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Featured Do we live near the last days? What does Revelation 18 mean?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Milos, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Milos

    Milos Member

    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    1After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted:
    “ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’18:2 Isaiah 21:9
    She has become a dwelling for demons
    and a haunt for every impure spirit,
    a haunt for every unclean bird,
    a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.
    3For all the nations have drunk
    the maddening wine of her adulteries.
    The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
    and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”
    Warning to Escape Babylon’s Judgment
    4Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
    “ ‘Come out of her, my people,’18:4 Jer. 51:45
    so that you will not share in her sins,
    so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
    5for her sins are piled up to heaven,
    and God has remembered her crimes.
    6Give back to her as she has given;
    pay her back double for what she has done.
    Pour her a double portion from her own cup.
    7Give her as much torment and grief
    as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
    In her heart she boasts,
    ‘I sit enthroned as queen.
    I am not a widow;18:7 See Isaiah 47:7,8.
    I will never mourn.’
    8Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
    death, mourning and famine.
    She will be consumed by fire,
    for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

    There is a woman who is claiming to be God this day. Also there was a man, and another man also claiming to be God. It is all very strange. There have been dozens who have claimed to be God throughout this century alone.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  2. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Some people think that this is a reference to NYC. David Wilkerson use to talk about that. He talked about a day when there would be 1,000 fires in one day/evening in NYC. We have seen this in Detroit and also recently in I think it was Havana when they had the earth quake and there was a lot of fires and a lot of looting. Even people were shot trying to stop them from taking advantage of the situation to steal.

    Of course there was a Babylon in the Bible and when that city was destroyed God said they would never rebuild it. Saddam Hussein tried to rebuild the city but he did not get very far. Everything in the Bible that happened to Isreal is going to happen in the world today. One is a shadow and type of the other.

    I look for the year 2029 to be the 2000 year anniversary or birthday of the Church. Some people believe we are already going through a transition from the Church age to the Kingdom age or the 1,000 year rule and reign of Christ here on Earth where the Government will rest on His shoulders.

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father,Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.…

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  3. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

    There are many reasons why I think these are the last days. This very scholarly, historical and Biblical vid (in my opinion) spells out some major reasons why I believe that. It is not fun to watch. It is about how Islam is really in the Bible in the O.T. and in Revelation. Who beheads people for their Christian faith, for example? Israel is said in the last days to be surrounded by counties that are her enemies. They are all Muslim countries now.

    Revelation talks about a 7th Beast/Empire that has its head/leadership cut off, but comes back to life. The Islamic Caliphate, that ruled the huge and mighty Ottoman Empire, was demolished in WW1. Now it is coming back to life. Muslims are calling for a new Caliphate/uniting leadership, especially Turkey. Of course they are set on world domination.

    Well, if you want to see more, there is the vid.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  4. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    I have found zero value in trying to anticipate the future. Trusting God with our present is difficult enough.

    Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. (Matthew 6:34, 1984 NIV)

    We've been in the "last days" for 2000 years.

    What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. (1 Corinthians 7:29-31, 1984 NIV)

    Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.” (Revelation 12:12, 1984 NIV)

    In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. (Hebrews 1:1-2, 1984 NIV)

    Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. (James 5:3, 1984 NIV)
  5. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

    Yes, the Savior spoke to us in these last days. The words of Revelation are primarily His words. He was trying to prepare us, lest we be caught off guard/
  6. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

    United States
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  7. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

    United States
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  8. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

    United States
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  9. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

    I believe it to be intellectually, emotionally and spiritually unhealthy to live your life in constant speculation about and expectation of the "end times". It is far better to live your life in such a way as to make this a better world, not just for today but into the far distant future.
  10. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

