Do you believe in Territorial Spirits?

[Andrewn]

All definitions are from Wikipedia:

Territorial spirits are national angels, or demons, who rule over certain geographical areas in the world, a concept accepted within the Charismatic movement, Pentecostal traditions, and Kingdom Now theology.

A tutelary deity or spirit is a guardian, patron, or protector of a particular place, geographic feature, person, lineage, nation, culture, or occupation. The etymology of "tutelary" expresses the concept of safety, and thus of guardianship.

In late Greek and Roman religion, one type of tutelary deity, the genius, functions as the personal deity or daimon of an individual from birth to death. Another form of personal tutelary spirit is the familiar spirit of European folklore.

The numinous spirits of places in Asia are still honored today in city pillar shrines, outdoor spirit houses and indoor household and business shrines.

Peter Wagner promotes "Strategic-Level Spiritual Warfare" (SLSW) which involves the practice of learning the names and assignments of demonic spirits as the first step to effective spiritual warfare. Opponents of this theological construct, and associated beliefs in "spiritual warfare", point out that while the Bible may describe some form of demonic control over geography, it does not prescribe many of the behaviors and teachings that proponents advocate in response.

What is your opinion?

Territorial spirit - Wikipedia

 

[thecolorsblend]

It would be an effective way of dividing up one's resources.

 

[Dan1988]

All definitions are from Wikipedia:

Territorial spirits are national angels, or demons, who rule over certain geographical areas in the world, a concept accepted within the Charismatic movement, Pentecostal traditions, and Kingdom Now theology.

A tutelary deity or spirit is a guardian, patron, or protector of a particular place, geographic feature, person, lineage, nation, culture, or occupation. The etymology of "tutelary" expresses the concept of safety, and thus of guardianship.

In late Greek and Roman religion, one type of tutelary deity, the genius, functions as the personal deity or daimon of an individual from birth to death. Another form of personal tutelary spirit is the familiar spirit of European folklore.

The numinous spirits of places in Asia are still honored today in city pillar shrines, outdoor spirit houses and indoor household and business shrines.

Peter Wagner promotes "Strategic-Level Spiritual Warfare" (SLSW) which involves the practice of learning the names and assignments of demonic spirits as the first step to effective spiritual warfare. Opponents of this theological construct, and associated beliefs in "spiritual warfare", point out that while the Bible may describe some form of demonic control over geography, it does not prescribe many of the behaviors and teachings that proponents advocate in response.

What is your opinion?

Territorial spirit - Wikipedia

Peter Wagner's SLSW is certainly not the first step to effective spiritual warfare. The Word of God tells us otherwise.
We don't have any power to battle against spirits, as they are super strong and we are super weak so there's no contest since we would lose every single fight hands down.

The spiritual war is not for us weaklings, it's between Angels and Demons. We're just the pawns in the battle.

There are Angels and Demons fighting all around us, we don't know how many are in the world but we do know it's a very large number. Both angels and Demons can and do manifest themselves into visible physical forms. I've had painful physical encounters with them on several occasions, so I know how powerful they are.

The powers of darkness never rest, they're trying to destroy mankind in every conceivable way. Their main attack is aimed at the truth of the gospel, they will do anything to stop people from believing the gospel.

Demons can't posses a believer, but they do oppress believers and put all kinds of stumbling blocks in their path.

Satan and his demons are very well organised, they do have their assigned durastrictions where they cause death, disease, war, hatred and destruction. Our only defense against Demons, is the Word of God so we need to learn what God has revealed to us about Demons, Angels and ourselves.

The Archangel Michael, faught Satan for 3 weeks straight and couldn't defeat him so He had to ask God to rebuke him. We know that one Angel killed 186,000 Assyrian soldiers, in one night so what chance does a mortal man have against Angels and Demons? All we can do is use God's Word against them and they must obey it, since it is the most powerful thing in the universe.

 

[Richard T]

Peter Wagner's SLSW is certainly not the first step to effective spiritual warfare. The Word of God tells us otherwise.
We don't have any power to battle against spirits, as they are super strong and we are super weak so there's no contest since we would lose every single fight hands down.

