Do women really come back?

dbhost

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All I can say is I have been in your shoes, and watched as my ex moved on before she left my door. If there is a third party involved that isn't God, chances are NOT good that she will repent. You mentioned she is in the world, as in not a believer. The good part there is you aren't bound to her if she leaves. The bad part is that is on a moral level. There are physical and psychological aspects of a marriage that will take you plenty of time to get over.

Some women do come back, but have trashed things so bad, or are only half heartedly coming back that trust is completely gone. Without trust, there really can't be a marriage...

And lastly, and this is the one I am praying for for you... there are those that God touches, that come back changed, broken, and surrendered to God's will.

May your wife give herself to God's will, and may you have peace if she doesn't...
 
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I was in my DivorceCare support group at my church this past Thursday. One of the new members asked a question. This member was a mirror of my situation and well 4 of the other 7 members. Do wives who left really come back? Their wives gave them the same ILYBNILWY(I love you but not in love with you speech) out of the blue and velocity of the wife instigated divorce was dizzying after that. Our DivorceCare counselor offered us sobering stats that 80% of marriages are instigated by the woman and that in his 5 years and seeing dozens upon dozens of men where the wife left he has yet to see one come back and reconcile. I am hoping in my situation I can be the one, and I have done the work on myself, prayed till my knees bled and cried an awfully a lot but my wives attitude has not changed enough to reconcile. She is still in the world, happy to be unyoked form the marriages, dates, goes out with her friends and seems to be happy. I just can't see her changing her mind but are waiting for God's opportunity to soften her heart if she wants to. I watched Fireproof and well cried much of the last third of it.


Man, I am really sorry to hear what you are going through. I've been there. While I haven't been divorced, when I was living a secular lifestyle, I had a live in girlfriend who cheated on me after 7 years together. I never saw it coming and it hit me like a ton of bricks, especially because I caught them in the act, I suppose. So while I haven't been through the hell of divorce, I have been through the hell of being in a long term relationship that you were in that you thought would last forever end suddenly and just blindside you and destroy what you thought was your life.

But trust me when I say this: you don't want her to come back. You may THINK you do because it is so hard when it first happens to you, and you are still going through that seperation anxiety and depression that comes naturally from such a trauma. But the point is this: the leopard won't change its spots. Your ex wife has already proven that she won't honor such commitments, so why would anyone want to take someone like this back? The cold hard truth of the matter is you are seeing the hypergamy of modern American women in action. So many of them don't know what they want. Love is just fleeting feeling, easily falling into and out of; rather than realizing TRUE love for what it is: a height to be climbed. Men OR women shouldn't want to be with anyone who has these attitudes. If she came back, she would probably do the same thing all over again when the next opportunity came. Hypergamy. Once you get over this initial hump of pain (and it is BAD) you will be much better for it. You don't need her, and you don't need another relationship in general, at least not yet. You have got to find yourself again, become accustomed to and be happy living life on your own again. For so long your identity has been wrapped up in the context of the marriage, the relationship and the family, that you may be finding yourself without an identity. You may be asking who am I? Now what do I do? Take the time to really live out those answers before you even consider another relationship, and when you do, I would encourage screening your possible relationship candidates very closely; or even foregoing american women altogether, and look at trying foreign women in countries that still hold fast to more traditional values, to whom the word 'divorce' is an evil thing as it should be. You are right that american women initiate 70-80% of the divorces in this country, and it is good that you are waking up in this way. You have to; or else you run the risk of being stuck in this game forever. You may want to opt out of this culture of serial monogamy altogether for relationships in the future.

And if you own that movie Fireproof, I suggest you take it out of the dvd player and smash it. And if you own any of the study guides or booklets for it, throw them in the dumpster. Why? This movie represents so much of the PROBLEM and not the cure. I am sorry about the painful reaction it gave you. It gave me a painful reaction too, but for an altogether different reason. This movie exemplifies how the church seems quick to shame men, and at the same time give women a free pass, never holding them accountable for anything. It just tells you that as a man, you need to jump through hoops over and over again, creating an atmosphere of perpetual courtship and excitement for your spouse, or you will lose your wife forever because she can and will do better than you. Movies like this and Pastors like Mark Driscoll lay all the blame on men, while never applying the same standard to women. If this movie is so moral, and so Christian, then why doesn't it deal with the wife's mental infidelity as she fantasizes over the good doctor and leaving Kirk Cameron's character because she thinks she can be with him and be happier? If you watch that movie again before you smash it, you will see signs of thinly veiled misandry in it. Oh, he better 'man up' and woo her again so he can win her back....meanwhile it's okay that she's running around with another guy and thinking about leaving him for that other guy. She is free to do whatever she wants for the simple fact that she is a woman, seemingly above all reproach and accountability. I say this: Who would WANT to be Kirk Cameron's character, worshipping at the altar of woman, grovelling at her feet so she deems him worthy to be with her, and not leave him for another man? In essence, all the wife in that movie is doing is selling herself to the highest bidder. It just so happens that Cameron's character ends up being the highest bidder in the end. Who in their right mind would want a woman like this? I'm sorry for being so blunt, but man, I don't want to see you going down this road. There is no accountability for the actions of women in the church anymore. You don't hear Mark Driscoll telling women to 'lady up' and stop initiating divorces. You hear him screaming at men to 'man up' and pedestalize these women, the perpetuators of serial monogamy. No one bothers to mention the fact that so many times they are the first to push for the commitment, then the first to break it. So take solace in the fact that you are by no means alone. In fact, it sounds like you can see it right there in your divorce class.

