Do we need the law to stay righteous?

[expos4ever]

Then you say you believe we are saved by faith.

This is only a contradiction to you. I have clearly stated that good works are the sign of true saving faith. There is no contradiction. I invite you complete a sentence:

When Paul writes in Roman 2:6-7 that eternal life is given to those who strive to do good, he is intending to tell us ______________________________________

Please complete the sentence as you see fit.

 

[Doug Melven]

An awesome picture of the grace of God is found in the story of the Prodigal son in Luke 15.
One of two sons says to his Father, "Give me the portion of my inheritance".
And the Father gives it to him.
And the prodigal son goes his way and spends all of his inheritance, and there was a famine in that land and he got hungry. And nobody would give him anything. He was ready to eat pig's food. So he said to himself, "How many of my Father's servants have enough food and to spare. I will go to my Father and tell him I have sinned and maybe he will make me like one of his servants". So he got up to go home, but while he was a great way off the Father saw him and the Father ran to his son. The Father actually ran, he couldn't get to his son fast enough. So the Father ran.
When he got to his son, his son had a speech all prepared, he did not get a word in edge wise, the Father fell on his son and kissed. The Father's servants must have ran too, because he said to them, "Bring out the best robe, and put sandals on his feet and a ring on his finger and bring out the fatted calf, we are going to have a feast because my son has come home".
The younger son was given more than he had before he left to go on his binge.
The older son, when he found out, he was not happy. And he refused to go inside and be a part of the festivities.
So the Father came out to him as well. The older son let his disapproval be known by telling his Father that he did everything the Father told him to do. He gave phrases like, "this thy son" not "my brother". The older son considered himself to be a servant, he thought the Father should bless him for his work. He didn't even care to have a relationship with his Father. Because he said, "you never gave me a kid that I might make merry with my friends". But the Father had, when the younger son asked for his portion the Father divided the inheritance. But the older son didn't recognize what the Father had done. But the Father had still blessed him.

Note, these 2 about sonship.
The younger knew he was a son but didn't feel he should take advantage of it because of his sin.
But, he never stopped being a son. Despite his sin.
The older son thought he was a servant,, thinking the Father/Boss should bless him because of his obedience.
But he as well was always a son. Despite his self-righteousness.
That is the love of the Father.

 

[Doug Melven]

suspect you are not serious, since the meaning is so clear. Paul is saying that God will give life to our mortal bodies if we live the right way.

That is simply how the text reads.

How you see there being an issue of repetition is beyond me.

I am quite serious. God will quicken my mortal body when Jesus Chris comes back. Then this mortal will have put on immortality.
I put to death the deeds of the flesh not to get eternal life, but because it is stupid to let sin reign in my body.
Living with addictions, bad habits and what else you have is just not living. That is existing. Big difference between living with the peace and joy of the LORD and existing with a bottle of spirits or the inappropriate content that I used to be addicted to.

This is only a contradiction to you. I have clearly stated that good works are the sign of true saving faith. There is no contradiction. I invite you complete a sentence:

When Paul writes in Roman 2:6-7 that eternal life is given to those who strive to do good, he is intending to tell us ______________________________________

Please complete the sentence as you see fit.

To have faith if you want to have eternal life.
Patience in well doing is faith. If you are doing well you are pleasing God and there is only one way to please God, and that is to have faith. If you don't have faith, nothing you can do will please Him. It will be like a bloody rag that is completely worthless. Isaiah 64:6
You have clearly stated that good works are a sign of faith. But you have only said that since you gave that explanation of Romans 2:6-7. But from the time you introduced Romans 2:6-7 you have clearly stated that good works are necessary for salvation, nothing about faith.
Before you introduced Romans 2:6-7 you were consistent in your statement about we are righteous by faith.
Then you asked people to explain that verse, whenever anybody did explain it, you said they were evasive about the verse. Then you finally explained it using the same words that when others said those words it was error.
The only thing you added was about the testing.
That is why I am not sure you know what you believe, you flip flop.

 

[Doug Melven]

May I insert a shameless plug....check out this new thread “Caution Not for the weak”.....thanks for your indulgence.

Here is the thread Blood Bought 1953 is referring to. It is an awesome video.
Caution! NOT for the weak in faith

 

[expos4ever]

I am done with this thread.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Here is the thread Blood Bought 1953 is referring to. It is an awesome video.
Caution! NOT for the weak in faith

Thank you , my brother....and you can rest assured I will check out Andrew wommack....if you like him I’m sure I will too....no doubt he is a buckeye fan. Lol....another crate of crying towels is in the mail .....headed up north

 

[JLB777]

Please define "good"?
I think it would be doing the one thing without which we cannot please God. Hebrews 11:6

Here is one example:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did itto one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46

• Example of doing good -

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’

• Example of not doing good -

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’




JLB

 

[listed]

This is only a contradiction to you. I have clearly stated that good works are the sign of true saving faith. There is no contradiction. I invite you complete a sentence:

When Paul writes in Roman 2:6-7 that eternal life is given to those who strive to do good, he is intending to tell us ______________________________________

Please complete the sentence as you see fit.