The spiritual war is not for us weaklings, it's between Angels and Demons. We're just the pawns in the battle.

There are Angels and Demons fighting all around us, we don't know how many are in the world but we do know it's a very large number. Both angels and Demons can and do manifest themselves into visible physical forms. I've had painful physical encounters with them on several occasions, so I know how powerful they are.

The powers of darkness never rest, they're trying to destroy mankind in every conceivable way. Their main attack is aimed at the truth of the gospel, they will do anything to stop people from believing the gospel.

Demons can't posses a believer, but they do oppress believers and put all kinds of stumbling blocks in their path.

Satan and his demons are very well organised, they do have their assigned durastrictions where they cause death, disease, war, hatred and destruction. Our only defense against Demons, is the Word of God so we need to learn what God has revealed to us about Demons, Angels and ourselves.

The Archangel Michael, faught Satan for 3 weeks straight and couldn't defeat him so He had to ask God to rebuke him. We know that one Angel killed 186,000 Assyrian soldiers, in one night so what chance does a mortal man have against Angels and Demons? All we can do is use God's Word against them and they must obey it, since it is the most powerful thing in the universe.

Humans are no longer pawns as we became heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus. Hebrews 1:13-14 (KJV)
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Now many might question how much we can order angels around. The other day I saw in a facebook group someone ordering angels to bring money to people. I admit, I had to chuckle on that one.
However, if by faith, we are doing what we see our Father in heaven doing, we can expect the angels will enforce God's will on a situation. Thus, while we can not indiscriminately order angels around, if we are praying God's will, in faith, we can expect results.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What is your opinion?

Humans mostly, (witches quite often) it's a convenient theology giving them license to attack people's minds indirectly.

These "territories" are the original domains of Adam.

 

[Francis Drake]

Peter Wagner's SLSW is certainly not the first step to effective spiritual warfare. The Word of God tells us otherwise.
We don't have any power to battle against spirits, as they are super strong and we are super weak so there's no contest since we would lose every single fight hands down.

If you believe that as a Christian, you are super weak, then you will certainly receive what you have faith for, weakness!
And in that condition, yes there is no contest.

The spiritual war is not for us weaklings, it's between Angels and Demons. We're just the pawns in the battle.

According to Jesus, he cast demons out, not by his own strength, but by the Spirit of God!
And that is how we cast them out, not by our strength, but by the Spirit of God. -
Matt12v28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Demons can't posses a believer, but they do oppress believers and put all kinds of stumbling blocks in their path.

I have been casting demons out of Christians for over 40 years, and I can assure you that Christians can have demons dwelling within them.

 

[Francis Drake]

Yes, having brought them down on occasion, there are certainly territorial demons.

 

[Dan1988]

Humans are no longer pawns as we became heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus. Hebrews 1:13-14 (KJV)
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Now many might question how much we can order angels around. The other day I saw in a facebook group someone ordering angels to bring money to people. I admit, I had to chuckle on that one.
However, if by faith, we are doing what we see our Father in heaven doing, we can expect the angels will enforce God's will on a situation. Thus, while we can not indiscriminately order angels around, if we are praying God's will, in faith, we can expect results.

Believers will become joint-heirs with Jesus at the appointed time. But until then no man has any power to order spirits to do anything, since they are thousands of times more powerful than we are. We saw what happened to those poor weaklings in the Bible who attempted to order Demons around, they were all overpowered and beaten up badly and they ran for their lives naked.

The Demons said, Jesus we know and Paul we know but who do you think you are. They then proceeded to beat the crap out of them, and stripped them naked.

Jesus gave His Disciples authority to cast out Demons, but He never gave that authority to anyone else. Nobody has ever had that authority since then, so we should never engage them in any battle because they will always overpower us and beat us up and even kill us.

 

[Dan1988]

If you believe that as a Christian, you are super weak, then you will certainly receive what you have faith for, weakness!
And in that condition, yes there is no contest.

According to Jesus, he cast demons out, not by his own strength, but by the Spirit of God!
And that is how we cast them out, not by our strength, but by the Spirit of God. -
Matt12v28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

I have been casting demons out of Christians for over 40 years, and I can assure you that Christians can have demons dwelling within them.

