Do United Methodist Believe Once You're Saved You're Always Saved?

[Rawtheran]

There is a Church of the Nazarene which is in the process of being planted which intends to use Wesley’s Sunday Service Book, and its in Kentucky or Indiana, which is in range of a church I have been offered a job at, which excites me as I would love to visit it on my days off.

Oh really well this is super exciting yeah the COTN has really been just discerning the will of God in terms of just getting out there and establishing new Church plants so that is truly awesome to here I hope that you're finding you experience at the new church plant welcoming and friendly when you are able to visit!

 

[9Rock9]

I don't understand that? By definition wouldn't that preclude you from being an Arminian as Eternal Security violates the 5th Remonstration of Arminianism and the concept of free will?

I think Arminius himself was undecided on the topic, and I imagine that despite how the debates online present themselves, I'm willing to reckon that most Protestant laypeople have a mix of Arminian and Calvinist views.

Being an Arminian but also accepting eternal security is pretty common in the Southern Baptist Convention, but most of us accept eternal security regardless of whether we lean towards Calvinism or Arminianism.

Outside of the SBC, I don't see pro-eternal security Arminians as being too common.

 

[9Rock9]

I am not suggesting there aren't variations in Arminian theology. But if you read the passage carefully that you posted, Arminius seems to be talking about people who are tempted away, etc. There is nothing in Arminianism that suggests a person can't just decide they don't want to be a believer anymore. (And note, I'm also not suggesting that Arminianism now means you always have to agree with Arminius.)

"Once saved always saved" is an absolutist view of "Perseverance of the Saints." Once you are a Christian you can't get out. Your will is apparently captivated and you can't deny Christ if you want to. Worse, it allows people to live like the Devil with no faith at all and be guaranteed salvation just because of a previous profession of faith they declare they themselves may no longer belief in. And that guarantee encourages them not to repent because they don't need to as they can't fall away.

It's the nose of Calvinism pushed under the tent of Arminianism.

Once Saved Always Saved is more complicated than that. Most advocates of the doctrine agree that a true born again believer can't live however they want, and that good works are the result of a genuine saving faith.

They believe that it is impossible for a true believer to apostasize, or lose their salvation as they argue that Jesus died for all the sins you would ever commit, even rejecting the faith, but still decided to accept your sins anyway.

Now, a believer can backslide or renounce his faith, but he can never permanently apostasize because he will be drawn back to God via the Holy Spirit. They don't believe the backsliding Christian has lost their salvation, because the Holy Spirit dwells within them, and if they lost it, then there is no getting your salvation back. It's argued that if someone does fully reject Christ and never repents of it, then he was never actually saved to be gone with.

 

[Rawtheran]

Once Saved Always Saved is more complicated than that. Most advocates of the doctrine agree that a true born again believer can't live however they want, and that good works are the result of a genuine saving faith.

They believe that it is impossible for a true believer to apostasize, or lose their salvation as they argue that Jesus died for all the sins you would ever commit, even rejecting the faith, but still decided to accept your sins anyway.

Now, a believer can backslide or renounce his faith, but he can never permanently apostasize because he will be drawn back to God via the Holy Spirit. They don't believe the backsliding Christian has lost their salvation, because the Holy Spirit dwells within them, and if they lost it, then there is no getting your salvation back. It's argued that if someone does fully reject Christ and never repents of it, then he was never actually saved to be gone with.

Another logical argument that should be made in favor of Eternal Security would be how can a believer who has genuinely experienced the New Birth and has become indwelled by the Holy Spirit suddenly become unindwelt or unregenerated? Say they do according to the classical Arminian argument apostasize and reject the faith but then all of a sudden come back then does that mean they have to repeat the process of becoming saved all over again? Furthermore, if a Christian were to apostatize truly then that would make the work of God in a person's life meaningless because why would God save someone, who he already foreknew would reject him anyway? The New Birth is a permanent change that cannot be undone once the decision to follow Christ and become born again is made.