Do we need the law to stay righteous?

[Charlie24]

No idea what you base salvation comes by the law which means keeping the law. The OT says no one does. The NT says the same. Mat 19 is commonly quoted to support your idea. If it were true why did the man who claimed he kept the law leave sorrowfully? Jesus says the only way in is through Him. Jn 10 What you believe is your business. Building up the saints is my business.

The rich young ruler of Matt. 19 claimed to have kept the law, he was a liar.

Jesus plainly said in John 7:19, Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

The young man also asked Jesus how he might have eternal life. Jesus told him to keep the commandments.

If Jesus demands us to keep the commandments for salvation but we can't, how then are we saved?

I've already explained this, I'll try another way.

It was mandatory that Christ kept the law, why?

The sins of the entire world, past, present and future were poured out on Christ at the cross of Calvary. He had to be the perfect sacrifice in every way, totally without sin in order to satisfy the broken law.

What did Christ achieve for us by doing this?

2 Cor. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The believer has received the righteousness of the law by faith in the One who kept the law.

Rom. 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Through faith in Christ we are considered by God to be law-keepers, not by our righteousness but by His.

 

[Doug Melven]

I know there are multiple laws and covenants. That is why I specifically mentioned the 10 Commandments.
No one that I know of argues that we have to keep the ceremonial law to be saved.
They only stipulate the 10 Commandments that we must keep either to get saved or stay saved.

And I also think it would be good to start a thread to examine the different covenants and laws.
But, they don't pertain to this thread.

 

[ralliann]

I know there are multiple laws and covenants. That is why I specifically mentioned the 10 Commandments.
No one that I know of argues that we have to keep the ceremonial law to be saved.
They only stipulate the 10 Commandments that we must keep either to get saved or stay saved.

And I also think it would be good to start a thread to examine the different covenants and laws.
But, they don't pertain to this thread.

The keeping of the Sabbath is ceremonial.

 

[listed]

I know there are multiple laws and covenants. That is why I specifically mentioned the 10 Commandments.
No one that I know of argues that we have to keep the ceremonial law to be saved.
They only stipulate the 10 Commandments that we must keep either to get saved or stay saved.

And I also think it would be good to start a thread to examine the different covenants and laws.
But, they don't pertain to this thread.

The 4th commandment of the ten is purely ceremonial.

 

[JLB777]

This thread is for those who believe that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone
and because we are righteous we will do good works.

The principle of righteousness says this.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous

We who have been given a born again new nature, empowered by the Spirit, do have the capacity to practice righteousness, whereas before, we could not.

• Never the less, we have to actually practice righteousness, in order to be righteous.

We who have the Spirit, still have the choice to live according to the Spirit, or live according to the flesh.

If we choose to live according to the flesh, by practicing the works of the flesh, then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.



19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


If someone doesn't understand what "will not inherit the kingdom of God" means, then please read Matthew 25:31-46.



JLB

 

[Doug Melven]

If someone doesn't understand what "will not inherit the kingdom of God" means, then please read Matthew 25:31-46.

You somehow have the idea that our identity is tied to our works. This is wrong.
We are righteous, not because of anything we did, but because God made us righteous.
In Matthew 25:31-46 note that the those who are blessed do good works.
Those who are cursed do not do good works.
Those who are cursed are cursed, not because they didn't do good works, because they didn't accept Jesus.
In fact, it would not have mattered how many good works they did if they had not accepted Jesus Christ as there Savior.
The Kingdom of God does not just refer to Heaven, the Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. Romans 14:17

 

[JLB777]

You somehow have the idea that our identity is tied to our works. This is wrong.

Please point out in my post where I said our identity is tied to our works?

Sir, it’s one thing to disagree about what the scriptures teach, it’s quite another to make up a lie about what I said, then tell me I’m wrong.

Here is my post again, so point out where I said our identity is tied to our works.




The principle of righteousness says this.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous

We who have been given a born again new nature, empowered by the Spirit, do have the capacity to practice righteousness, whereas before, we could not.

• Never the less, we have to actually practice righteousness, in order to be righteous.

We who have the Spirit, still have the choice to live according to the Spirit, or live according to the flesh.

If we choose to live according to the flesh, by practicing the works of the flesh, then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.



19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


If someone doesn't understand what "will not inherit the kingdom of God" means, then please read Matthew 25:31-46.



JLB

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is my prayer that our Father wake Christians up to their true identity. It is the Holy Ghost that keeps us righteous, not works of the law.

Yes I agree 100%. It is the Holy Spirit that guides us to do good works and repent of sin.

 

[Bob S]

The principle of righteousness says this.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous

We who have been given a born again new nature, empowered by the Spirit, do have the capacity to practice righteousness, whereas before, we could not.

• Never the less, we have to actually practice righteousness, in order to be righteous.

We who have the Spirit, still have the choice to live according to the Spirit, or live according to the flesh.

If we choose to live according to the flesh, by practicing the works of the flesh, then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.



19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


If someone doesn't understand what "will not inherit the kingdom of God" means, then please read Matthew 25:31-46.