My Bible tells me otherwise, it tells me that we are very weak and powerless against Demons. It also tells me that we can't cast them out in any way shape or form. We are not Jesus or His Apostles, they were the only ones with that authority so I know that you never cast out a single Demon in your life.
The Bible teaches us to run from them and not engage them in any way, because they will destroy us every single time. The only way a Demon possessed person can be set free, is if the holy Spirit indwells that person in which case the Demon must flee.

Whoever claims to be a believer and also claims to be Demon possessed, is a liar since the Holy Spirit can not cohabit with a Demon. The two are enemies, so they will never cohabit in the same person. I hope this biblical truth makes sense to you.

 

[Richard T]

Believers will become joint-heirs with Jesus at the appointed time. But until then no man has any power to order spirits to do anything, since they are thousands of times more powerful than we are. We saw what happened to those poor weaklings in the Bible who attempted to order Demons around, they were all overpowered and beaten up badly and they ran for their lives naked.

The Demons said, Jesus we know and Paul we know but who do you think you are. They then proceeded to beat the crap out of them, and stripped them naked.

Jesus gave His Disciples authority to cast out Demons, but He never gave that authority to anyone else. Nobody has ever had that authority since then, so we should never engage them in any battle because they will always overpower us and beat us up and even kill us.

I appreciate your views but I believe devils can be cast out by believers who have faith. I have seen this many times. These scriptures would imply this. I think the debate on this would center on cessation. A believer of himself has no power, but we have authority to use the name of Jesus and if we do this according to His will and have faith, the results give glory to God.
John 14:12-14 (KJV)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

As to being a joint heir with Jesus, If you are led of the spirit you are a child of God. If you are a child of God then you are a joint heir. Notice too that in this position we will suffer. So it would seem that is the position we hold now.
Romans 8:14-17 (KJV)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 

[Dan1988]

I appreciate your views but I believe devils can be cast out by believers who have faith. I have seen this many times. These scriptures would imply this. I think the debate on this would center on cessation. A believer of himself has no power, but we have authority to use the name of Jesus and if we do this according to His will and have faith, the results give glory to God.
John 14:12-14 (KJV)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

As to being a joint heir with Jesus, If you are led of the spirit you are a child of God. If you are a child of God then you are a joint heir. Notice too that in this position we will suffer. So it would seem that is the position we hold now.
Romans 8:14-17 (KJV)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Amen brother, you summed it up very well.
I was trying to point out that we don't have any power over spirits, but God has all power over them. So when it comes to casting out Demons it can only be done by the Lord, when we call upon Him to do so in faith.
We can command unclean spirits to leave, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. So we don't appeal to our own power or authority, but we are entirely dependant on Christ to cast them out.

I'm not sure if it's possible to cast them out of unbelievers. My understanding is, the possessed person must believe as well as the exorcist for a successful exorcism. I know of a case where a Catholic priest attempted to expel a demon out of a lady, and he was physically attacked by the demon and he ran out of the house and refused to have any further involvement.

I personally believe that both the priest and the possessed lady were unbelievers, so that's why their efforts were in vein.

 

[Radagast]

We don't have any power to battle against spirits

Ephesians 6:12 says differently: "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."

 

[Francis Drake]

My Bible tells me otherwise, it tells me that we are very weak and powerless against Demons.

Prove it from scripture as the bible says no such thing!

It also tells me that we can't cast them out in any way shape or form. We are not Jesus or His Apostles, they were the only ones with that authority so I know that you never cast out a single Demon in your life.

You are directly contradicting what Jesus said.
Mark16v17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Did you read that, "...these signs will follow all those who believe," ie. Not just the apostles!
All faithful believers have the power to drive demons out.

The Bible teaches us to run from them and not engage them in any way, because they will destroy us every single time.

Give one single scripture that tells us to run from the devil or demons!

The only way a Demon possessed person can be set free, is if the holy Spirit indwells that person in which case the Demon must flee.

If what you are saying is true, then all the stories of casting demons out in the bible must be fake, and Jesus's above command in Mark16v17 a total nonsense. If deliverance from demons is automatic on conversion, then there would be no need for deliverance in the NT stories.

