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Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by 1stcenturylady, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The law is never in conflict with itself? Not according to Jesus.

    Matthew 12:2-5
    When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
    3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

    John 7:23
    Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?
     
  2. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Jesus always upheld the Sabbath, He did not follow the Rabbi's rendering if it, but God's. Please state the verse where Jesus states the Sabbath is done away with.
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Jesus declared the Sabbath as "done away" with actions, not words.
    Those who were witness to those actions got the message very clearly.

    John 9:16
    Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

    John 5:18
    For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

    Mark 3:2
    Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath.

    Luke 6:7
    The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath.
     
  4. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Which is more holy the showbread baked by the priests on earth or the "manna from heaven" (Exodus 16:35)? Is it really unlawful for the children of Israel to eat "bread from heaven" as they walked by faith in the wilderness? Are not all those who honor Torah considered a "kingdom of royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:9) or do you not know that David is a son of Abraham? David is a son of Abraham; Abraham built and worshipped at the altar which in turn makes Abraham a priest and David the son of a priest! Everyone who honors the law know that a man may become a priest so as long as their father is a priest. As I keep saying to you; you don't practice the law so you can't possibly understand it. You speak of things you don't understand. The "law of Moses is not broken" (as Yeshua says) when an 8 day old boy is circumcised during the Sabbath day; yet you say that the Sabbath law was given by Moses? You contradict yourself trying to disannul the law of Moses! You hypocrite! Although the Sabbath was never established by Moses but YHWH. This is truly what Yeshua is saying to the Pharisees.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  5. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Matthew 5:17
     
  6. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Jesus gave the Sabbath with words---both spoken and written with His own hand and He did nothing to abolish it, He upheld it as God had intended it to be not as the Rabbis had made it. And it is by word that it will be abolished. No man--no matter how important he may be, has the authority to alter the word of God--either spoken nor written. He healed on the Sabbath, He did not break the written and spoken word of God. He broke only what man declared.
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    No, I don't say that at all.
    I say the Sabbath was given to the Israelites alone by God through Moses in Exodus chapter sixteen.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Your argument is with Jesus, not with me.

    Jesus said eating "the consecrated bread" was "not lawful for them to do".
    But what do you say?

    Jesus said "the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath..."
    But what do you say?

    Matthew 12:2-5
    When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
    3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
     
  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    What are "the Law or the Prophets"? (books)

    Luke 24:44
    He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Where does the law authorize the work of healing on the Sabbath day of rest?
    And don't tell me it isn't work. Jesus declared it as work.

    John 5:16-18
    So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
     
  11. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Yeshua called the Pharisees hypocrites. You have serious reading comprehension issues and you lack Torah practice. This combination leads you to make errors. Yeshua never made it unlawful for David to eat "bread from heaven" . Yeshua says that it was unlawful for David to eat the showbread baked or "made ready" by the priest during the Sabbath (Leviticus 24:8). Yeshua is not saying what you ignorantly think he is saying. The Pharisees know what Yeshua is saying that is why they wisely dropped the argument as you "pick it up" (you gather up these sticks of contention to kindle a fiery argument) which is unlawful to do on the Sabbath 2000 years later.
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I gather up these sticks of contention? A violation of Sabbath wood gathering? Seriously?

    You sidestepped my question: Are you saved, or do you have to "endure to the end" to find out?

    Jesus was agreeing with his accusers. And implicating himself. "David... and his companions..."

    Matthew 12:2-5
    When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
    3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
     
  13. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Notice how after Yeshua gave his answer; the hypocrites dropped the argument without questioning him as you do with me. You can learn from the Pharisees silence. Yet you more than 2000 years later are much worse than the Pharisees because you don't understand the legal argument that you are reading and posting about. You teach the doctrines of men. Did Yeshua go around asking everybody if they were saved? Please reread Matthew 12:5 the "priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath yet are INNOCENT". Yeshua says the priests are INNOCENT! Which means they never profaned the Sabbath.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  14. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Where does it state you are not to take care of those in need? Where does it mention travel? Taking care of the needy is part of love. God is love. Loving God means you do as He says, loving others means you help them. That includes animals. Not complicated.
     
  15. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    You bear false witness against Yeshua! I have warned you of this before!
     
  16. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    You rail because you do not understand nor do you want to...

    "How much then is a man of more value than a sheep! Wherefore it is lawful to do good on the sabbath day. "
     
  17. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    These people don’t care. They are happy following their lawless messiah who teaches them to live a life of disobedience.
     
  18. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog I am a Christian mutt. You can call me Rox

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    I'm thinking you are trying to make these Christians think deeper but you are hurting your own witness. Tell them where you were this morning and every Sunday morning?
    You are trifling with their walk and yours,
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Jesus is using the example of the priests desecrating the Sabbath to explain what his disciples (and himself by implication) were doing. And the example of what -- David -- and his companions were doing that was unlawful to explain what they were doing. Both not lawful and desecrating according to Jesus explanation. Since he was Lord of the Sabbath, he could do as he pleased. He was not under the law, he was above it.

    Matthew 12:2-5
    When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
    3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
     
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The commandment is to not do any work.
    Jesus confirmed that healing on the Sabbath was work.

    John 5:16-18
    So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
     
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