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Featured Do you believe Christmas is pagan?

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by JohnB445, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I would be interested to know which ones you have in mind.
     
  2. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    Where does the Bible say not to celebrate the birth/coming of Christ? The angels celebrated his birth big time. The shepherds too. So did the wise men. Why do you think sticking with the Bible is NOT celebrating what all of Heaven did? Seems to me not celebrating is not sticking with the Bible.

    You know who didn’t celebrate? The enemies of God. They didn’t celebrate his birth but plotted how to end the joy.
     
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  3. Not David

    Not David Der Romisch Katechumene

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    Liturgy, instructions present in the Didache, Church organization.
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    OK. I thought you might be referring to doctrines. You know that all sorts of beliefs that are imposed upon the faithful are said to have been "handed down from the Apostles," etc. but in most cases it is really impossible to know if that is true or not.
     
  5. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    imho......Best answer yet. :oldthumbsup:
     
  6. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I think that it is natural to have days where we stop to remember the birth of Christ, whatever day we choose to do it, and the official day is Dec 25. It is the same as observing Good Friday and Easter Sunday to stop and remember the death and resurrection of Christ. I don't see anything wrong in that. Let the neo-pagans use those days to indulge in the flesh if they wish. What is that to us? We seek to follow Jesus, and that is all that matters.

    In fact, Jesus said that every time we sit down to eat and drink, we remember the Lord's death until He comes. The church has ritualised this as Eucharist, Communion, or the Lord's Supper, but I don't think that is what Jesus meant. I think He meant it more on an informal basis where we remember His death and resurrection every breakfast, Lunch and Dinner time. Because He said, "As often as you eat." This means that we are actively remembering that Jesus died for us on the cross and was raised to give us eternal life, every day of the week.

    If people don't do that on an informal basis, then the ceremonial and ritualised Eucharist, Communion, or observance of the Lord's Supper in church services mean nothing because it is done out of duty and not from the heart. If it was from the heart, then we would be remembering and thanking the Lord for dying for us every time we sit down to a meal.

    I said this to show that there is a difference between observing and celebrating the birth and death of Christ from the heart, and doing it out of a sense of duty, as a ritual, on a particular day.
     
  7. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    As I said, I don't take the books chosen by them. I accept and believe in the books inspired by God and written by his Apostles. I do not accept the books that are not of God still contained in the catholic bible.
     
  8. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    The Catholic church did not come out from God. The Church of God was founded on Christ and the Apostles and it's traditions were written down. What was spoken by word was also written in epistle both instances were the Apostles preaching the fullness of the doctrine Christ. Whether you heard it only by word(in person) or only by Epistle you were hearing the entity of Christ's Gospel. Those Epistles are what we have today, and they are the Entirety of the word preached by the Apostles.
     
  9. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Being persuaded that a sin is good does not make it so.

    We are to do nothing more in the remembrance of Christ than what was commanded. That is why he said do this in remembrance of me. Nothing more was given.
    1 Cor 11:23-25
    23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
    24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
    25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

    Luke 22:19
    19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

    No commandment was given to celebrate his birthday, and we see no righteous man in the bible celebrating it.
     
  10. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, some only heard by word and they heard the fullness. Others heard only by Epistle and they heard the fullness of the doctrine. And there were some that heard by both. In all cases they heard the fullness of the of the doctrine.
     
  11. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    You haven't persuaded me that it is a sin, sir. The Bible doesn't forbid celebrating the Lord's birthday. Prove to me it does and I will adhere to it. The shepherds celebrated the birth of the Messiah. The heavenly host celebrated it in Luke 2:13-14.
     
  12. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    The celebration of the Lord's birthday anniversary. Not found in Scripture, nor do we see any righteous man keeping any birthday anniversary let alone the Lord's. This would be one of many traditions not spoken of by the apostles.

    They do in fact tell us how to baptize and I can show you where if you would like.
     
  13. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    My question is, why are you so vehement about a matter such as this? Do you feel it is your solemn duty to burden others with legalism such as this, to threaten them in such a way as to say they are sinning by celebrating the birthday of the Lord God? Are God's people not really God's people for celebrating him? What is your motivation?
     
  14. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    That was the exact day, not the birthday anniversary which is what we are speaking of. Unless the Lord is born again each year(which I would be interested to hear why one would think that), then what we are discussing is the keeping of his birthday anniversary which falls under a Pagan practice that was never kept by any righteous man in the bible. Only by Pagans.
     
  15. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    It is our duty to correct our brethren when we see them in sin. Calling that which is ungodly good is definitely a sin. I would say the same to a man who believed killing was okay, or lying was okay, or baptizing infants saved someone.

    We are judged by our fruits if those fruits are unrighteous then we are not of God. Keeping ungodly practices would fall under bad fruit(sin).

    My motivation is to help guide those who do not know or do not understand the truth away from darkness and back to the light of God. That should be everyone's motivation if they be of God.
     
  16. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    That's a fair point.
     
  17. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    If it’s not recorded that the apostles did it, they didn’t hand it down IMHO.
     
  18. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    The marriage ceremony is steeped in paganism and I’ve never heard a single anti-christmas person preach against weddings. I think it’s something against the Christ himself that’s the problem.
     
  19. Dorothy Mae

    Dorothy Mae Well-Known Member

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    I personally would not surrender the celebration of the coming of Christ for those who dislike celebrating his coming. That they’ve been robbed of the celebration doesn’t mean I need be also so robbed.

    It’s generally the JWs who dislike Christmas who would have everyone robbed of all national and otherwise holidays leaving only working days, 6 days a week, 52 weeks in the year. Hummm all labor and no national days where everyone is off work to be together as a family. Now who hates families and celebrations in love in the spiritual realms?
     
  20. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    I preach against the Paganism present in today's weddings as often as the subject comes up, as did the ministers who taught me, as did the Apostles who preached against keeping Pagan customs.

    Would you like to discuss what is wrong with the Pagan customs in today's wedding ceremonies?
     
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