    Just be super careful in this area, I found my self getting caught up in all the end times stuff, and predictions. On YouTube there are thousands of people making predictions and it is easy to get confused by them all if you listen to it. A lot of it is just deceit, not willful deceit, but rather Satan confusing Christians. I got so embarrassed by it all that I asked God about it, at the time I felt he told me the end is not yet, there are some things that need to take place first. I had been declaring that the end was on us, I was most likely wrong.
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  11. anx66

    anx66 Member Supporter

    Jesus said we should keep watch, and told us what would happen in the end times. I think he told us this so that we would persevere, even when under severe trial/persecution. I guess what I am trying to say, is that we should be ready for Christ's coming at any time. Walking in faith expressed as love and doing as Christ would want us to do. Endless speculation about when and how can be distracting from what Jesus has called us to do and be.
  12. anx66

    anx66 Member Supporter

    I don't think the bible points to the world getting better. I think it points to a world getting worse. I think we should be prepared for Jesus return, but constant speculation, as to the detail of the end, does detract from our job at hand of extending God's kingdom. Bringing people into his kingdom and teaching them to love others.
  13. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

    Of course it would not be healthy for anyone to live their life "in constant speculation" about the end times. I don't see anyone here doing that. The OP asked a question, and people are trying to answer it.

    Guess what? A huge portion of the Bible is about the end times, and not just Revelation by any means. Ya think maybe that means there are some messages there for us from our Heavenly Father? Well, some of us do. That doesn't mean we are sitting around biting our nails in a state of constant worry and "speculation". It just means we respect the Word and want to know what it is saying to us.
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  14. Mollie1

    Mollie1 John 3:16 Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

    United Kingdom
    This Thread

    From Christian Advice

    To Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum

    as This is a More Fitting Forum
    for this subject


  15. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    Do we live near the last days?

    I think we are in them. I think they started already but haven't been widely recognized.

    What does Revelation 18 mean?

    It's complicated to understand that we're in these days by the reading of Revelation 18.

    “ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’

    doesn't mean it's out of operation. It's like the five who have fallen, they're still in operation, they're just proven false. Like that phrase "fallen woman.

    We're being told to come out of her, while she is still functioning.

    Babylon is intertwined with "all the nations", with the "kings of the earth". It's what the governments says is right to do, not what God says is right to do.

    The many peoples, "all the nations", got together with the "kings of the earth", and cast their vote about how they want things to be. And the majority of them were motivated by the dragon. So the result is a situation that is not how God said it should be.

    It began with the first beast, the composite beast, rising from the many nations and peoples and tongues. They voted it in, and the dragon stands on the sands of the sea, the many nations and peoples and tongues.

    Here is a glimpse of it in action, and why i think we're almost there.

    The "Days of Lot":

    1) The Netherlands (2000)
    2) Belgium (2003)
    3) canada (2005)
    4) Spain (2005)
    5) South Africa (2006)
    6) Norway (2009)
    7) Sweden (2009)
    8) Argentina (2010)
    9) Iceland (2010)
    10) Portugal (2010)
    11) Denmark (2012)
    12) Brazil (2013)
    13) England and Wales (2013)
    14) France (2013)
    15) New Zealand (2013)
    16) Uruguay (2013)
    17) Luxembourg (2014)
    18) Scotland (2014)
    19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
    20) Ireland: (2015)
    21) United States: (2015)<-------1290------->Sun/Moon
    21) United States: (2015)<-------1290------->EofW

    That's spooky stuff.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  16. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

    United States
    Word of Faith
    I agree. In Rev. 11:1-2 I think this is the man of sin entering Jerusalem (so He can be there to enter the temple) about 3.5 days before the abomination event. It says the city will be trampled by Gentiles for 42 months. I believe the man of sin will enter Jerusalem with Muslim armies. They will trample the city.

    Perhaps, when he takes down 3 nations with kings (probably Muslim nations) perhaps the Jews will imagine he is on their side!)

    Chapter 18 is about the destruction of Mystery Babylon - meaning the city of Jerusalem - during the time that the Beast and False Prophet deceive the entire world from that city.
  17. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

    Its hard to speak about Rev. chapter 18 without speaking of Rev. chapter 17, the two are basically one chapter in reality, because there were no chapters, the translators decided where to make chapters. These two actually go together.