This may be a horrible time for you; but in a way God may have blessed you. You clearly weren't meant to be with this person, and ultimately you are far better off without her. It's just hard to accept that at first. You deserve someone who honors and values the commitments they make the same way you do, Biblically and before God. Don't settle for anything less. Like I said, consider going overseas if you ever want to marry again.

Also, if it would be a help to you as you go through this difficult time, if you PM me I can send you some articles that would enlighten and better help you to understand the sad state we are in when it comes to marriage and relationships. When I went through my own nightmare, educating myself was a major step in my healing process.

Finally, as a 'parting shot' so to speak:

"I find it very ironic that men with such insulting and stereotype-driven views of women are sitting around griping that WOMEN are to blame for divorce. Really? You don't think your disrespect towards women have anything to do with it?"

.....I think you have it backwards. Men's 'attitudes' concerning women are the RESULTS from what has been done to them. What you are seeing here is REACTIONARY based upon personal experience, and backed up by the facts. Unless you've been through such a traumatic event yourself: being slapped with divorce papers you didn't want or never saw coming, or went through the heavily biased divorce and family courts; having your life, your house, your children, and a sizable chunk of your wealth and assets ripped from you solely because your partner 'was in love with you but not in love with you' or 'I want to go find myself' is completely unfair to the men who have had to endure such trauma. OF COURSE that is going to change the way we view women.

I would counter that YOU are the one who is showing disrespect. Have you no sympathy for the men who have had to endure such nightmares? But such a response is typical of feminism; claiming perpetual victimhood (it's the man's fault because of his attitude! it's always the man's fault!); and then hurling accusations and insults around without the reason, logic, or facts to back it up. How is a man stereotype driven if he is reporting statistical figures? How is he being disrespectful for reporting his own experience and the experience of others around him? The truth is just the truth; whether feminists choose to ignore it or not.

Until we start holding BOTH parties equally accountable, both legally and in the church (morally) then the state of marriage in western nations will continue to deteriorate until it becomes wholly irrelevant and ultimately collapses as an institution.
 
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Asinus1223

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Fireproof almost made me a Buddhist.

Two hours of my life I'll never get back.
As for men who use inappropriate content, I paraphrase a very wise parish priest:

"When i am asked about a husband's inappropriate content use, it is almost always either 'How can I get him to stop?' or "Do you think this is grounds for divorce?' No one asks why the poor man is looking at inappropriate content in the first place. I think this is because they already know the answer, and they don't like it."
 
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Good post Asinus. I couldn't agree more on both counts.

That said I don't think that the home sex life or lack thereof accounts for all the men and inappropriate content use. I know guys who actually do have a healthy sex life with their wives but still use inappropriate content. I think that part of the problem is that men are exposed to inappropriate content at such an early age it becomes trivialized and habitual to them. This comment draws a lot of ire from hardcore fundamentalists I've discussed this subject with; but I liken a lot of cases of men and inappropriate content to a habit like smoking. Once you start doing it, it becomes quite natural and seems utterly harmless even though it probably isn't.

But I like how the priest deals with it. I think it's how we frame the issue. What I've seen is seemingly a concentrated effort to bully men on inappropriate content and masturbation from the pulpits, when masturbation itself isn't even a sin. I don't think inappropriate content should be grounds for divorce at all....like I said to the highest percentage of men it has more in common with smoking cigarettes then it does infidelity. Giving guilt trips, constant threats, and shaming language won't help the issue. As the priest implied, spicing up the sex life at home and actually making the husband feel desired....would. No man in their right mind woud prefer inappropriate content to actual sex. The fact that men have a powerful sex urge, and this in turn is not met by many spouses with sex once a month or less is indeed a huge part of the problem. With no other outlet for his desires, of course he is going to turn to inappropriate content. But why does no one talk about this? One could make a legitimate case that there is a lot of misandry in the church, and it could be the reason why more and more men are dropping out from it. Who can blame them when we only see one side of the issue from the pulpits and drivel movies like fireproof?
 
