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Do not quote Bible to atheists.

Discussion in 'Congregation-specific Ethics' started by Skitnik, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Skitnik

    Skitnik New Member

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    Christians must understand that to an atheist quoting from the Bible as a proof of existence of God is like quoting from Wizard of Oz to prove that flying monkeys exist.

    You just reenforce their beliefs. They snicker and say "Ha, ha! All they have are the tails from the book that tells about unicorns too".

    That is one of most common arguments they use and you are playing right into it!

    By the way "Unicorn" is a mistranslation in King James of "One horned animal" which is an African rhino known in those areas.
     
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  2. jacks

    jacks Er Victus Supporter

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    I think in general your sentiment is right. However, there are passages in the bible that speak to everyone, even those who don't believe. I remember before I was a Christian Ecclesiastics, Proverbs and Psalms all spoke volumes to me. However, you're correct quoting verses like John 3:16 to me meant nothing until I was saved.
     
  3. frater_domus

    frater_domus Faith is all that matters. Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I agree. Sometimes I even avoid mentioning trigger words like Church or Jesus. While the topic eventually converges on Jesus, it rarely starts that way. Talking with those, who are unsure and merely suffer from misconceptions about Christianity, it usually a game of avoiding triggers and carefully tip-toe our way through that cultural minefield. After we have managed to traverse that, they will usually listen.
    Well, skeptics and people who are unsure will. Proclaimed atheists will not and I wouldn't waste time talking to them. We are to give to pearls to swine. Not that atheists are swine, but we ought not to give what is valuable to those who will not see its value and mishandle it.

    But in the all other cases, remember that Jesus also said that we are to be shrewd as serpents. If that means directing the conversation to avoid triggering a cultural stigma, so be it. I see no issue with that, as long as we are truthful and not manipulative ;)
     
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  4. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Its called conviction

    You tell them what the bible says, then when there eyes are open in there time of need they know scripture.

    No one repents as your telling them scripture.
     
  5. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    I do believe that as the Scriptures say, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

    However, we do not "cause the increase" or the growth, so to speak. Only God can do that. (1 Corinthians 3:6-8)

    We are faithful when we simply share the Gospel and encourage people to "search the Scriptures", as the "noble-minded" Bereans did. (Acts 17:11)

    The rest is out of our hands. There are many who won't hear, and that is ultimately known only to God, who alone sees the heart. God is also the only One Who can change a person's heart, we cannot.

    In regard to your side note about the word "unicorn" being a "mistranslation", we can see that it actually isn't when we look at the root of the word itself.

    Unicorn: Origin - Latin - "uni" (single) "cornu" (horn) = "single horn".

    Middle English: via Old French from Latin unicornis, from uni- ‘single’ + cornu ‘horn,’ translating Greek monokerōs .

    The word has come to be understood as signifying a horse with a single horn growing out of its forehead, but this isn't necessarily the only meaning for the word.
     
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  6. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Agreed , you have to deal with preoppositions in apologetics , perhaps I could find one of old videos where guy is just crushing world views of non Christian believers .

    Title of video found in youtube is "Reasoning With Unbelievers - Dr. Greg Bahnsen"

    I would post directly but don't know if i'm permitted to :cool1:
     
  7. section9+1

    section9+1 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Jesus came for lost sheep. Those who are searching and learning and trying to understand. The rest are wolves, swine, dogs, tares, vipers. He never said he came for the lost wolves. Anyone can be saved, but first the wolf must transform himself into a sheep. Then God can reach him. Until then he remains a predator and must be excluded.
     
  8. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    Actually it's an aurochs. But there are some KJVO literalists who refuse to accept it being anything other than a literal unicorn.
     
  9. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    if an Atheist, r anyone brings up God, Bible verses, etc. i am more than willing to share Bible verses.

    Read the quote in my signature that most applies to this.
     
  10. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Most of the time when Atheist brings up God he is attacking Bible using moral values like good/bad/evil/God murdered ect. You disarm him with showing that there are no moral values in his world view and then attack back that's what i found working . They won't convert on spot but they will think about it and it will eat them up .
     
  11. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    I consider it an invitation from an Atheist or anyone who brings up God, the Bible, etc., to speak on God, and of course His Word. Since i'm clearly a Christian they would already be aware of my belief in God and His Word when they bring it up.

    It's not my problem, brother. It's God's problem at that point, and i just ask Him what He's going to do, and is there anything i should do?

    In the meantime i just un-leash those Bible verses.

    They know what to do.

    God's Word never ever returns to Him void.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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  12. Kevin Snow

    Kevin Snow Well-Known Member

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    This is not wisdom. As it is, the greatest sign for unbelievers is the fact that scripture is true which means it is self consistent. Therefore it is wise to point believers to what the truth actually looks like and how it actually works through scripture. We are all seeking for the truth aren't we? If you are talking to someone who does not care to get the truth then you ought to walk away from them. Whether you believe or not, seeking the truth should be the common ground for all people.
     
