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Featured Do we live near the last days? What does Revelation 18 mean?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Milos, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I did not say the 7 woes "last" 1260 days. It is not possible to determine the exact timing of the 7 woes - other than they take place during the 42 month rule of the beast (as in Revelation 1256.5 days is referred to as 42 months) after the two witnesses are gone.

    The 7th trumpet sounds after the two witnesses ascend on day 1263.5. So it less, not more than 1260 days left in the 7 years when the 7th trumpet sounds.

    Go to my post #47 in this link....

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/revelation-10-and-the-mystery-of-god.8074718/page-3
     
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The first seal in Revelation 6 begins at the start of the 7 years.

    Revelation 12:6, the 1260 days begins at the start of the 7 years. Then the war in the second heaven. Then the time, times, half times -- ~ the second half of the 7 years.

    Revelation 13, the 42 months -- ~ the second half of the 7 years.

    "~" is on your keyboard. It is called a "tilde". In mathematics, it means similarity and approximately. You are probably going to see a lot of that symbol from me going forward, to mean not exactly 1260 days, but close.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Middle, not exact mid point day 1260. The seventh trumpet sounds after the two witnesses ascend on day 1263.5. Day 1260 would be the exact mid-point.

    The 1260 days -- the first half
    The 42 months -- ~ the second half
    The time, times, half time -- ~ the second half

    The three woes on the inhabiters of the earth, in the text, are...
    The flesh tormenting locust
    The huge army killing a third of mankind
    Satan cast down to earth, knowing he has but a little time left
     
  4. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    So the TWO-WITNESSES DIE on the 1260 then 3 1/2 days later you say they ARISE to Heaven, and the 7th Trumpet SOUNDS.......Well if that doesn't leave almost 1260 days for the 7 Vials then I don't know how to add !!

    I think you confuse yourself here brother, you are all over the place.

    You also say Satan is KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN, at the 7th Trumpet, well we know the Dragon chases Israel INTO THE WILDERNESS where God Protects them for 1260 days, so the 7 Vials ALSO has to last 1260 days, since Israel has to be protected from the Dragon for 1260 days. I pretty am very clear on this subject, and correct, about 99.5 percent of the time, if I tell you that what you said adds up to the 7 Vials lasting 1260 days, there is a reason I said it.

    So you can say that..........but what you said, in essence means just that. The dragon chases Israel into the Wilderness where she is protected for 1260 days, meaning it has to happen at the FIRST SEAL, not the 7th Trumpet !! Its simple math brother. Its 7 Vials not woes, I figured you just misspoke (chatted) there. The 42 Months are 1260 days, those other numbers are all in your mind brother, I have never heard anyone else say 156.5 days.

    I have heard you go over this numerous times, and I have never agreed with it, nor will I ever even get it at all. So its LESS by 3.5 days, so the 7 Vials last almost 1260 days ? That is just not correct, the FIRST SEAL is the Middle of the week.

    No it doesn't, Jesus RELEASES the Anti-Christ to go forth to become the BEAST at the 1260 mark. Not at the beginning of the week.

    Satan is chasing the Woman into the Wilderness, thus the is the last 3.5 Years.

    This is the EXACT SAME TIME PERIOD as Rev. 12, 1260 days.

    In the bible Rev. 6, 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start at the same point in time, at the 1260.

    No my friend, the Seal is the Middle of the Week, the 7th Trumpet sounds and there is 75 days left. There is no such thing as the 3.5 days mattering.

    Wrong, the 1260 Days is the same 42 Month period of the BEAST on everything except the Two-witnesses who show up 75 days before the Beast shows up.

    1. Demons...........

    2. And Angelic Army bringing Plagues.

    3. Satan is cast down to earth during the Seals. The 7th Trumpet brings forth the 7 Vials and ALL SEVEN VIALS are the 3rd Woe.......JUST LIKE ALL SEVEN TRUMPETS come from the 7th Seal !!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Almost - not exactly. Almost is 1256.5 days left.

    Here is what the verse actually says...