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Romanseight2005

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Good post Asinus. I couldn't agree more on both counts.

That said I don't think that the home sex life or lack thereof accounts for all the men and inappropriate content use. I know guys who actually do have a healthy sex life with their wives but still use inappropriate content. I think that part of the problem is that men are exposed to inappropriate content at such an early age it becomes trivialized and habitual to them. This comment draws a lot of ire from hardcore fundamentalists I've discussed this subject with; but I liken a lot of cases of men and inappropriate content to a habit like smoking. Once you start doing it, it becomes quite natural and seems utterly harmless even though it probably isn't.

But I like how the priest deals with it. I think it's how we frame the issue. What I've seen is seemingly a concentrated effort to bully men on inappropriate content and masturbation from the pulpits, when masturbation itself isn't even a sin. I don't think inappropriate content should be grounds for divorce at all....like I said to the highest percentage of men it has more in common with smoking cigarettes then it does infidelity. Giving guilt trips, constant threats, and shaming language won't help the issue. As the priest implied, spicing up the sex life at home and actually making the husband feel desired....would. No man in their right mind woud prefer inappropriate content to actual sex. The fact that men have a powerful sex urge, and this in turn is not met by many spouses with sex once a month or less is indeed a huge part of the problem. With no other outlet for his desires, of course he is going to turn to inappropriate content. But why does no one talk about this? One could make a legitimate case that there is a lot of misandry in the church, and it could be the reason why more and more men are dropping out from it. Who can blame them when we only see one side of the issue from the pulpits and drivel movies like fireproof?


Sadly, that simply isn't true.
 
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Humble Pie

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I do not know whether my wife's comment that if we ever divorced she would not marry again but get a couple of cats is misandry or simply a recognition of her value in the sexual market place these days, seeing as she is 53 and 100lbs overweight.

:o
 
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Romanseight2005

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And so-called Christian films, like Fireproof seem to encourage men to basically invite themselves to be done over. Most women faced with that sort of husband would take him for all he was willing to give and then ask for 50% or more of what is left.

The other thing that comes to mind is that divorce is contagious. Once one couple divorce, it seems to have an effect on everyone up to 2 degrees of separation away. (My cousin's friend divorced so it can't be too bad. I think I will too.) Both men and women seem to have forgotten that marriage is not so much designed to make you happy as holy.

But to go back to the inital thrust of this thread, should a woman who has gone off with another man be allowed back. In the OT, you were not allowed to remarry a woman who had been married to another, but equally Hosea took back Gomer how many times?

I do not know whether my wife's comment that if we ever divorced she would not marry again but get a couple of cats is misandry or simply a recognition of her value in the sexual market place these days, seeing as she is 53 and 100lbs overweight.

Market value? So your wife is an object for sale, like a house or a car?
Proverbs 5:15-19
5 Drink water from your own cistern,
running water from your own well.
16 Should your springs overflow in the streets,
your streams of water in the public squares?
17 Let them be yours alone,
never to be shared with strangers.
18 May your fountain be blessed,
and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19 A loving doe, a graceful deer —
may her breasts satisfy you always,
may you ever be captivated by her love.
NIV


Did you catch that? It's YOUR job to be captivated by your wife, EVEN as you both get OLD!! Not her job to look 20!!!!
 
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DZoolander

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I had an uncle (he passed a long time ago) who married and divorced the same woman like 7 times. Every few years - she would get some itch. He would go off to work - come home and find the house emptied (she would hock everything) - and she was gone. A few weeks later he would be notified of her suing for divorce.

Two or three years later she would reappear at his doorstep...they would "reconcile" - and the cycle would start again.

I dunno... That, and a variety of other relationships I've witnessed (and one that I was a part of) really taught me some lessons about how to approach relationships in life. On my part, always treat my partner well, never demean her, always be supportive of her goals, etc. The only thing I can really do is try to be the best provider I can be, and the best spouse I can be, day to day.

But, and equally important to me, is to never ignore what is actually happening. My being supportive within the relationship is defined simply by actions that are within the realm of our relationship. If she strays outside of it or terminates it (through a lack of fidelity), or say files for divorce, IMHO that's where the obligation ends.

If, in your partner's eyes, you are not someone they want to live the rest of their life with on Monday...odds are they feel the same way on Friday. They only difference is what happens in between. If they come back - it isn't because they TRULY changed their minds on how they felt - but rather because the single world (and it's related insecurities and uncertainty) scared them. Your crappy relationship and the certainty/security it brings became the best of bad options in their mind.

So, if they leave, I say let them go and be done with it.
 
