Do nice/good guys finish last?

Erbard1

New Member
May 16, 2022
2
1
31
Indiana
✟8,819.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Hello!
My name is Ethan, and I’ve had a question stuck in my head and occasionally has caused me to not get to sleep when I should. Basic summation of movie I saw. Two guys save a princess and the first guy and her develop a High school crush with each other but the second guy has zero to little interest in her whatsoever. He’s rougher around the edges, challenging, a bit harsh and occasionally a jerk and at the end of the movie on into the second she falls for the second guy. My question is: I’m always the first one, good guy, try to be a gentleman, but end up losing out to the second.
Do I have to change and be like the second? More challenging, slightly a jerk, harsher then a good guy in order to find and keep someone and do we good guys finish last?
 

aksumite

ወንጌልን እመኑ
May 15, 2022
1
0
21
Lalibela
✟8,003.00
Country
Ethiopia
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Yes if you keep calling yourself a good guy. I'd say just acting normally around someone you like if they don't fall for you then they don't like your personality, that's fine, in the end, there is always someone who will, you don't have to pretend to not care about somebody, especially if you're getting this idea from a movie.
 
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
20,771
17,881
USA
✟950,392.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Pattern your behavior after Christ not films. The good guy/bad guy dilemma is over sold. Here’s the problem from God’s perspective. Only the truth sets us free. Lies and enabling keep us bound.

I want a companion who’s not afraid to tell the truth. Not someone enamored with my person who believes I can do no wrong. And it exists on both sides.

We should be bettered by our companions. Only iron sharpens iron. Yes men are impediments to personal and spiritual growth. They tell us what we want to hear or what tickles the ear.

I don’t need that. I need to be edified. I want to know where I’m falling short. And that isn’t possible if you’re clueless.

Some of the “good guy” complaints are copouts. Many have low self-esteem and allow women to run over them. They do everything she asks and says without challenge and wonder why she’s gone.

Most women will never respect a man without a backbone. You can’t agree to everything or be silent when she errs. And white knighting isn’t ideal for finding a spouse. When they get on their feet they usually leave. You remind them of the past.

Be the God-fearing man He designed you to be. And find a God-fearing woman who values it. That’s your roadmap. If you follow wordly principles you’ll end up with their results.

Good luck on your search.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,713
6,138
Massachusetts
✟586,258.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well, you certainly do not want to have a movie character be your role model. So, I would say don't be like the nice guy or the rough guy.

But yes we have God's word about how to become and to love and how to relate with other maturing Jesus people. So, you need to invest in sharing with various other Christian people who help you to grow in Jesus. And feed on how God's word says to do this. So, then you are not trying to just get isolated with some person who is more like you or who likes you.

After all, if we are Christians, we are growing and developing in our personalities. We will not be the same people, even in a year from now. So, if someone falls in love for you the way you are now, that can be out-of-date very soon because of you growing and developing and discovering new interests which God brings you to.

The other person needs to be able to tell the difference, so that person is not only falling for you, but growing in Jesus and becoming more and more family with God's people . . . not only liking and preferring you who will be soon out-of-date if you are growing in Jesus.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: linux.poet
Upvote 0

angelsaroundme

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,630
1,331
33
Georgia
✟141,129.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I think part of the confusion comes from the difference between friends with a woman versus being in a romantic relationship with a woman. If you're just friends, being honest with your feelings is usually acceptable. But for dating or marriage, being too emotional will often be seen as a sign of weakness.

This opens up another question. What if you aren't sure if in the future you might want to date her? Or what if she ends up knowing the woman you want to be serious with, and she tells them you cried about such and such or have a lot of doubts?

As a general rule, it's better not to be too emotional with people, as it could give you a reputation. Of course, I'm not saying you can't cry if your relative or pet dies. Those are exceptions.
 
Upvote 0

DragonFox91

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2020
5,025
3,138
32
Michigan
✟215,243.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one
----Romans 3

In regards to do they prefer non-believers or believers, yes
 
Upvote 0

linux.poet

Electric Nightfall
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
2,085
1,060
Poway
✟203,424.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
I think part of the confusion comes from the difference between friends with a woman versus being in a romantic relationship with a woman. If you're just friends, being honest with your feelings is usually acceptable. But for dating or marriage, being too emotional will often be seen as a sign of weakness.
While I agree that may be true out in the world, I actually am attracted to a guy’s emotions. Especially if he doesn’t share them with other people and only with me…oh boy.