    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    The place is the land of Israel, since 1948. The feeding is what lasts 1260 days. The two witnesses feed her the word of God for 1260 days.
    RT, you keep trying to put words in my mouth.

    I am not making any claims of how long the 7 vials last. I know that 7 vials fit within the 42 months. That doesn't mean starting on the first day of the 42 months. There is no way of knowing on what day the first vial is poured out, nor any of the vials.
     
  6. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Yea, so you do basically think the 7 Vials last for 1260 days, just like I stated, minus 3.5 days. That IS just not the case brother.

    The place is Jordan, go read Dan. 11:40-43, Jordan ESCAPES the Anti-Christ Conquering.

    Dan. 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. {{ All of these are just East of Israel, or today's Jordan. }}

    The 1260 days is 1260 days, the second half of the 70th week. When it doesn't add up right I guess its easier to just change to subject.

    No, I am showing you brother why your math doesn't add up. Einstein had the theory of Relativity solved, but he had one minute faction wrong. Another guy actually solved just ahead of Einstein, but when he saw that Einstein had it, he basically stated it was his theory, he should get the credit.

    The Seals start the Middle of the Week, Dan. 9:27 tells us that, the Anti-Christ reneges on his peace in the Middle of the Week. The Anti-Christ becomes the Beast in Rev. ch. 6. The Seals, Trumpets and Vials are The Day of the Lord, a 3.5 yer period of time. I think you are way to entrenched in your thoughts brother. If God isn't showing us new things we KNOW IT ALL ALREADY !!

    God Bless.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    RT, that is not what I have stated.

    I am not making any claims of how long the 7 vials last. I know that 7 vials fit within the 42 months. That doesn't mean starting on the first day of the 42 months. There is no way of knowing on what day the first vial is poured out, nor any of the vials.

    First, the person has to become the Antichrist and begin the 7 years, i.e. confirming the covenant for 7 years, before he stops the daily sacrifice in the middle of the 7 years.

    In Revelation 6, the first seal is the person arriving as the imposter messiah, riding the white horse who begins the 7 years.

    I think you are describing your own situation. I have been showing you things written right in the text, such as the three woes to the inhabiters of the earth. ....but, you are locked in that the third woe is the vials of God's wrath.
     
  8. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    You are not felling me brother, I will give you an example below why that's exactly what you are saying, even though you don't admit to it or acknowledge it.

    If I told you that I was going to lease a house for 7 years, and that just before July 4 in the 4th year a person was going to come stay with me until the lease was up, I wouldn't have to tell you how many days he was going to live there with me, its that simplistic.

    The anti-Christ GOES FORTH on day 1260, thus he will have 42 Months or 1260 days to rule. Its not that complicated, and Satan chases the Women into the Wilderness so hes been cast out og Heaven by the time the Anti-Christ comes to power.

    Now build the rest of your understanding around these KNOWN FACTS instead of trying to fit the time-line into your theories brother. The 7th Trumpet has nothing to do with Satan being cast out of heaven, but since you couldn't find the 3rd Woe, you went searching for it, even though its right there in front of your eyes, the 7 Vials are the 3rd Trumpet just like the 7 Trumpets are the 7th Seal. We ca know via MATH.....If the Two-witnesses die BEFORE the Beast and they do, then if we can figure out how man days they SHOW UP before the Best then we can figure out how many days before the Beast dies that they die, its just COMMON SENSE !! So when the Holy Spirit showed me the 1335 is when the Two-witnesses show up, 75 days before the Beast comes to power, then I knew, they also die 75 days before the Beast dies, thus when the 7th Trumpet is sounded 3 1/2 days later that tells us that the Vials last basically 72 days or 2 1/2 months Basically.

    Hes Anti-Christ for all 40-50 years he is alive before he conquers Jerusalem. Many people are Anti-Christ, hes only THE BEAST for 42 Months, he is NEVER the King of Israel. He will be the President of the E.U. longer that 42 months, probably longer than the 7 years. Only the 3.5 years of FAKE PEACE and the 3.5 years as the BEAST matters. The False Prophets stops the praising of Jesus and places an IMAGE of the E.U. President in the Temple of God, that happens BEFORE the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem.