  13. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Can be, because of trying to defend theories like 156 hour creation or even an extreme like flat Earth...

    Instead do as Christ instructed! in Mark chapter 4, and which is helpfully explained in Romans 10:17 --

    And works in times we can't know, as our Teacher explained:
    Mark 4 NIV

    .
     
  14. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi S91, where does the Bible teach that :scratch:

    Thanks!

    --David
    p.s. - the Bible does tell us things like this however (see the verses/passages below). St. Paul's description of a non-believer (as a "natural" man or woman in 1 Cor 2:14) is a apt one, as is his description of those outside of Christ as ones who are spiritually "dead" (Eph 2:1-3). This raises the question then, if it is necessary for us to "transform ourselves into sheep" (and thereby make ourselves worthy of saving), how can we, who are "dead", do that, since the dead can "do" nothing?

    Ezekiel 36
    26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
    27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

    Mark 2
    17 Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners".

    John 3
    3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    John 6
    44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

    Acts of the Apostles 13
    48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

    Romans 3
    10 as it is written,
    “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
    11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
    THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
    12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
    THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
    THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

    Romans 4
    5 To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

    1 Corinthians 2
    14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

    Ephesians 2
    1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
    2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
    3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
    4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

    10 We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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  15. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    If we are not using Scripture we are just using human reasoning and that will never get them saved.
    I was an atheist until a man spoke Psalms 19:1 to me.
    I would say when using a Scripture be sure that is the one that God wants you to use.
    After all our goal is not to get them believe that God exists, but to get them saved.
    There are no true atheists, they might think they are, but the old adage "there are no atheists in fox holes" is true.
    Romans 1:20 says that everybody knew God at some point.
     
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  16. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not human reasoning. If they laugh, they laugh, I'm sure the Israelite's laughed at Noah too. They also used human reason to deduce from the past experiences of the climate that the probability of a flood was statistically an impossibility.
     
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  17. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    Don't use scripture as a foundation to debate the existence of God.*

    Do use scripture to tell them how much God loves them.

    (*Don't debate period. It's a complete waste of your time. Have an outcome in mind for God's kingdom, however small, and singuarly strive for that outcome through conversation. Don't depart from it.

    Scripture is not considered "from God" because it says it's fom God, it's considered "from God" because God exists and scripture describes Him. When people become Christians through scripture they apprehend that God exists, and they observe that scripture describes what they apprehend. There is a two part relationship there, so go at it with both parts in mind.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  18. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    I leave that up to God. It is God that they have invited into the exchange whether they realize it or not. Not "me". (In the meantime i'm praying the entire time)

    God knows what HE is doing with His Word.

    This is not about "us".

    It's about "God".

    Amen?
     
  19. section9+1

    section9+1 Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was all over the bible. It's called repentance. Seeking, knocking, asking, turning, All these things take place before salvation. An alcoholic will never be cured until he admits he is an alcoholic. Only then can he be redeemed. The well do not need a physician. Only the sick. Wolves do not need a savior; only sheep need one. A wolf can wear sheep's clothing, but he remains a wolf and the shepherd regards him as an enemy. A leopard cannot change his spots. He must cease being a leopard before he can change.
     
  20. havevisions

    havevisions Active Member

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    Thanks, there are some good suggestions in the posts above.

    I’ve struggled often in talking with atheists, and I don’t consider myself very successful in changing their minds. Many of the posters are correct in their assessments in that the reading of scripture and relying on the Holy Spirit is our only recourse, because only He can bring a person to salvation.

    One should not resort to scientific arguments, because in my experience they have been well versed in the nuclear physics and quantum mechanics, and when one goes down that path, it is a dead end. Most atheists love to talk about evolution, so don't do that either.

    I’ve tried to use Pascal’s Wager to combat their Occam’s Razer arguments, and I’ve found that philosophical arguments don’t work either. Its best to keep it simple.

    An atheist is one who believes that there is no absolute morality, and that a deity is not needed to have a happy and fulfilled life. They believe in only the physical universe, and all laws that exist are the ones that are provable with the scientifically established ones. So, morality is a built-in facet that has evolved from eons for survival of the species; therefore there is no a need for a moral lawgiver.

    In fact the ideas of soul, spirit, and afterlife are nonexistent. Right and wrong are innate, rational, and self-evident. Consequently, there is no ultimate authority to give account to except oneself. The idea of a “god” is extraneous.

    Some will call themselves freethinkers: “Freethinkers (also sometimes referred to as non-theists) see no pride in the blind maintenance of ancient superstitions or self-effacing prostration before divine tyrants known only through primitive "revelations." Freethought is respectable. Freethought is truly free.”

    Of course, I disagree with their thinking.
     
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