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c1ners

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I had an uncle (he passed a long time ago) who married and divorced the same woman like 7 times. Every few years - she would get some itch. He would go off to work - come home and find the house emptied (she would hock everything) - and she was gone. A few weeks later he would be notified of her suing for divorce.

Two or three years later she would reappear at his doorstep...they would "reconcile" - and the cycle would start again.

I dunno... That, and a variety of other relationships I've witnessed (and one that I was a part of) really taught me some lessons about how to approach relationships in life. On my part, always treat my partner well, never demean her, always be supportive of her goals, etc. The only thing I can really do is try to be the best provider I can be, and the best spouse I can be, day to day.

But, and equally important to me, is to never ignore what is actually happening. My being supportive within the relationship is defined simply by actions that are within the realm of our relationship. If she strays outside of it or terminates it (through a lack of fidelity), or say files for divorce, IMHO that's where the obligation ends.

If, in your partner's eyes, you are not someone they want to live the rest of their life with on Monday...odds are they feel the same way on Friday. They only difference is what happens in between. If they come back - it isn't because they TRULY changed their minds on how they felt - but rather because the single world (and it's related insecurities and uncertainty) scared them. Your crappy relationship and the certainty/security it brings became the best of bad options in their mind.

So, if they leave, I say let them go and be done with it.

Exactly! If someone is telling you on a constant basis that you are not good enough to make them happy, why would you want them to come back? Just let them go already!
 
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DZoolander

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Well, I think that is a beautiful thing.

I mean - would you really want a world where you could compel people to stay with you that didn't want to remain there? While I think that might be appealing to people as they're first reconciling themselves to the idea of getting a divorce (under the guise of "maybe it'll give them more time to come to their senses" or something similar)...in the long run it would be a horrible idea.

"We're still married...although he (or she) lives 2500 miles away and is banging the cabana boy/girl".

That'd be...special.
 
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DZoolander

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How does one go about NOT letting the spouse go?

I mean the uncle rererererereremarrying, thats one thing

But generally, she wants to go, she goes, thats the absolute perfect beauty of unilateral no fault divorce. You have NO say.

It was more the wondering "Do women really come back" question that I was going after.

She goes? Why are you wondering if she will come back? Good riddance.
 
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iambren

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I think there's a certain amount of anxiety that goes along with the pain of losing someone you've loved who has turned away from your affections. A desperation sets in and you want to take back control, to step up and ACT somehow to reverse the loss. Then when you find you have no lifeboat to save this sinking ship you become even more anxious and fearful.

You can't keep or control anyone. You know that. But you can trust the abiding love of Christ who knows all things. You know you can let time heal you (as cliche as that sounds). And you can CHOSE to think hopefully; listen to others that have lost yet are so happy to have found someone who TRULY loves them. Try to stay busy, walk a lot, bike, whatever activity that calms your mind and fills it with serenity. Believe that "this too shall pass" and God wants the very best for you.
 
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UK Fred

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I'll take the risk that I'll get banned for using inappropriate language in a quotation (again) and ask that people look at the series of entries Rachel Clark has made on her blog within Psychgology Today, starting with

How I Got My Ex Back: The "Oh Sh*t" moment... | Psychology Today

Rachel felt unfulfilled and that marriage with her husband should not be the struggle it was. So she divorced him. She felt she had a right to be happy with the person she had met who was her new 'soul mate', so she shacked up with him.

So to answer the OP, yes, it can happen and in Rachel Clark we have public evidence of it having happened. As Clark herself points out, it does not happen as often as it might because society has normalised divorce to such an extent that the body of work which shows that all the divorce in our society is not absolutely necessary.

Hypergamy and serial marriage should not be the norm in Christian culture. Just like this Married part of CF should, IMHO, state that marriage is the Lifelong Legal Union Between One Man and One Woman. We should all be encouraging everyone who is tempted to look at divorce to look at the resources Rachel Clark has mentiioned as being helpful in her own reconciliation.

Michele Weiner-Davis' divorce-busting organisation ought to be on everyone's must contact list when there is a marriage break-up.

Those who are just 'unhaaaapy' probably do not have the self-discipline to work through David Schnarch's book, Passionate Marriage and for those who believe that adultery means you must divorce, there are the two counters, "After The Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust" by Janis Abrahms Spring and Michael Spring, and "Not Just Friends: Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity" by Shirley P Glass and Jean Coppock Staeheli. And I am simply scratching the surface of the available literature here.

So yes, women might well come back. I have pointed some to some posts in February on The Generous Husband on dealing with a partner who is intent on divorce, but I would commend them to those who would want a partner back.

I shall start a new thread asking people to contribute resources that help to keep marriages together and restore those that have started to show symptoms of falling apart, and I hope that others will contribute to it to make it a useful resource for all who vist CF.
 
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