    Rev. 6 is the Anti-Christ GOING FORTH TO CONQUER.........That is in NO WISE Peace.

    No, I hear the voice of understanding and correction all the time. Your whole time-line is way off brother. But then again, you think Israel makes this man their King and the bible never says that. The first two Woes are the 5th Trumpet and the 6th Trumpet, please tell me why the 7th Trumpet is not the 3rd Woe ? And the 7th Seal is ALL SEVEN TRUMPETS !!
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I am showing you the "bible" reasoning the 42 months in Revelation is not exactly 1260 days. And the time, times, and half time is not exactly 1260 days.
    Not day 1260, but when he comes into the middleeast following Gog/Magog to take over the decimated middle east countries for the oil, while claiming to do so to maintain peace and stability in the region. That's at the start of the 7 years, not in the middle.

    By the time day 1260 rolls around, he will have become the beast, claiming to be God, and no longer the Antichrist, illegitimate King of Israel. When the person becomes the revealed man of sin, the rider on the red horse will have begun to ride at that time.

    You have your horses all mixed up. The rider on the white horse is the imposter messiah. Which the world will be thinking peace and safety.

    I showed you over and over from the text that Satan cast down to earth is a woe on the inhabiters of the earth.

    Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    Revelaton 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    What does this verse say...the part in blue?

    Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

    Why are those words even in the bible, applying to Jesus? Did the Jews receive Jesus as the King of Israel, at the crucifixion?

    John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

    When you say the person is not going to be the illegitimate King of Israel perceived messiah, it is almost like saying there is going to be no rapture. Because Paul in 1Thessalonians5, tied the rapture to be before the Day of the Lord begins - which in turn is preceded by the world saying peace and safety... because the person will be thought to be the messiah, the rider on the white horse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  10. Gell

    Gell Redeemed Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    We’re still waiting for Ezekiel 38 to happen though. Could be quite devastating but it is the LORD’s purpose that prevails.
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The mystery of God is completed in the days of the seventh trumpet. The seventh trumpet itself is not a woe. In the days of the seventh trumpet, the third woe will take place, along with a lot of other things including the destruction of Satan's kingdom of mystery Babylon the Great.

    Revelation 10.6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    The mystery of God is not the vials of wrath, but the bringing the Kingdom of God to be the ruling kingdom here on earth over all earthly kingdoms - which Satan's kingdom of mystery Babylon the Great has held a grip on the nations of the earth.

    The sounding of the seventh trumpet is the go signal to start dismantling Satan's kingdom of mystery Babylon the Great. Babylon the great is fallen is fallen, is Satan and his angels cast down to earth. Satan is the star fallen from heaven in Revelation 9, to release them in the bottomless pit, because they are going to be judged along with Satan and his angels.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  12. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    No you are not showing me anything, the Two-witnesses ministry doesn't start at the same time as the Beast and thus is not on the same track as the Day of the Lord is. The 3.5 days don't mean ANYTHING, their Ministry lasts exactly 1260 days, thus that ends when they are killed. The 1260 days and the "Time, times and half [time]" is EXACTLY the same time period. As is the 42 months. God uses this MIDDLE OF THE WEEK as a reference point, like the North Star in the skies, and you are looking all over the place trying to find it, instead of in the North !! The WHOLE REASON God uses the Middle of the week aka the 1260 event is He can tell us everything we need to know, without saying it, the Holy Spirit can guide us unto the truth.

    Hold up, so you actually think Gog and Magog is the War of Armageddon? Brother you are barking up the wrong tree. Gog never Conquers Israel, he gets DESTROYED by God. This not the Armageddon war. Notice the Gog & Magog war has no one fighting with them hat touches Israel's borders !! Not Egypt, not Syria, not Lebanon, not Jordan, its Russia and Turkey and some other African countries, and the last 3 or 4 verses in Ezek. 38 tells you they get destroyed by God on the Mountain of God, this clears the way for the Anti-Christ of Europe to come forth.