In 40 years experience of doing it, the only people I have ever driven demons out of are spirit filled Christians (including myself). To cast demons out of unbelievers is foolhardy because, as Jesus said, the demons can return and take up residence again bringing seven more wicked demons with him.
ie. Deliverance from demons is aimed at believers, not unbelievers!

Whoever claims to be a believer and also claims to be Demon possessed, is a liar since the Holy Spirit can not cohabit with a Demon. The two are enemies, so they will never cohabit in the same person. I hope this biblical truth makes sense to you.

The notion that believers cannot have demons is in itself a "doctrine of demons". It's one of the best ploys Satan created to ensure his demonic servants can retain power in the church. In constantly pushing this lie, you are serving Satan.

 

[Bobber]

Peter Wagner's SLSW is certainly not the first step to effective spiritual warfare. The Word of God tells us otherwise.
We don't have any power to battle against spirits, as they are super strong and we are super weak so there's no contest since we would lose every single fight hands down.

The spiritual war is not for us weaklings, it's between Angels and Demons. We're just the pawns in the battle.

Us weaklings as you call us ARE In Christ Jesus and we've been given the Name of Jesus and the blood of the lamb. God gave us the Name of Jesus to use in declaration and in prayer to see desired results. We're also called to be people in true and genuine relationship and fellowship with the Spirit of God and being such we are called to be in the spiritual war by using the authority given to us of God.

Demons can't posses a believer, but they do oppress believers and put all kinds of stumbling blocks in their path.

There's a difference between the spirit of Man and his physical body though. I believe one can have a demon lodged in they physical aspect of their being and might need to be cast out but that technically doesn't mean it was in their spirit. But this question has been asked for years....can one a Christian have a demon. I think the main thing is stop that person from being demonized and that is by taking authority over that spirit or those spirits in the Name of Jesus! But then they need to allow and maintain their spirit to be filled and much saturated with the word of God. The LIFE and LIGHT of God in a vessel will drive back and push back the forces of darkness continually and that's something each one must maintain.

 

[Andrewn]

I appreciate the discussion about casting out demons from people. But, getting back to Territorial Spirits, this belief is based on 3 verses in the OT:

Deu 32:8 When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when He separated the sons of man,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9 For the Lord’s portion is His people;
Jacob is the allotment of His inheritance.

The "sons of God" is taken to mean Territorial spirits that governed certain locations or peoples.

Psa 82:1 God stands among the divine council;
He renders judgment among the gods.

Again, the gods / divine council are understood to be Territorial spirits that governed certain locations or peoples.

Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me for twenty-one days. So Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.

Again, the prince (Archon) of Persia is understood to be the Territorial spirit of Persia and / or the Persians.

So, this is the Biblical basis for the belief in Territorial Spirits. The question is are they still active as some Pentecostals and Asian Pagans believe?

In the NT we read the following:

Col 2:15 And having disarmed rulers (arche) and powers (exousia), He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them by the cross.

And also,

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness to be kept for judgment;

So, the question is: Did the Lord Jesus conquer the Territorial Spirits to allow the spread of the Gospel, or do they still have authority?

 

[Francis Drake]

Believers will become joint-heirs with Jesus at the appointed time. But until then no man has any power to order spirits to do anything, since they are thousands of times more powerful than we are.

Your interpretation of scripture is very sloppy, otherwise you would know you are already a joint heir with Christ.
If we are born again, then we are also God's children, and therefore also heirs. The two go together.-
Rom8v16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ— if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

We saw what happened to those poor weaklings in the Bible who attempted to order Demons around, they were all overpowered and beaten up badly and they ran for their lives naked.

Another sloppy interpretation of scripture.
The sons of Sceva were not believers, so hardly surprising the demons reacted.

The Demons said, Jesus we know and Paul we know but who do you think you are. They then proceeded to beat the crap out of them, and stripped them naked.

Serves them right, trying to fight demons in their own strength.

Jesus gave His Disciples authority to cast out Demons, but He never gave that authority to anyone else. Nobody has ever had that authority since then, so we should never engage them in any battle because they will always overpower us and beat us up and even kill us.

