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Do you all accept biblical inerrancy/infallibility and why?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by cloudyday2, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am not a Hebrew or Greek scholar. I rely on those who are for help with understanding. Mostly, the Bible is a reasonable translation. I do not like the versions that try to interpret by the "what it means. not what it says" method. So I read them all quite often. Some of the discussions about meanings are pointless. I get caught up from time to time. I kick myself for the time waste later.
     
  2. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank God that testament has been erased by the precious blood of Christ. And not all Christians have failed. That is why the church still exists after 2,000 years. If the Lord Jesus can fail, so can His church. He promised to build the church and the gates of hell will crumble before her.

    Don't confuse the dead religious structures with the church. The real Church is Christ's body, not the man made constructs that call itself church.
     
  3. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Good points

    I like this statement from Dr Cooper
    “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”
    –Dr. David L. Cooper
     
  4. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    That would be 'I have gotten a man Jehovah' would it not. There is no punctuation in Hebrew.
     
  5. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    .
     
  6. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    I would never confuse the institution and it's theology with the true church which is people who only serve the truth of God and not man. No not all have failed but Christians are no better, if not worse than the Hebrew people whose failures to do and put the will of God first, are recorded. Such is the way of all man.
     
  7. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Are you seriously trying to convince Christians that they should question their faith because non-christian religious texts say something different than the Bible? That's silliness in the extreme.
     
  8. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In the Bible it is important to go back to the beginning. The dry bones has to do with the resurrection of Israel: "Then he said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.'". Moses in Genesis talks about Israel then later on the prophet talks about how this story applies to his descendants. The story of the resurrection actually goes back to Abraham and his son Issac. "Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and in a sense, he did receive Isaac back from death." (Hebrew 11:19) Israel is the son of Isaac. So this shows us that not only would Isaac be raised up from the dead at the resurrection but also his descendants. We all need the resurrection power of God working in us. Not just Isaac and Israel and their descendants. Even though as gentiles we are actually adopted into the family of Abraham.

    The people of Israel were NOT cut off as they feared. God was faithful to the covenant that He made with Abraham and Abraham's descendants. Israel was the grandson of Abraham. Moses begins the story of Israel and then we can see how this story develops over time. We can see the redemption of not only Israel but his descendants also. "I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you". (Genesis 17:7) Clearly God kept this promise in the story of the dry bones. Even though Israel feared that they were: "cut off".
     
  9. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are being too harsh. Christians are born again. There is nothing wrong or lacking in the life of Christ in each born again Christian. God no longer considers the old nature of a believer. If we are born again, we are dead and our lives are hidden in Christ with God. Yes, Christians sin. But when we face the Lord Jesus it will be as righteous saints. Our dead works will be consumed and there will be no record of sin or failure. The Church is victorious and overcoming. There is no history of sin because God has erased it.
     
  10. AvisG

    AvisG Active Member Supporter

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    I had thought about starting a thread on this very topic but realized it would be an exercise in futility. From those who answer yes to your first question, you're going to get mostly some species of circular reasoning or one of 3-4 trite answers out of the Inerrancy/Infallibility Apologetics Playbook.

    Moreover, there are so many different understandings of "inerrancy" and "infallibility" that the question becomes almost meaningless. Two believers who claim to accept inerrancy and infallibility may have wildly different understandings.

    Like so many things, answering yes becomes almost some sort of litmus test. "Yes, as a good Christian, of course I believe in inerrancy and infallibility, even if I have no idea of what I mean by that."

    A more narrowly focused question would be "Do you accept the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy?" The Chicago Statement, set forth below, is a good example of an extreme position on inerrancy. In paragraph 3, you'll note, it says that the Holy Spirit "authenticates" the Bible to us. That's probably the best answer that someone who adheres to infallibility and inerrancy could give.

    1. God, who is Himself Truth and speaks truth only, has inspired Holy Scripture in order thereby to reveal Himself to lost mankind through Jesus Christ as Creator and Lord, Redeemer and Judge. Holy Scripture is God's witness to Himself.