Is this unusual?

For a friend, I actually could care less about his feelings and for the most part, he doesn’t express them to me, that’s how it works. But for a potential marriage partner, I want his honest emotional truth so that it doesn’t surprise me later. So when a guy starts telling me all about his feelings, that makes me think that he’s interested in more than friends, because he’s triggering my attractions and my inbuilt compassion for male humanity. Emotional intimacy is usually a prelude to the physical sort, is it not?

If he’s trying to be emotionally distant from me while pursuing the physical, that’s a sign that he’s objectifying me and he doesn’t care about me as a person or what I have to offer him. Emotional intimacy and honesty and integrity is a big part of what I offer to a marriage partner. If he doesn’t want that, maybe he should find someone else who better gives him what he wants.

On the other hand, if guys expect to be emotionally distant from their marriage partners, I suppose my approach of getting to know them as friends and then becoming interested as I go along could come as an emotional shock to them, if what you are saying is in any way true, and that does line up with my experience a little bit. But too bad lol. The only way I can think of to mitigate the shock is throwing a bit more honesty at the problem.
 
Upvote 0

angelsaroundme

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,630
1,331
33
Georgia
✟141,129.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
While I agree that may be true out in the world, I actually am attracted to a guy’s emotions. Especially if he doesn’t share them with other people and only with me…oh boy.

Is this unusual?

For a friend, I actually could care less about his feelings and for the most part, he doesn’t express them to me, that’s how it works. But for a potential marriage partner, I want his honest emotional truth so that it doesn’t surprise me later. So when a guy starts telling me all about his feelings, that makes me think that he’s interested in more than friends, because he’s triggering my attractions and my inbuilt compassion for male humanity. Emotional intimacy is usually a prelude to the physical sort, is it not?

If he’s trying to be emotionally distant from me while pursuing the physical, that’s a sign that he’s objectifying me and he doesn’t care about me as a person or what I have to offer him. Emotional intimacy and honesty and integrity is a big part of what I offer to a marriage partner. If he doesn’t want that, maybe he should find someone else who better gives him what he wants.

On the other hand, if guys expect to be emotionally distant from their marriage partners, I suppose my approach of getting to know them as friends and then becoming interested as I go along could come as an emotional shock to them, if what you are saying is in any way true, and that does line up with my experience a little bit. But too bad lol. The only way I can think of to mitigate the shock is throwing a bit more honesty at the problem.
When I was saying men being emotional I mean things like crying or being overly negative on a consistent basis. I also suspect it's quite different psychologically for women to hear about a man crying versus seeing it in person. A man crying rarely, shows he is a real person with emotions, while crying often makes most women think twice about him, that maybe he is weak or a mess.

What you are describing might be sharing passions. Like being at a church with a guy and him being really into the worship service. Being passionate and being confident has a lot of overlap. Not all men will raise their hands in worship, because it can seem vulnerable, but being vulnerable in the right way with confidence can be attractive. There is also a difference between openness in a positive way (This song is so meaningful to me) and negative way (I really hate this genre of music), but if the latter is couched in comedy, many find that appealing. Comedy can be a good way to handle emotions for men. Yet it is tricky for very moral people as comedy is almost always at the expense of someone or something.

I can understand what you are saying. A lot of men will view being too honest as risky though, because they might be judged for liking anime or whatever else it might be. I suppose what you could do is share things first, like what you are into, and then they might open up.
 
Upvote 0

Saucy

King of CF
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2005
46,668
19,835
Michigan
✟837,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Other posters said it well, but just be yourself. Don't try to change yourself into the "bad" guy so you will attract someone. Women are attracted to all sorts of guys. Yes, some like the bad guy, but others like the sensitive guys. A relationship built on deceit will never last.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: linux.poet
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

angelsaroundme

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,630
1,331
33
Georgia
✟141,129.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
The better question is why do Christian guys finish last? I've been struggling w/ that question the last few days.
Many Christian guys are dating/married. I haven't seen data showing a great difference in men being single as Christian rather than non-Christian.