Yet more sloppy interpretation. Show us one verse that says nobody has authority over demons since the apostles!
In Mark16, Jesus says otherwise.
In the last 40 years have driven countless demons out. Among other things, the results being greater spiritual freedom and greater peace, the removal of fear, freedom from controlling sins etc.

 

[Dan1988]

Ephesians 6:12 says differently: "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."

Exactly right, we have no power against the spiritual forces in heavenly places. This is why Christ had to come into the world and defeat the powers of darkness, on our behalf.
God graciously gives His people the protection they need, because He knows we are powerless against them.

So Paul warns us to put on the whole armour of God, to defend ourselves. So we are still powerless against them, all we can do is use the armour that God has given us to defend ourselves.
Some folks seem to get defense and victory mixed up, we never win in this life. We just spend our lives on the receiving end of the enemies attack, so we are still powerless against them.

We have no power to attack them or harm them in any way, but they would kill us in a split second if God removed His protective armour from us.

 

[Radagast]

Exactly right, we have no power against the spiritual forces in heavenly places. This is why Christ had to come into the world and defeat the powers of darkness, on our behalf.
God graciously gives His people the protection they need, because He knows we are powerless against them.

With Christ on our side, we are not powerless.

 

[Dan1988]

Prove it from scripture as the bible says no such thing!

You are directly contradicting what Jesus said.
Mark16v17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Did you read that, "...these signs will follow all those who believe," ie. Not just the apostles!
All faithful believers have the power to drive demons out.

Give one single scripture that tells us to run from the devil or demons!

If what you are saying is true, then all the stories of casting demons out in the bible must be fake, and Jesus's above command in Mark16v17 a total nonsense. If deliverance from demons is automatic on conversion, then there would be no need for deliverance in the NT stories.

In 40 years experience of doing it, the only people I have ever driven demons out of are spirit filled Christians (including myself). To cast demons out of unbelievers is foolhardy because, as Jesus said, the demons can return and take up residence again bringing seven more wicked demons with him.
ie. Deliverance from demons is aimed at believers, not unbelievers!

The notion that believers cannot have demons is in itself a "doctrine of demons". It's one of the best ploys Satan created to ensure his demonic servants can retain power in the church. In constantly pushing this lie, you are serving Satan.

My Bible tells me otherwise, so it all comes down to how we choose to interpret the Bible. That's why we have 40,000 Christian denominations, all claiming to posses the correct interpretation yet all disagree with each other.

So it's a case of each to his own, your welcome to interpret the Bible in any way that floats your boat. Just remember your one of the 40,000 so you could be dead wrong.

 

[Dan1988]

Us weaklings as you call us ARE In Christ Jesus and we've been given the Name of Jesus and the blood of the lamb. God gave us the Name of Jesus to use in declaration and in prayer to see desired results. We're also called to be people in true and genuine relationship and fellowship with the Spirit of God and being such we are called to be in the spiritual war by using the authority given to us of God.



There's a difference between the spirit of Man and his physical body though. I believe one can have a demon lodged in they physical aspect of their being and might need to be cast out but that technically doesn't mean it was in their spirit. But this question has been asked for years....can one a Christian have a demon. I think the main thing is stop that person from being demonized and that is by taking authority over that spirit or those spirits in the Name of Jesus! But then they need to allow and maintain their spirit to be filled and much saturated with the word of God. The LIFE and LIGHT of God in a vessel will drive back and push back the forces of darkness continually and that's something each one must maintain.

I don't mean to be rude, but you sound a bit like Simon the sorcerer in Acts 18:8 he asked the apostles to give him the power which Christ gave them.

Again I must stress, we have zero power against anything. We don't even have power over our own lusts and fleshy desires, so much less over any spirits.

Christ is the only One with all power, and if He didn't intercede for us and send Angels to fight against Demons we would be devoured in a split second.

I must also disagree with you regarding the Holy Spirit, fellowshiping with Demons. What fellowship has light and darkness. It's ludicrous to suggest that a person can be possessed by a Demon and the holy Spirit at the same time, I would go so far as to call that blasphemy.