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Do People Believe Homosexuality Still Abomination To God?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Bro.T--2, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    This whole interminable discussion started with "God hates homosexuality", based on Leviticus calling it an abomination. It's not unreasonable to want to know what the original said. When you look at that, the answer seems to be God hates anal sex, in the same way that he hates failure to distinguish clean and unclean animals.

    That's the simple reading comprehension BobRyan refers to. But knowing what the text says isn't the complete answer. Just how that applies to us isn't so obvious, since we don't distinguish between clean and unclean animals. Why not? Because Christians generally see reasons that the Leviticus holiness code doesn't apply to us.

    It does raise interesting questions. Did God actually hate eating unclean animals, or do he hate Israelites' eating unclean animals because he had made a specific covenant with them? I think Christians typically take the second position. Personally I think the author of Leviticus took the first position, that God actually did hate the failure to distinguish between clean and unclean animals. The wider context makes that pretty clear. But since conservative Christians think every word of the Bible is eternally true, they have to reject the idea that Biblical authors might have been wrong about something, or that God might have changed his mind, so we start down the path of ignoring what the text really meant in the original context.

    That path isn't so unusual. 1st Cent Jews, modern Jews, Jesus, and the Catholic Church until the last few hundred years took the same non-literal approach. (Look at Luke 20:42, and imagine what would happen to you if you used that kind of exegesis in a modern seminary exegesis class, whether conservative or liberal. But this was typical of Jewish exegesis.) They didn't treat the Bible as an historical document, but as a living document. Interpretations adapted it, sometimes by very "creative" approaches, to current needs. But if we take that approach, then the whole fundamentalist enterprise collapses, along with a lot of liberal historical interpretation.

    At that point we have to do what most Jews and Christians did throughout history, and creatively interpret the Bible so it supports Christ's goal of loving God and our neighbor, even if a literal reading of the text as the author would have understood it might not support that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  2. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God morals don't change, even if israel had stricter rules, the new testament talks about this too.

    So think, what is the fair thing christian should do, to listen to the people that saw Jesus himself and lived with him as disciples or todays corrupt society?
    This people is who wrote the gospels too, the good news available to people. Jesus is in there and lives today the same Jesus that they talked about.
     
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  3. Bro.T

    Bro.T Bible Christian Supporter

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    Actually there's a scriptures that supports what you saying. Let's go to the prophets Isaiah 8: 16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
    17 And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. We have to use both books Old and New Testament, Genesis to Revelation.
     
  4. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Why don't you try the New Covenant? Because of Jesus' death we have a different covenant with God that is dependent on His grace and forgiveness, not on the Old Covenant laws.
     
  5. Bro.T

    Bro.T Bible Christian Supporter

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    Let's take a into Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; So lets take a look and see what we must do and how we must receive forgiveness through the blood to the riches of his grace. Paul will break this down in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

    So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts1:36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16). So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you people must put in check.
     
  6. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    You people? Of course, you are exempt because you are so much better than the rest of us.

    I have an idea: why don't you get baptized every day so that all your sins are removed by your own "works"? That's what I do. I take off all my clothes then immerse myself in a porcelain tub of hot water. I come out "clean" (after doing the "works" of washing) every time!

    I have read a lot of posts on various forums; this is one of the most ridiculous posts ever. Read your Bible and open your mind to God's truth instead of making up your own, then judging others by your false doctrine.
     
  7. Bro.T

    Bro.T Bible Christian Supporter

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    "And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).
     
  8. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Baptized once. Get it?

    BTW, quoting two verses from one gospel won't send anybody to hell. Nice try!
     
  9. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    There are two problems with this quote. First, it's not part of the actual text of Mark. Second, the word is "condemned." It refers to something or someone that merits punishment, but doesn't imply what the punishment is.
     
  10. Bro.T

    Bro.T Bible Christian Supporter

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    Well...since you mention punishment, let us go into Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
     
  11. Philipp Zehetmaier

    Philipp Zehetmaier New Member

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    Of course do I believe that homosexuality is an abominable sin. Back in those times, people of all nations had sinned, but the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah had SEVERELY sinned against the Lord.

    However, Christians have been so passive in resisting the ongoing glorification of the abominable sodomite sin, so that the freemasonized and illuminatized Global Agenda had been able to erect a dictatorship of homos, where everyone who says anything against them gets muzzled. Who do they think they are?

    I'm convinced that COVID-19 is just the beginning of the wrath of God because of the end time condition of the days of Noah and of Sodom and Gomorrah.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  12. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    You forgot to include that great bogeyman, John D. Rockefeller.
     
  13. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    If I believed that was the case, I would not eat lobster. Luckily for those that are absolutely determined to eat lobster, Jesus( Matt 15:11) seems to have directly told us that what we eat does not defile us. Paul (Romans 14:2) also seems to suggest that the eating process is not really an issue.
     
  14. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Why are you so angrily opposed to this one sin (which is mentioned far less than many other sins in the Bible)? Do you actually believe that Christians of all nations should unite against a global homo dictatorship! Do you have a single shred of evidence that this is happening?

    May God have mercy on your soul!
     
  15. Philipp Zehetmaier

    Philipp Zehetmaier New Member

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  16. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    The Ten Commandments are considered to be the basis of the OT law. Among the laws stated is the only one that mentions sexual activity: do not commit adultery. If you believe that homosexuality is such a grievous sin, why isn't it mentioned in the Ten Commandments?

    Please read my signature below...
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Matt 15 and Mark 7:6-13 are not about eating rats or cats or lobsters etc.. It is about eating wheat, bread (not even animal at all) - the issue was getting bread from the market place where there was a tradition among Jewish leaders of baptizing the cups, pots and fingers to remove any "sin" that might be one them. Because in theory if you eat food that has "sin ON it" then that sin would get inside you.

    In Mark 7:6-13 and in Matt 15 Jesus said that this is not how a person becomes defiled with sin - he was not arguing for rat-sandwiches or any other such thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  18. Philipp Zehetmaier

    Philipp Zehetmaier New Member

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    As I already mentioned, this sin had been so severe that it led to the destruction of two cities, while all other people on the earth had also sinned.

    The fact that it isn't mentioned so much among members of the people of Israel is because it was forbidden to them according to the Book of Deuteronomy and therefore no big deal to the Israelites.
    But when the Apostles began to deal with the Greeks, they had to mention it again (Romans 1:26 - 27), for it was an ongoing practice in ancient Greece (for example, in the 6th century B.C. lesbians flocked to the Island of Lesbos the lesbian poet Sappho lived thereon, and lesbians got their name from.

    Concerning homo dictatorship. Hasn't the LGBT been eager to impose laws on every former Christian Country which muzzles anyone to say anything, spite the fact that there's a constitutional right of free speech?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    OT Law included things like --

    "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
    "Honor your father and Mother" Ex 20:12, Eph 6:1-2
    "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22
    "do not covet" Ex 20, Romans 7
    "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18, Rom 13, Matt 19,

    Rom 3:19-20 says this is what condemns all the lost, and Rom 3:31 says this is also the law that is "established" in the case of those who are born-again saints, written on the heart as Jeremiah says - under the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34

    Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
     
  20. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe in executing the death penalty for all homosexuals according to Sharia law?
     
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