    Or maybe you are saying he comes after Gog/Magog.

    Anyway, the Anti-Christ has AGREEMENTS with MANY....They are already in place, its called the European Neighborhood Policy.

    That is when Jesus OPENS THE SEALS, he becomes the Beast and is revealed as such, no one cares about a President of Europe, when he Conquers the region and Israel, at that point in time he becomes the BEAST and that happens at the very First Seal.

    He is never received as Israel's King, that just coming from you brother. All four of the Horses are associated with the BEAST. The White Horse means CONQUEROR, that is why it says he goes forth Conquering and to Conquer. Jesus is a CONQUEROR in Rev. 19, your understanding is off a wee bit it seems brother.

    And you can't see the Woes would be out of order if you were correct. Its SIMPLE MATH, Satan is cast out of Heaven by the Middle of the week, he chases Israel into the Wilderness where she resides protected by God for 1260 days, thus hrs cast out around the time of the Seals, the FIRST WOE is the 5th Trumpet, so your theory can't fit !! That's my point, you wont eve listen to reason on your timeline, which can not fit by simple math. The 2nd Woe is the 6th Trumpet thus the 7th Trumpet has to be the 3rd Woe. Its not that hard really, yet you want the 3rd Woe to have happened BEFORE the other 2 Woes, all because the Chronological order confuses you I guess brother. If you would understand that Rev. 1-3...4 and 5...6,7,8,9,15&16....20,21 and 22 is the REAL ORDER of Revelation, you might get it, then you would see that Rev. 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 ans 19 are speaking of things that happened in the other books of Rev. Mostly from Rev. 6 to 16.

    Rev. 12 happens during Rev. 6, the Seals, but you think the 1st Woe (5th Trumpet) and the 2nd Woe (6th Trumpet) come AFTER the 3rd Woe of Satan being cast down from Heaven, (in the Seals). But the 3rd Woe happens after the other two woes. The 7th Trumpet sounds and thus the 3rd Woe is the 7 Vials..............Just like the 7th Seal is ALL SEVEN TRUMPETS !!

    Just because the word WOE is used doesn't mean its one of the Three Woes !! Good grief man.

    You really don't get that Rev. 12 happens before Rev. 8 do you ? Its not in order brother.

    Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees who of course tried to put forth "Messiahs" in desperation around 70 AD because they of course understood Rome was the Fourth Beast, thus the were expecting the Little Horn, thus they were looking for the Messiah to save them, not knowing they had rejected the Messiah in Jesus............THUS..........Jn. 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

    But this happened HERE...........Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

    The above is what Jesus was speaking about in Jn. 5:43, hes speaking unto HIS DISCIPLES, telling them not to be DECEIVED, in other words false Messiah would come forth around 70 AD but Jesus tells them, THE END IS NOT YET !!

    So you are conflating Jn 5.43 with the Jews accepting an ANTI-CHRIST during the End Times and that's just not the case brother. No where does it say that they receive a Messiah and thus say PEACE & SAFETY, they say PEACE & SAFETY because there is PEACE & SAFETY as they perceive it, not because of a Messiah. You put forth way to much conjecture brother.

    The White Horse STANDS for Conquering, NOT PEACE.

    Rev. 10 is not a Part of the Chronological order. The SEALS/TRUMPETS/VIALS run from 6, 7, 8, 9, and 15&16 which go together.

    Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are not a part of the order of Brother.
     
  13. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    Seems to me scripture reveals Babylon is a city and not the earth ....perhaps Babylon is yet to exist ...

    Zechariah 5:5-11 reveals a house or temple is to be build for "wickedness" in the land of "Shinar"...ie Babylon

    It will be build by 2 women (symbolic of 2 religions or 2 nations) in the land of "Shinar"....ie Babylon....

    Zechariah predicts the rise of wickedness from Babylon ...thus an actual location . ..an actual city

    And the false religion yet to come from there will be Babylon herself exposed and from there she will reign over the future 10 kingdoms for a season until the antichrist comes and takes control over the 10 kingdoms to destroy her ...