    For starters Revelation chapters 17 and 18 are not real time events, they both happen starting in Rev. ch. 6, in the middle of the 70th week. Rev. 17 is the Judgement of the Harlot, Rev. 18 is Babylon being judged.

    An Angel TALKS to John !!

    Rev. 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

    John is hearing the angel tell him that the Harlot is about to be JUDGED (DESTROYED). She sits on many waters, and has fornicated with KINGS of the World or GOVERNMENTS of the World.

    The Vision John sees in the Wilderness or in his solitude:

    Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, AND with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration [wonderment].

    So what does John see in the Vision, which is the only part of Rev. 17 that is a Vision. Well he saw a Scarlet Colored Beast (Apollyon) full of Blasphemy, having Seven Heads and Ten Horns (Government Beasts of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the coming Anti-Christ Gov. with 10 Kings). Then there is a Woman arrayed in Purple & Scarlet (Royalty & Religious Orders) who flaunts her riches, and golden cups full of abominations. She also has the blood of THE SAINTS (Jewish Saints) AND the blood of the Martyrs of Jesus.

    On her FOREHEAD are 4 Descriptors giving us CLUES who this Women/Harlot is. She is a MYSTERY (but we are told her Secrets from verses 8-18), she is Associated with BABYLON THE GREAT, she is seen as the Mother of Harlots (where she originated) and she is seen as Abominations of the Earth. Then John saw her DRUNKEN with the blood of both THE SAINTS........AND.........The Martyrs of Jesus. When John saw her he did not ADMIRE HER, that's a bad translation, he wondered with AMAZEMENT, or Wonderment !! In other words he marveled at this vision.

    The Four Descriptions are meant to point out who this Harlot is. She has FORNICATED with Kings, she is/was a MYSTERY/Secret because this False Religion moved underground to keep God from pointing it out and destroying it. You know all the Underground Secret Societies etc. etc. She is seen as BABYLON THE GREAT because that is where False Religion flourished. She is seen as the Mother of Harlots because all False Religion sprang forth from the Babylonian model. She is seen as an Abomination because serving False gods is an Abomination unto God.

    She is of course The Harlot which = All False Religion of All Time. She was a part of a Two sided coin, the Harlot rode the Beast, they were in a joint venture so to speak, everywhere the BEAST was found so was False Religion and you know why ? If they had served the one TRUE God, then they would not have been serving False Gods, and all of the Nations I mentioned above served False Gods, thus the Harlot and the Beast(s) were always CO-MINGLED, The Harlot rode the back of the Seven Headed Beast. (False Religion and False Gov.)

    The Angel says I will REVEAL the Mystery unto you.

    7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore (WHY) didst thou marvel? (SEE it should be MARVEL Above) I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.


    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit (Apollyon), and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was,and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And thebeast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

    14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    So in verse 7 the Angel tells us he is going to REVEAL this Great Secret unto us, then in verses 8-18 he does just that. So there is no Mystery Babylon anymore, the Harlot (False Religion) that rides the Gov. Beast is explained. Thus in verse 8 we are told the Scarlet Colored Beast, who WAS....IS NOT... YET IS, stands for Seven Kingdoms which are Seven Mountains (Rulers that Arose above the plains) and they are ALSO 7 KINGS........5 Have fallen, ONE US, and one is NOT YET COME, but when he comes he will rule a SHORT TIME.

    What does this even mean ? God is trying to tell us the LAST BEAST is not a Kingdom but a MAN. Thus he reduces the Kingdoms to KINGS by calling them Mountains or RULERS who have arisen, then in the very next verse he says they are ALSO 7 KINGS....5 Have fallen....ONE IS......and one is NOT YET COME. So we are shown, every Beast had a King at the Helm when it became a BEAST POWER, and every Beast had a King at the helm when it lost its POWER !! But the LAST BEAST will be a Man, he will be at the helm of the End Time Gov. when he becomes THE LAST BEAST [HEAD] and he will be at the helm when Jesus defeats him and then casts him into HELL FIRE, thus he is the ONLY BEAST that has ONE MAN at the helm when it both ARISES & FALLS. This is why God is reducing the KINGDOMS to KINGS !! That takes care of WHO THE BEAST IS !!