    2. Holy Scripture, being God's own Word, written by men prepared and superintended by His Spirit, is of infallible divine authority in all matters upon which it touches: it is to be believed, as God's instruction, in all that it affirms, obeyed, as God's command, in all that it requires; embraced, as God's pledge, in all that it promises.

    3. The Holy Spirit, Scripture's divine Author, both authenticates it to us by His inward witness and opens our minds to understand its meaning.

    4. Being wholly and verbally God-given, Scripture is without error or fault in all its teaching, no less in what it states about God's acts in creation, about the events of world history, and about its own literary origins under God, than in its witness to God's saving grace in individual lives.

    5. The authority of Scripture is inescapably impaired if this total divine inerrancy is in any way limited or disregarded, or made relative to a view of truth contrary to the Bible's own; and such lapses bring serious loss to both the individual and the Church.​
     
  11. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    No, I am highlighting the role of the Bible as a standard of orthodoxy, and I am asking why Christians (especially Protestants) accept the Bible in this role. The Bible is an anthology created gradually over many centuries by a religious culture that was constantly evolving.
     
  12. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    I was also apprehensive about starting this discussion, because some of the Christians CF members are incredibly closed in their thinking and seemingly afraid to question their beliefs. However, there are hopefully plenty of others who will post some interesting thoughts on the issue. (There are already some interesting thoughts that have been posted IMO.)
     
  13. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Which is just another way of saying what I just said, lol. Good luck with that.
     
  14. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    If your really interested in the topic I would recommend spending a 25 min or so and listen to Michael Heiser.




    I bring him up because of he is an expert at really delving into the aspects of the Bible as far as being a product of Middle Eastern literary genres, that is full of archaic expressions, tropes, idioms and so on.

    I believe in the inspiration of scripture but it understood in the context of a culture that is really alien and different than the one that we currently have.
     
  15. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    I read one of his books, so I am familiar with some of Heiser's views. I don't think he is a good writer, but there are some interesting ideas. I'm not sure what you think of his writing, but I think he should hire a ghost writer for his books.
     
  16. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    Let me quote what you wrote:
    "Are you seriously trying to convince Christians that they should question their faith because non-christian religious texts say something different than the Bible?"

    I am proposing that Christianity should be a living religion where each human uses his/her direct access to God to determine if God exists, who he is, what he wants from humans, etc. I am not recommending the use of non-Christian religious texts.
     
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  17. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    No.
    He knew, likely , the practices /religious texts of his culture,
    and tested them and found them false.
    He heard the Voice of Yahuweh and believed Him, and found all that He Said True.
     
  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Do you remember what you had for lunch 44 days ago?


    :)
     
  19. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Really? Let me quote what YOU wrote:

    Those texts you claim Abram should have tested against are not the Bible, they aren't even claiming to be the same god by a long stretch. So we don't have the whole Bible at this time, I know that, but you are clearly implying we should consider theological texts or ideas simply because they are culturally relevant even if they have nothing in common with the Bible we do have now. Which the Bible explicitly says NOT to do.

    So it appears you're saying in order to be good Christians we should do what the Bible tells us NOT to do and test the Bible against things not in the Bible to confirm we should do what the Bible tells us to do.

    Again implying that what Christians normally consider heretical should be considered to potentially have value. This just is not how faith works at all. Not even close.
     
  20. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    The point of imagining you are Abram is to realize that if Abram had behaved like many modern Christians then he would have rejected the voice of God because it disagreed with the prevailing religious texts of his culture. When you make a religious text the standard of orthodoxy then you exclude insights that God might give to extend the theology in the future.

    BTW, the saving grace for the Bible as a standard of orthodoxy is the Bible's ambiguity and incompleteness. If the Bible was truly unambiguous and comprehensive then Christianity would never change, but obviously Christianity has been changing over the centuries and will continue to change.
     
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