JLB

Righteousness is practising the Royal Law of Love. Righteousness is not trying to keep days, eat all the right things or paying the modified false tithe some churches demand. Righteousness has nothing to do with how pious we must become or how many long drawn out posts one makes here on the forum. Just thought I would throw that one in for good measure, .

 

[BNR32FAN]

Righteousness is a constant battle. We can achieve it by accepting Christ as our Savior and walking in the Spirit. We can also lose it by willfully indulging in sin. We can also reattain it by confessing our sins to God and repentance. The Bible gives us many examples of actions that will keep us from entering the Kingdom of God. These actions are not walking in the Spirit.

 

[Marco70]

So, the big question is will not obeying the law make me unrighteous?

Many cannot understand Paul's message. It is not logical to the rational mind of man. You have to know you cannot be made unrighteous by your failure to obey the law in order for sin not to be your master.

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, for through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom 3:20

That statement is incorrect if you lose your righteousness by failing to observe the law

 

[Bob S]

Righteousness is a constant battle. We can achieve it by accepting Christ as our Savior and walking in the Spirit.

We cannot pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. No one achieves a righteous state without the blood of Jesus covering when we fail and we will fail. We seem to fail with the ones we love most.

We can also lose it by willfully indulging in sin.

Amen, the question on this forum is what is sin. Some look to the old covenant to define sin and tell us it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath. I refute that kind of thinking.

We can also reattain it by confessing our sins to God and repentance. The Bible gives us many examples of actions that will keep us from entering the Kingdom of God. These actions are not walking in the Spirit.

 

[Bob S]

Many cannot understand Paul's message. It is not logical to the rational mind of man. You have to know you cannot be made unrighteous by your failure to obey the law in order for sin not to be your master.

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, for through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom 3:20

How could gentiles who never had the law become conscience of sin by it? Paul wrote the following to the Galatians: 3 You foolish Galatians! What strange powers are trying to lead you from the way of faith in Christ? We made it plain for you to see that Jesus Christ was put on a cross to die. 2 There is one thing I want to know. Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the Law? Or did you receive Him by hearing about Christ? 3 How foolish can you be? You started the Christian life by the Holy Spirit. Do you think you are going to become better Christians by your old way of worship? 4 You suffered so much because of the Good News you received. Was this all of no use? 5 He gave you the Holy Spirit and did powerful works among you. Does He do it because you do what the Law says or because you hear and believe the truth?

That statement is incorrect if you lose your righteousness by failing to observe the law

The law was for Israel and them alone. Christians have Jesus law of love. 1jn3:24

 

[BNR32FAN]

We cannot pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. No one achieves a righteous state without the blood of Jesus covering when we fail and we will fail. We seem to fail with the ones we love most.


Amen, the question on this forum is what is sin. Some look to the old covenant to define sin and tell us it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath. I refute that kind of thinking.

As James said in chapter 2 a saving faith produces works. It also produces repentance. That doesn’t mean we won’t stumble but there’s a difference between stumbling and being a slave to sin. Being a slave to sin means you like it and willingly indulge in it. Stumbling means you made a mistake. It is this type of faith that compels us to devote ourselves to God that saves us. Not the work and not the repentance. This is walking in the Spirit because it is the Spirit that is compelling us to do these things. If we abide in the Spirit’s guidance we are walking in the Spirit.

 

[Marco70]

How could gentiles who never had the law become conscience of sin by it?

I didn't say they could

 

[BNR32FAN]

My posts are a little off topic. For the record no we don’t need the law to stay righteous. We need to walk in the Spirit.

 

[Bob S]

I didn't say they could

Ah, but you quoted Rom 3:20 without acknowledging verse 19. Using scripture to make a point that is not Biblical, taking scripture out of context is very suspicious.. I am not telling you that you did it on purpose, but many are guilty of doing just that.

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

 

[Marco70]

Ah, but you quoted Rom 3:20 without acknowledging verse 19. Using scripture to make a point that is not Biblical, taking scripture out of context is very suspicious.. I am not telling you that you did it on purpose, but many are guilty of doing just that.

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Not really. If you have no righteousness of observing the law you cannot be under the law. I would have thought all would know that, so needless to quote it

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I am puzzled. What is it about God's righteousness that have you guys debating about law and grace. What is it that you do not understand? The Bible tells us that.
John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

So this shows there is a clear difference between the two. And they cannot mix. A person is living under one or the other. Pick one! But know, as Apostle Paul warned the Galatians,calling them foolish because they were trying to mix law and grace.

 

[BobRyan]

The principle of righteousness says this.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness is righteous

We who have been given a born again new nature, empowered by the Spirit, do have the capacity to practice righteousness, whereas before, we could not.

Yes that is true.

And in Romans 8:4-10 Paul contrasts the lost with the saved -- on that very point.

• Never the less, we have to actually practice righteousness, in order to be righteous.

If we choose to live according to the flesh, by practicing the works of the flesh, then we will not inherit the kingdom of God.

True as Romans 2 says in triplicate.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

If someone doesn't understand what "will not inherit the kingdom of God" means, then please read Matthew 25:31-46.
JLB

True - that is scripture.

1 Cor 6 -- Paul says "do not be deceived" on this matter
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

here then is the very point of "deception" where many today are deceived.