    Babylon is the mother of harlots ...she gave birth to false religions of the world ....It is the mother who is to be punished so not necessarily the harlots .... I don't see where in scripture shows the harlots being punished with her.
    Perhaps you can point that out for me...

    If indeed Babylon will be rebuilt , it may be built for wickedness sake, for the purpose of taking the punishment for the evils she committed throughout history....and one day she will hold captive Satan and his band

    Satan will be bound to a specific location on earth ....thus the need to come out of that future city for her judgement is coming ...like in the days of lot, angels will warn Gods people to repent and come out of the city......
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Where in the Revelation verses is the beginning of the 7 years, to you?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    That's what I wrote, if you read it.
    ______________________________________________________________
    Douggg said:
    Not day 1260, but when he comes into the middleeast following Gog/Magog to take over the decimated middle east countries for the oil, while claiming to do so to maintain peace and stability in the region. That's at the start of the 7 years, not in the middle.
    _______________________________________________________________


    RT, you have an erroneous idea that the rider on the white horse is the Antichrist invading Israel, an enemy to Israel, which you are reasoning the rider on the white horse is in the middle of the seven years. But that is not what the case.

    Riding a white horse, he is seen as the messiah, not an invader to Israel. The comparison is to Jesus riding the white horse in Revelation 19, the true messiah.

    The leader of the EU brings his EU army into the middle east, after God has destroyed Gog/Magog armies, and takes over the middle east , in similitude to the occupation of Germany following WWII. Any resistance he meets in those countries, he quickly puts down. Which will have the effect of establishing peace in the middle east.

    He will be a Jew, and the Jews will think he is the messiah.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You are seeing the trumpets, the same way some people do in their understanding of the seals. That Jesus appears in haven in the sixth seal to the world, then everything in the seventh seal, thus must come after Jesus appearing to the world, incuding the trumpets.

    The 2nd woe in not the 6th trumpet, as you have phrased it. The problem is the way you are phrasing things, it changes the meaning from what is actually written in the text. The 6th trumpet signals what the 2nd woe is. Likewise, the 7th trumpet signals what the 3rd woe is.
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Jesus is riding a white horse in Revelation 19. He conquers the amirs gathered to make war on him, and to defeat the beast, the false prophet, and to take Satan out of circulation. In doing all those things, does Jesus bring peace to the world during the millennium rule?
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Regardless, this is what it says in Revelation 10:

    Revelation 10.6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    Do you see that, RT? The mystery of God should be finished. The mystery of God is not that He will pour out wrath upon the earth. But that the Kingdom of God would become the ruling Kingdom here on earth over all human kingdoms.

    For that to happen, what has to happen to Satan and his kingdom ?
     
  19. RACarvalho

    RACarvalho New Member

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    The mystery ref. to in Rev. 10:7 is the Popery being the Antichrist system.
    Two major pillars of faith that united all protestants during the reformation was that salvation is by grace and that the popery is the Antichrist.
    Before the reformation some had already hinted that the popery is the antichrist but it was during the reformation that it became clear and it was preached, demonstrated in history and teach to all that were available to listen....
    That was a mystery for, except for II Tess 2, there was not a prophecy stating that the antichrist would be the "leader" of the Christian Church....
     
  20. RACarvalho

    RACarvalho New Member

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    As for the OP question, we are under the Six bow (Rev. 16:13) waiting the gathering for Armagedom to reach it's climax and then the 7th bow will be poured.
    The three forces that are gathering the unbelievers: The Economic power (dragon), the political power (beast) and the False Prophet (the Pope) are working 24/7 to "gather" (Globalization) the people of the world against Jesus and His bride.
    They are advancing at large steps because the Church(Laodicea) is blind by Futurism and not fighting against the Antichrist (popery)...
    Since the media has being the big tool of the devil to deceive people on this, it seems to be reasonable to think that the "air" were the 7th vial will be poured at refs. to the destruction of the media power over the people, which, free from the lies of the media, will "see" all the deception and who was behind it, leading them to finally destroy Rome and the papacy (Chapter 18). Obviously, anything that has not happened is speculation...
     
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