Do "works of righteousness" declare the Atonement to be incomplete?

[LoveGodsWord]

See posts #638 and #639.

They are not my posts you are quoting from are they?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Romans 5:7-9
Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

First I would politely like to point out that salvation is not a reward. Second it is definitely not a reward for doing evil. It is God’s free gift given to us by having faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There it is again LGW. I asked:
"So, we are justified by keeping the law?"

When we read Paul say in Galatians 5:4, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace," we have to read that with the context (Which is a reference to "Circumcision Salvationism").

How so?

Well, it says in the two verses just above verse 4:

2 "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law."
(Galatians 5:2-3).

Which Law?
The Old Law because circumcision is only a part of the Old Law and it was not a command given to us by Jesus and His followers. So Paul is talking about the Old Law and not all law.

 

[Saint Steven]

I am not following your conversation with Jason brother daydreamer40, and to be honest I am not interested. If you have somethnig to share in relation to the OP I think everyone would be better off don't you think? I asked Jason directly what he believes he answered me. That is enough for me. It was not what you were accusing him of. Is it possible you have a misunderstanding?

We proved you were wrong. You owe daydreamer40 an apology. Man up!

 

[Saint Steven]

We are only saved by grace through faith alone. It is a gift of God and not of works lest anyman should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. If your faith does not have the fruit of OBEDIENCE however your tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 7:17-22 because your faith does not work by LOVE to fulfill God's LAW *ROMANS 13:8-10 and is dead *JAMES 2:18-20.

Hope this helps

Apology forthcoming?

 

[Saint Steven]

See posts #638 and #639.

Apology fifthcoming?

 

[Saint Steven]

We are only saved by grace through faith alone. It is a gift of God and not of works lest anyman should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. If your faith does not have the fruit of OBEDIENCE however your tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 7:17-22 because your faith does not work by LOVE to fulfill God's LAW *ROMANS 13:8-10 and is dead *JAMES 2:18-20.

Hope this helps

Apology sixthcoming?

 

[Saint Steven]

First I would politely like to point out that salvation is not a reward. Second it is definitely not a reward for doing evil. It is God’s free gift given to us by having faith.

Fair enough, I was making a point by contrast.

 

[Saint Steven]

When we read Paul say in Galatians 5:4, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace," we have read that with the context that it is referring to "Circumcision Salvationism."

How so?

Well, it says in the two verses just above verse 4:

2 "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law."
(Galatians 5:2-3).

Which Law?
The Old Law because circumcision is only a part of the Old Law and it was not a command given to us by Jesus and His followers. So Paul is talking about the Old Law and not all law.

"Paul is talking about the Old Law and not all law." - Jason0047
What does that mean?

He is talking about the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. The 613 laws of Moses. Including the Ten Commandments.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We proved you were wrong. You owe daydreamer40 an apology. Man up!

Sorry you proved me wrong about what again? Please stop making things up. Thanks

 

[Saint Steven]

Sorry you proved me wrong about what again? Please stop making things up. Thanks

Jason0047 said we are justified by keeping the law.
You said: "Hello daydreamer40, who is saying here that they believe they are justified by keeping the LAW? I find this statement quite puzzling and believe it to be another false statement."

See your post #557 and #561 on this topic.
Then see posts #638 and #639.

Or ask @daydreamer40

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jason0047 said we are justified by keeping the law.
You said: "Hello daydreamer40, who is saying here that they believe they are justified by keeping the LAW? I find this statement quite puzzling and believe it to be another false statement."

See your post #557 and #561 on this topic.
Then see posts #638 and #639.

Or ask @daydreamer40

Please do not half quote me to make it sound as if I am saying something I am not.

LGW wrote: Hello daydreamer40, who is saying here that they believe they are justified by keeping the LAW? I find this statement quite puzzling and believe it to be another false statement. Could you please state who is teaching that we are justified by obeying God's LAW and post the link? If you cannot post a link why are you making statements that no one is saying? Is this being honest and telling the truth?

(from Post # 557 linked).

Honestly why make drama here? I asked him to prove his claims otherwise it is false accusations. There is a difference to what you are posting here brother. Making accusations without proving them is a false claim.

Also, I asked Jason directly what he believes and he told me. It was not what he was being accused of. Maybe you misunderstood what he wrote?

Anyhow I think it looks like daydreamer40, has been banned for whatever reason. (nothing to do with me BTW).

I think it would benefit everyone if we would stop discussing people and address the posts and scriptures in them would be best I think, don't you?

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"Paul is talking about the Old Law and not all law." - Jason0047
What does that mean?

He is talking about the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. The 613 laws of Moses. Including the Ten Commandments.

The whole of an old contract can be done away with and yet some of the old things within that contract can be repeated in a new contract with the old contract passing away. For example: If Billy-bob made up a contract to sell you a house, he could destroy that contract before giving it to you, and then make you a new contract (because he did not like the old one). But does that mean that there were some things in that contract that remained the same between the old and the new contracts? No. It simply means that the old contract has been done away with and the new contract has been made. It is illogical to discard the new contract just because you point out similarities between the two contracts (with you knowing the old contract is done away with).