If that were the case though, one reason could be hesitation. Christian guys with a traditional mindset think in the long term. They are looking for the woman they can marry and have kids with. This causes them to be more selective. Maybe they had a chance to date a woman and said no because they doubted she was a good match. Maybe they waited too long to ask her out, unsure if they were compatible, and by the time they figured they were, another dude was already with her.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: bèlla
Upvote 0

linux.poet

Electric Nightfall
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
2,085
1,060
Poway
✟203,424.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
Matthew 20:16
This verse is talking about believers in Christ through the ages. Some of the last people to accept Christ will be first in the Kingdom, and some of the first people to accept Christ will be last. This is the anti-Lessing’s Ditch verse.

When I was saying men being emotional I mean things like crying or being overly negative on a consistent basis. I also suspect it's quite different psychologically for women to hear about a man crying versus seeing it in person. A man crying rarely, shows he is a real person with emotions, while crying often makes most women think twice about him, that maybe he is weak or a mess.
This is true of everyone, though. If I see a fellow woman crying frequently and spouting negative comments, I’m going to think that she has something psychological going on and that something is wrong in her life. It has nothing to do with male/female.

What you are describing might be sharing passions. Like being at a church with a guy and him being really into the worship service.
Kind of haha. It’s more like when I see what another guy is doing or talking and something clicks emotionally. Chess is probably going to be an overused example pretty soon, but I gave a guy an update on my chess progress and he said “I like hearing this”. My response “I like that you like hearing this.” And I did. But that guy was very clear that he wanted to be no more than friends before that happened, and I agreed that was best, so I put my feelings away.

An unbeliever who was trying to manipulate me told me that he just wanted to touch me (the context was him wanting some kind of emotional impact on me too), and my response was “aww stop”. I shut him down soon thereafter. I think we were sharing a conversation about psychology that was interesting, but it wasn’t worth it. If it had been a believer in Christ who said that, I might have actually offered him a little hug though. I know what it is like to want to touch someone and not get to.

That was an unnerving episode because he kept saying “I like this, I don’t like this, this is against my values, I hate this” and so on, in response to the information I was sharing with him. It’s really sharing any sort of emotion with me and asking me to empathize with your point of view.

Sharing pain and trouble can trigger my compassion too. If you want another example, go over to “29 and never dated” and read my reply to DragonFox. Now obviously I know he’s not into me because he wears his emotions on his sleeve in this forum and spills them to everyone (and also that is against the rules), but it still affects me a little bit. I’m a human being too. I hope he finds his girl. That whole thread is Mr. Fox asking me to empathize with his pain by telling me an emotionally loaded story, or at least how it read to me. Another couple of guys told the story of their pain and that got to me when they did, too, much more severely. I know where all of my weaknesses are lol.

I’m sharing that unbeliever episode because not only does it clarify my point about emotional sharing, but it also might prove insightful about why Christian women might fall for unbelievers. Not that I am inclined that way. Au revoir, unbeliever manipulative rascals! Go find another unbeliever woman to take advantage of and leave pregnant on the side of the road! I want to be married to a good Christian man and raise my intelligent children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord! Away with you! :p

I read the book Every Young Woman’s Battle growing up and it said that women are wired for emotional intimacy and that is what we most want. While I definitely can’t speak for all women on the subject, I know that is definitely true for me personally. That’s why I hate emotional manipulators and abusers so much.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Saucy

King of CF
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2005
46,668
19,835
Michigan
✟837,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
This verse is talking about believers in Christ through the ages. Some of the last people to accept Christ will be first in the Kingdom, and some of the first people to accept Christ will be last. This is the anti-Lessing’s Ditch verse.
.
I know ;)
 
Upvote 0

Sketcher

Born Imperishable
Feb 23, 2004
38,984
9,400
✟380,049.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Hello!
My name is Ethan, and I’ve had a question stuck in my head and occasionally has caused me to not get to sleep when I should. Basic summation of movie I saw. Two guys save a princess and the first guy and her develop a High school crush with each other but the second guy has zero to little interest in her whatsoever. He’s rougher around the edges, challenging, a bit harsh and occasionally a jerk and at the end of the movie on into the second she falls for the second guy. My question is: I’m always the first one, good guy, try to be a gentleman, but end up losing out to the second.
Do I have to change and be like the second? More challenging, slightly a jerk, harsher then a good guy in order to find and keep someone and do we good guys finish last?
They do tend to like the second rather than the first, but it's not as simple as acting like the second guy for a couple of reasons.
  • The second guy probably has other qualities that allow him to get away with acting that way and still retaining her interest which the first does not have. Social insight, especially. He knows when to act like a jerk and when not to, and still keep her interested.
  • When the first guy just acts like the second guy, he tends to do so badly and he still doesn't get any girls.
There are people who write books and give workshops making money off of the first guy, claiming to help them be like the second. However, their relationship priorities are not the same as mine. They claim that it can help you attract the right woman to marry, but if their relationship priorities are pump-and-dump, then they're going to teach you how to go after women who are not fit to marry, and pump-and-dump them. This will degrade your ability to meet women who are fit to marry since you're keyed into getting the women who aren't, and it will degrade your ability to be a good husband if you ever do meet her because that lifestyle changes your mind and soul for the worse. If you want to get married, look at the marriage track record for some of these guys. For every one of them that I know about, it's less than impressive.

