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Do lies make us deserving of death and hell? And why or why not?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by com7fy8, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    Yeah, I don't need any proselytizing thanks.
     
  2. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    Wow. That seems pretty toxic to me. If I told you that my husband taught me that I deserved to be punished by him, but he was good enough to love me instead, you'd be crying out that he's emotionally manipulating me. And you'd be right.
     
  3. WrappedUpinHisLove3

    WrappedUpinHisLove3 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. Was just trying to explain why we christians believe the way we do. No harm intended. V interesting thread by the way. Thanks for starting it
     
  4. WrappedUpinHisLove3

    WrappedUpinHisLove3 Well-Known Member

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    She may be being sneaky but she is being abused emotionally by her husband who is starving her... She is trying to get her nutritional needs met.

    it is kind of lying I guess but is it a lie that is harmful to anyone?

    personally I think a woman in this situation needs to stand up to her husband or leave him
    this is a true life story which did happen to someone. I didn't know her personally and I hope she found the courage to leave him
     
  5. WrappedUpinHisLove3

    WrappedUpinHisLove3 Well-Known Member

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    Not about seeking comfort pleasure. D doesn't mind us enjoying food. The issue is The husband was being abusive to the wife starving her which doesn't cure obesity anyway. Starvation is wrong. so his abuse led to her being sneaky

    which one will ?God judge most??? Not her as much
     
  6. WrappedUpinHisLove3

    WrappedUpinHisLove3 Well-Known Member

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    yeah there are times when we should tell the truth I think I should probably my have given an example of when that is the case? Which i didn't

    I guess it does depend on heart motivation. Whether intent is to deceive or not, maybe?

    The two examples I gave were both of women forced into impossible situations who had to be sneaky for their own survival but if course most lies are just to save face , make ourselves look better.

    people pleasers and those with low self worth are prone to lying like this, to avoid shame
     
  7. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If a guy did this, yes.

    But Jesus didn't only say I deserve punishment, but Christ took our punishment upon Himself, on the cross.

    Also, Jesus has the authority to judge. A husband does not.

    Also, my selfish stuff is what is toxic. What God does about it isn't.

    Also, God does not only tell us He loves us in spite of how undeserving we are, but He changes us so we can love in sharing with Him.
     
  8. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    If my husband told me I deserved to be killed because of the horrible things I had done, but he had volunteered to be punished in my place because he loves me and so I should love him back or he would make sure I was punished for not loving him, wouldn't that be toxic?
     
  9. WrappedUpinHisLove3

    WrappedUpinHisLove3 Well-Known Member

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    Re: lying to the pigggies, isn't that a kindle a greater good? Farmer is making sure the pigs aren't distressed when They go to slaughter, which is not only kinder to them but also enures better quality meat?

    I doubt a loving heavenly father would punish farmer for lying about that
     
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  10. WrappedUpinHisLove3

    WrappedUpinHisLove3 Well-Known Member

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    He could maybe tactfully say "well maybe try this dress, it looks even better on you" thus saving himself from having to lie
     
  11. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your husband is a human. And the Bible says one human can not die for another's sins. So, yes it would be toxic for a human to take another human's punishment.

    Part of why your husband being punished instead of you is, that you would likely never change from your evil doing. He would be enabling you.

    But Jesus died for us and He is the Son of God. Only He could make satisfaction for us because He is so better than how humans are; humans can not suffer punishment in a way which is enough to satisfy God; humans merely cry and deny and guilt-trip themselves without really changing in a good way. So, God knows it is practical that Jesus would take our punishment, since only He could do it right. Plus, only God can really correct us.

    Therefore,, if we trust in Jesus and how He died for us, we are required to repent and be corrected in the real way that God corrects His children.

    What is toxic, really, is our selfishness. Plus, many people keep on in their selfishness, so they are continuing to suffer in their punishment of living in selfish stuff. They are not only taking someone else's punishment, but they are suffering together in the various punishing things which come with selfish living together.

    But do they deserve to suffer so much because of staying in their selfish living. I would say no. But sin is not fair. God's way of punishment with real correction is so better.
     
  12. RayJeena

    RayJeena ☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯ Supporter

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    Yes, yes it would. No matter what entity said that to you.
     
  13. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    So the behaviour is toxic if it comes from a human, but if the exact same behaviour comes from a deity, it's okay?

    I hope you understand how extremely troubling I find that reasoning.
     
  14. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,915
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    I'm glad we agree on that.
     
  15. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus dying on the cross for us is not exactly the same behavior as how humans handle people worthy of punishment!!!
     
  16. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,915
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    I believe you have missed my point.

    "You are a horrible person and you deserve death. But because I love you, I am going to take that punishment on myself, and all I ask is that you love me back and live your life according to what I say is best for you."

    That is toxic if my husband says it, but apparently good if God says it. I am pointing out the double standard.
     
  17. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,915
    Australia
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    I once asked my husband a similar question and he said, "No, it's not the dress." He's VERY lucky I have a sense of humour! :D
     
  18. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <>< Supporter

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    James 2:10 says whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. this includes lying or any other issue someone wants to nitpick. such conversations are usually void of the participants knowing the full magnitude of the gospel and what it entails. im staying out of this.
     
  19. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You were clear.

    But Jesus is not just some human. He has taken our punishment, in our place, and now He is helping us to become the way God's love can have us living and loving.

    A human husband could not do this. It is not toxic to be changed to how God's love has us become and love. God's love is almighty to get rid of toxic stuff like hate and fear. No human husband can live in us to do this.

    So, I do understand you are comparing God with a human, and I am disagreeing with you, by saying, no, God is not the same as a human. And He is our Judge, while a human husband is not.
     
  20. Ananias

    Ananias Member

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    God is not a human being. He is the one and only true God, perfect in all attributes. He is omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent, loving, just, and wrathful in perfect proportion. We summarize this by saying the Triune God is holy. God is not of the world; he is the creator of the cosmos and everything in it. By definition his Word is true and correct in every respect because, being perfect in all attributes, he can speak no other way.

    The Triune God is not a pagan god. He has no flaws, no blind spots, no weaknesses. He is not bound by space or time. He sees all things and knows all things. He has perfect Will.

    Each Person of the Holy Trinity -- The Father; the Son, God's Word; and the Holy Spirit -- being in perfect Communion in forming the Triune God are also therefore perfect.
     
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