    Now as per the Harlot, she sits on many waters (World wide false religions) and the 10 Kings in league with the Beast Government shall HATE THE HARLOT (Remember God is going to JUDGE HER) and destroy her in verse 16, because God put it in THEIR HEARTS to do his will (verse 17). Thus these 10 Kings in league with the Beast do away with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and he tries to kill every Jew, but God protects the 1/3 who REPENT. The Kings in league with the Beast also comes after the Remnant Church, these KIngs desire that ALL MEN Worship the Beast as the ONLY GOD !! Then in verse 18 , the Angel reminds John what he SAW in his Vision (verses 3-6) the Woman (HARLOT) you saw is THAT GREAT CITY..........BABYLON THE GREAT is what was tattooed on her forehead. The Harlot was a MYSTERY RELIGION via Babylon the Great. That is all that quote by the Angel was meant to relay, he wanted John to remember the Vision he saw, to understand what Babylon the Great stood for.

    Babylon of Revelation 18 is speaking of Satan's Dark Kingdom on Earth

    Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

    3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    The header here is that this world is fallen, its become the Habitation of Demons/Devils, Satan is cast down to earth, Apollyon and his horde of Demons are released from the pit. All of the nations have drunk from these abominations, God then calls unto Israel to come out of her [Babylon] that she not partake in her plagues (Rev. 7, the 144000 and Rev. 12 the Woman Flees, same EVENT).

    The Merchants Economy Goes South or is DESTROYED !!

    Rev. 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

    12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

    Babylon = The World getting pelted by God or the Whole Worlds Plagues:

    The KINGS here Cry and Lament Babylon's burning (1/3 trees burn and all the Grasses). The rest of the Plagues of course destroy the Economy of these Merchants. The Seas turn to blood and kill the Fish/Shrimp, etc. The Drinking Waters turn to blood, 1/4 of all men are killed by the Anti-Christ/BEAST and 1/3 of the rest of all men are killed via the 2nd Woe. That puts a dent in the Merchants SELLING POWER doesn't it? Famine, Wars etc. etc. OF COURSE Babylon's (The Whole Worlds) Economy is DESTROYED !! The Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments bring the whole World to its knees !!

    So the Harlot (All False Religion) Rides the Government Beast (Babylon represents the Head of Gold).
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    We are living in the last days - because it is easy to see the forming of Gog/Magog armies aligning with each other.

    Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

    To take place between now and the end of 2030, based on the parable of the fig tree.

    After Gog/Magog, immediately following is the 7 years of Daniel 9:27, which that 7 years climaxes with Jesus's glorious return.


    Revelation 18 is a metaphorical city, not an actual city of the earth.

    Babylon the great is the mystical kingdom of Satan, overshadowing the earth. Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is talking about when in Revelation 12, there is the war in the second heaven, and Satan and his angels cast down to earth.

    The war in the second heaven takes place right after the two witnesses ascend from the earth in Revelation 11, and the 7th trumpet sounds - which is the go signal to enact God's final plan to destroy Satan and his works.

    Revelation 18, is likening the sudden fall of Satan kingdom's to a great trading city, which has preyed upon the souls of men, coming to an abrupt cataclysmic end.
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, prove that the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jewish people for a period of about 7 years, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.
    This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.

    Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner


    From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

    Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

    Daniel 9:27
    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

  20. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's Supporter

    You say you agree with my post. Did you watch the vid? It describes Mecca as being Mystery Babylon. That city is incredibly rich with slaves. It is in a desert by the sea. When it is burned with fire the people watching from the sea throw dust on their heads, which is a Muslim custom. Ain't any way Muslims would mourn over the destruction of Israel, plus Israel is seen as remaining until the Savior returns.

    Mystery Babylon is also called the mother of harlots, or false religions. Though Israel has not been true all the time to the Word, they are no way the mother of false religions.