The better question is why do Christian guys finish last? I've been struggling w/ that question the last few days.
Christian guys very often don't finish last. More ladies around my age that I have known married in the church than outside of it. My problem is that none of them wanted me.
 
Upvote 0

Paulie079

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 5, 2014
1,382
1,767
34
✟238,749.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So it is probably helpful here to define "finishing last" as not getting the girl. That seems to be what you are implying.

I think the answer is so much more complicated.

It seems that you have this end goal in mind of getting into a relationship, which is completely understandable, but the fundamental flaw in your way of thinking is that you are willing to change your personality or your temperament or how you act in order to achieve your goal. This is flawed because if you have to change in this way in order to get a girl to like you, then is she really liking you? If you actually do get into a relationship and it progresses for a good amount of time, she is going to come to discover that you were putting on an act anyway. Also, you will eventually have no trouble being a jerk to your person, so no need to start early, haha. Trust me that the best thing you can do is be yourself.

This coincides with the other fundamentally important aspect of relationships. By being yourself, you face the challenge of having to learn how to love yourself, and this is crucial in a relationship. If you do not love yourself, the other person will never be able to do or say enough to change how you feel about yourself, and ultimately your self-loathing is going to hurt the relationship.

Be yourself.
Love yourself.
Meet people, find the ones you enjoy spending time with, and find ways to spend more time with them.

It may or may not produce the results you are looking for, but you will still be happier than if you don't do those things.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: linux.poet
Upvote 0

Sophrosyne

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Jun 21, 2007
163,213
64,206
In God's Amazing Grace
✟895,522.00
Faith
Christian
I suggest you go on youtube and watch channels like the better bachelor or strong successful male and learn about todays dating culture with terms like feminist and MGTOW you will be surprised at how bad things are now for singles trying to find their life partner and a good marriage now.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
20,771
17,881
USA
✟950,392.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
We’re addressing Christian men and women and the distinction is important. When you’re struggling its imperative to stay rooted in God and avoid immersing yourself in worldly perspectives on the subject. Because it feeds the fear and distrust.

Everything has a shadow. Including the groups and problems they’re discussing. Unless you’re in the company of the people they’re describing and hear their stories you’ll forget there’s a scale. The majority aren’t the extremes you hear about.

I’ve known my share of mgtow’s and related ideologies and they’re all in relationships or desirous of long-term companions. We’ve discussed love, marriage, children and the ones I knew were providers. Which opposes their philosophy.

They didn’t throw in the towel. They’re more discriminating and aware they’ll be taken advantage of if they permit it. But that holds true for everyone.

Movements like that shouldn’t cross our thoughts. They’re founded below not above. You can’t continue to see one another in that guise or fill your head with nonsense. The word is more than enough.

You don’t have to be conversant in feminism to know it when you hear it. Her words will contradict His eventually. And it usually comes down to control and freedom.

You’ve gotta feed your mind the right thing. Listen to edifying channels that celebrate marriage and God’s design for relationships. The negativity will make you despondent and heavy laden.

I believe in surrounding myself with the things I want and I’m working towards. When I wanted to marry I forged relationships with happily married women who love and respect their husbands. That’s the principle I want to reinforce. I know the other exists but I don’t dwell on it. That’s not what I’m after.

Now I’m talking to homesteaders. They’re married and the majority are stay-at-home wives with families and side income through blogging or YouTube. They cook, bake, garden, preserve, and are adept at home management. Many have large families and industrious wives who homeschool. There’s no cleaning service or nanny. They keep it tidy. And most of their husbands don’t cook.

Women like that still exist. Young and old. Everyone isn’t demanding, high maintenance or a feminist. If you keep absorbing lies you’ll believe otherwise. Stay in the book and you’ll find her.
 
Upvote 0