Do We Need Free-Will to be Self Conscious?

[Ratiocination]

Well? I think yes, because if we are aware of our existence then that would lead us to freely question it, we would ask questions like; why are we here, where did we come from, why should we serve the creator etc. etc. However, if we take free will out of the equation then such questions could never be thought of and we would not be aware of our own existence (which we are).

Thus, if we have the ability to question our creator about how he runs things, then it could lead to some not accepting him and a rebellion would ensue. Could we blame God for this rebellion or conclude that he planned it? No, because he only produced us with the ability to choose solely for his purpose of building self-aware machines, and he gave us guidelines on how to use this gift to keep us free from trouble and strife.

So if anyone believes that God planned all this rebellion and trouble then they need to ask themselves; do we need free will to be self-conscious?

 

[mawuvi]

Without free will we are mere robots or puppets on a string. As God holds man accountable for his sins that says God created man with free will. In line with this humans have a free will to choose to worship Almighty God or not to.

Josh. 24: 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve Jehovah, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah.

 

[Serapha]

Do We Need Free-Will to be Self Conscious?

Hi there!






In a sense, probably yes... as the will is a part of the soul, and it is the soul which makes man a living being, above the animal being.

The Release of the Spirit. (Watchman Nee)


"When God comes to indwell us, by His Spirit, Life and Power, He comes into our spirit which we are calling the inward man. Outside of this inward man is the soul wherein functions our thoughts, emotions, and will. The outermost man is our physical body."

~serapha~

 

[Beoga]

man will always use his free will to choose to deny God, that is unless God does something, at least that is what the Bible says.

 

[mawuvi]

man will always use his free will to choose to deny God, that is unless God does something, at least that is what the Bible says.

You seem to imply that God forces or comples us to worship hum. Since you say this in the Bible can you share this scripture please.

 

[Imblessed]

I believe there is more than one kind of "free-will"

I don't think Paul had an ounce of "free-will" when Jesus came and knocked him off his horse and gave him the revelation. He was busy having fun prosecuting and killing christians.

 

[stauron]

I believe there is more than one kind of "free-will"

I don't think Paul had an ounce of "free-will" when Jesus came and knocked him off his horse and gave him the revelation. He was busy having fun prosecuting and killing christians.

Yep. "free" will is a myth. Men are free according to their nature.

7:18 A good tree is not able to bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree to bear good fruit.

Trees that only bear bad fruit are not able to change their nature. Only God changes the nature.

The real question is how does a bad tree change and what part does the tree have in it and when?

Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? [Then] you also will be able to do good who are accustomed to do evil

 

[mawuvi]

So we are treating trees as sentient beings now are we? That doesn't smack of a logical way to argue about free will to me

 

[gort]

How does the unregenerate man think he has free will, when in reality he has a taskmaster and father named satan?

<><

 

[Imblessed]

So we are treating trees as sentient beings now are we? That doesn't smack of a logical way to argue about free will to me

I'm sorry Mawuvi, as much as I respect you, I have to sometimes.....

 

[stauron]

So we are treating trees as sentient beings now are we? That doesn't smack of a logical way to argue about free will to me

I prefer the potter and the clay analogy, but trees are slightly more flattering.

Matthew 7 is the passage, you may want to read the context before you comment.

 

[Imblessed]

BTW everyone, I'll be gone for a few days...my husband and I are going out on our bikes for a couple of days, then taking the boys camping, etc....Probably won't be back online before monday night.......

 

[stauron]

BTW everyone, I'll be gone for a few days...my husband and I are going out on our bikes for a couple of days, then taking the boys camping, etc....Probably won't be back online before monday night.......

Have a great time. I'll try and leave some of the fun for you!

stauron

 

[Ratiocination]

BTW everyone, I'll be gone for a few days...my husband and I are going out on our bikes for a couple of days, then taking the boys camping, etc....Probably won't be back online before monday night.......

Sounds great, hope you make the most of it. I'll post on here in the next day or so, busy busy busy at the mo'

 

[mawuvi]

BTW everyone, I'll be gone for a few days...my husband and I are going out on our bikes for a couple of days, then taking the boys camping, etc....Probably won't be back online before monday night.......

Wow camping sounds very adventurous. The boys eh? So you are the only female in the wolf pack, I am sure you are in control of that gang. Hope you all have a great time and hope to hear from you soon

 

[Ratiocination]

Yep. "free" will is a myth. Men are free according to their nature.

As a self conscious being I would have to dissagree, I'm aware of one choice as opposed to another, one answer compared to another, to kill or not to kill, thus it would not be God who is the muderer but me, and if I break Gods law he may break me. It would be called sin and punishment and justice would be required. If we take your veiw then all this falls apart!!!

 

[stauron]

As a self conscious being I would have to dissagree, I'm aware of one choice as opposed to another, one answer compared to another, to kill or not to kill, thus it would not be God who is the muderer but me, and if I break Gods law he may break me. It would be called sin and punishment and justice would be required. If we take your veiw then all this falls apart!!!

Nope. Good trees produce good fruit, bad trees produce bad fruit. Some clay is made for noble purpose and some for profane/common use.

Being aware of choosing and making choices doesn't change one's nature as a dependent, contingent creature. Nor does it affect sin's mastery over one.

 

[G4m]

Well? I think yes, because if we are aware of our existence then that would lead us to freely question it, we would ask questions like; why are we here, where did we come from, why should we serve the creator etc. etc. However, if we take free will out of the equation then such questions could never be thought of and we would not be aware of our own existence (which we are).

Thus, if we have the ability to question our creator about how he runs things, then it could lead to some not accepting him and a rebellion would ensue. Could we blame God for this rebellion or conclude that he planned it? No, because he only produced us with the ability to choose solely for his purpose of building self-aware machines, and he gave us guidelines on how to use this gift to keep us free from trouble and strife.

So if anyone believes that God planned all this rebellion and trouble then they need to ask themselves; do we need free will to be self-conscious?

No, I don't think so.

 

[LightBearer]

Nope. Good trees produce good fruit, bad trees produce bad fruit. Some clay is made for noble purpose and some for profane/common use.

Being aware of choosing and making choices doesn't change one's nature as a dependent, contingent creature. Nor does it affect sin's mastery over one.

But yet ALL trees originally made by Jehovah were good.

Genesis 1:29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food.

Genesis 1:31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. . .

Regards,

LB

 

[stauron]

But yet ALL trees originally made by Jehovah were good.

Genesis 1:29 And God went on to say: "Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food.

Genesis 1:31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. . .

Regards,

LB

I am waiting patiently for a point.