Paul isn't telling us a person can be saved (secure eternal life) by our own works. Romans 3:23 would be a direct contradiction.

 

[listed]

I simply quoted scripture.


Here is what Jesus said about eternal life:

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

What are you calling good? Is it the keeping of the law? Please show us the Scripture that anyone except Jesus has kept it and thereby secured eternal life. Jesus plainly says you will only get into heaven by Him (John 10).

 

[bekkilyn]

Here is one example:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did itto one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46

• Example of doing good -

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’

• Example of not doing good -

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
JLB

No points to argue at the moment, but my pastor's sermon was on these exact verses this past week.

 

[Doug Melven]

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’

If doing those things will get us into Heaven, we all need to go join the Catholic Church. because they do a lot of that stuff.
And if all I had to do was do those kinds of things, what do I need Jesus for?
Why did Jesus have to die?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Out of context. Jesus is answering question posed by the disciples about the end times,the Tribulation—-a time when the age of grace is over,the church is gone and the antichrist Is persecuting the 144,000....people with faith will be aiding these Jewish spreaders of the Gospel..they will be judged on how they treat these Jews.....gotta go sorry

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

No scripture here.


Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Here is the Scripture 1Cor:15. Brethren I declare unto you the Gospel.."by which you are SAVED...how Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and that He rose again on the third day.God forbid that i stated my opinion—- “that was sure a first here— please show how my opinion differed from what Paul was trying to get a across...thanks

 

[JLB777]

Here is the Scripture 1Cor:15. Brethren I declare unto you the Gospel.."by which you are SAVED...how Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and that He rose again on the third day.God forbid that i stated my opinion—- “that was sure a first here— please show how my opinion differed from what Paul was trying to get a across...thanks

Why did you leave out parts of the verse?

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.1 Corinthians 15:1-2

The condition of "if", is set forth to show us that we must continue to believe, if we are to continue to be saved , in the end.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

If doing those things will get us into Heaven, we all need to go join the Catholic Church. because they do a lot of that stuff.
And if all I had to do was do those kinds of things, what do I need Jesus for?
Why did Jesus have to die?

I was asked for an example of "doing good", so I provided an example for the bible.


Are you saying, you don't believe what Jesus said?


34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-36


What was the reason, Jesus welcomed these into His kingdom, on the day of Judgement?


‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[Because] for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’


My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 1 John 3:18



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Why did Jesus have to die?

So we would be forgiven our sins, and reconciled to God, in which we walk in love and practice righteousness.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7



JLB

 

[listed]

Here is one example:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did itto one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46

• Example of doing good -

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’

• Example of not doing good -

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’




JLB

It's interesting to me these people didn't even recognize their good works. It also is interesting who here wants to talk about works, good or not. Generally when works are talked about here, it's about keeping the law. The focus is still about our works being required. Don't people here recognize even the wicked do the things in the list above? So what if those things are done in the name of God. Jesus said in Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

How can works prove anything?

 

[JLB777]

It's interesting to me these people didn't even recognize their good works. It also is interesting who here wants to talk about works, good or not. Generally when works are talked about here, it's about keeping the law.

The "work" or action of obedience, in response to the Spirit of Christ within, prompting His people to walk in righteousness and truth, is walking according to the Spirit.


The alternative, is walking according to the desires of the flesh, and practicing the works of the flesh.

• Paul calls this: "obeying the truth" or "not obeying the truth"

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB

 

[listed]

I was asked for an example of "doing good", so I provided an example for the bible.


Are you saying, you don't believe what Jesus said?


34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-36


What was the reason, Jesus welcomed these into His kingdom, on the day of Judgement?


‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[Because] for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’


My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 1 John 3:18



JLB

Works don't effect our salvation. Salvation do effect our works. They didn't gain access because of their works. Jesus made it clear a person can only get into heaven by and through Him in John 10.

 

[listed]

The "work" or action of obedience, in response to the Spirit of Christ within, prompting His people to walk in righteousness and truth, is walking according to the Spirit.


The alternative, is walking according to the desires of the flesh, and practicing the works of the flesh.

• Paul calls this: "obeying the truth" or "not obeying the truth"

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Nothing about works here. We know those who have entered into (eternal) life have already passed the judgment even while we live in the flesh.

John 10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Nothing here about works either. In fact those who try to enter because of their works are called thieves and don't get in. Jesus is the only way in.

Yes I do believe Christians will be rewarded for their works. It just won't be at the White Throne Judgment. Christians already passed that judgment.