 

[Saint Steven]

The whole of an old contract can be done away with and yet some of the old things within that contract can be repeated in a new contract with the old contract passing away. For example: If Billy-bob made up a contract to sell you a house, he could destroy that contract before giving it to you, and then make you a new contract (because he did not like the old one). But does that mean that there were some things in that contract that remained the same between the old and the new contracts? No. It simply means that the old contract has been done away with and the new contract has been made. It is illogical to point to similarities between contracts as proof that the old contract is entirely in effect as a whole (When the old contract has been done away with).

Goodbye to the law then. Hooray! (good riddance)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Goodbye to the law then. Hooray! (good riddance)

I don't think you understood what I wrote. The old contract had it's own laws. Those laws according to that contract are no more. But the new contract has it's own laws (and it may even repeat some of the laws from the old one). It is illogical to discard the new contract just because you point out similarities between the two contracts (with you knowing that the old contract is now gone). You cannot say that the new contract is also irrelevant because it is too similar to the old one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul's point about the bringing up the law was in view of the Old Law because he was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism." The sooner you realize that fact, the quicker you will begin to realize that Paul was not throwing away all forms of God's laws. In Romans 8:3-4 we are to fulfill the righteous aspect (or part) of the Law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (sin). This righteous aspect of the law is loving your neighbor (Which is the equivalent of the Moral Law - See Romans 13:8-10). For he that loves another fulfills the Law (Romans 13:8).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Goodbye to the law then. Hooray! (good riddance)

When Paul condemns the Law, he is referring to the Old Law (old contract) and not the New Law (new contract). For Romans 7:6 says we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

The oldness of the letter is the Law of Moses and not the commands from Jesus Christ and His followers. In fact, here is New Testament proof that believers are still under God's laws (i.e. God's laws according to the new contract or New Covenant):

#1. There is the command (Law) to believe on Jesus Christ (1 John 3:23). Are you not under this law in regards to salvation?

#2. There is the Law of Faith (Romans 3:27). We are saved by God's grace through faith (See Ephesians 2:8-9). No faith and there is no grace.

#3. God commands all men to repent (Acts of the Apostles 17:30). Jesus says, "except you repent, you shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3).

#4. There is Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Keeping this New Covenant Law makes us free from the Law of Sin and Death (i.e. the Old Law). Please read Romans 8:2. Do you want to be free from the Law of sin and death (i.e. the Old Law)? Then you have to obey this particular New Covenant Law in Romans 8:2 to do it. We have to be free from the Old Law, because Paul says if we seek to be justified by the Law (i.e. the Old Law), we have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).


Side Note:

Before you said that a "belief" was not the same thing as a "work." Yet, Jesus believes that having a "belief" is a "work of God."

28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
(John 6:28-29).​

Jesus says in verse 29, "This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom He has sent."

This means you are saved by a work because Jesus regards the "work of God" as being defined as to: "believe on Him."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is a long article. I will not promise to read it. Can you give a summary definition. I am not looking for "proofs" but will gladly discuss the matter if that is what you want to do.

Conditional Salvation or Conditional Security is saying that there are conditions that have to be met by us in relation to our salvation. Unconditional Election is the belief that there are no conditions that need to be met in order to be saved. God simply chooses to regenerate some to be saved and others to not be saved.

True faith is very thing that decides the difference between the true member of the body of Christ vs. the sinner (who desires to do their own thing). For if there was no faith needed for men to be saved, then God’s grace would unconditionally save all of mankind. However, Scripture says we are saved by God’s grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). This faith not only includes a belief in Jesus as one's Savior (particularly in receiving salvation), but it also includes the “synergistic” (cooperative work of faith) by obeying the commands of the Lord in the New Testament. A believer is conditionally saved based upon whether or not they have the right kind of faith. This faith is not static and just a one time event, but this faith is active and it is the kind of thing that continues on for the entire life of the believer.

If a believer stops living out their faith after coming to Christ for salvation, then they stopped meeting the conditions of faith, and as a result, they would fall back into an unsaved state again. Hence, the phrase: "Conditional Salvation."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We have to pray for them and love them as best as we can. But yeah, I believe even if there were no verses that could be bent from their perspective, there would still be people like that who would believe that way still (because people like their sin and yet they also want the comfort that there is a God, too). In short, they want the best of both worlds. But it doesn't work like that (as I am sure you know). But we should pray. Pray deeply and fast for them.

Well I do pray for them and am deeply sorry for what’s coming to them. Thanks for the good post.

 

[GingerBeer]

Conditional Salvation or Conditional Security is saying that there are conditions that have to be met by us in relation to our salvation. Unconditional Election is the belief that there are no conditions that need to be met in order to be saved. God simply chooses to regenerate some to be saved and others to not be saved.

True faith is very thing that decides the difference between the true member of the body of Christ vs. the sinner (who desires to do their own thing). For if there was no faith needed for men to be saved, then God’s grace would unconditionally save all of mankind. However, Scripture says we are saved by God’s grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). This faith not only includes a belief in Jesus as one's Savior (particularly in receiving salvation), but it also includes the “synergistic” (cooperative work of faith) by obeying the commands of the Lord in the New Testament. A believer is conditionally saved based upon whether or not they have the right kind of faith. This faith is not static and just a one time event, but this faith is active and it is the kind of thing that continues on for the entire life of the believer.

If a believer stops living out their faith after coming to Christ for salvation, then they stopped meeting the conditions of faith, and as a result, they would fall back into an unsaved state again. Hence, the phrase: "Conditional Salvation."

May I know why you thought I held an unconditional salvation view?