LDS Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will "get their own planet?"

BigDaddy4

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Getting our own planet is an erroneous assumption
So you disagree with Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith, and Spencer Kimball? Per the 3 quotes below, as found in the OP, it appears they have a different view. On what authority should we take your word over theirs? Are you a prophet, seer, or revelator for your church?
"Then will they become Gods...they will never cease to increase and to multiply, worlds without end. When they receive their crowns, their dominions, they then will be prepared to frame earths like unto ours and to people them in the same manner as we have been brought forth by our parents, by our Father and God”
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 17:143

“The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom. In other words, we will have the privilege of becoming like him.
To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring.”
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 2, p.48, (also quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 197)

"We educate ourselves in the secular field and in the spiritual field so that we may one day create worlds, people and govern them."
The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], p. 386

There is a lot of matter out there waiting to be formed into stars, planets, and moons.
Do you have evidence of this matter and that it is "waiting to be formed"? How does inanimate matter "wait"?
 
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He is the way

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So you disagree with Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith, and Spencer Kimball? Per the 3 quotes below, as found in the OP, it appears they have a different view. On what authority should we take your word over theirs? Are you a prophet, seer, or revelator for your church?



Do you have evidence of this matter and that it is "waiting to be formed"? How does inanimate matter "wait"?
Getting our own planet is not even close to what we can get. As I explained it is much more than that. There is no such thing as immaterial matter, but there is plenty of visible and invisible matter out there. Look up at the night sky and you may be able to see a minuscule part of it.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Getting our own planet is not even close to what we can get. As I explained it is much more than that. There is no such thing as immaterial matter, but there is plenty of visible and invisible matter out there. Look up at the night sky and you may be able to see a minuscule part of it.
Satan wanted that kind of power. Be careful what you wish for.

Looking up at the night sky, I see the moon, maybe a planet or two in our system, a random shooting star, and a whole bunch of shining stars. They are already formed. So where is this other visible and invisible matter located for which you can create your own planet?
 
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He is the way

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Satan wanted that kind of power. Be careful what you wish for.

Looking up at the night sky, I see the moon, maybe a planet or two in our system, a random shooting star, and a whole bunch of shining stars. They are already formed. So where is this other visible and invisible matter located for which you can create your own planet?
Yes Satan wanted power and apparently did not like the plan of salvation.

As I said, what we see is a minuscule part of it. And much of it is already formed, but there is nebulae, black holes, and matter which is not visible or so far away that the most powerful telescopes can not detect it.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Yes Satan wanted power and apparently did not like the plan of salvation.
Ironically, this applies to Joseph Smith. That should be a huge red flag.
As I said, what we see is a minuscule part of it. And much of it is already formed, but there is nebulae, black holes, and matter which is not visible or so far away that the most powerful telescopes can not detect it.
You could just say you don't know because, well, you don't know. It's funny to think that you think there are a huge amount of Lego pieces, so to speak, scattered throughout the universe so that when you get to exhaltation you get to build your own planet with them. God already created the universe, but apparently that's not enough for your religion and you have to add to it.
 
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dzheremi

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(Old Testament | Proverbs 26:10)

10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

There is a lot of matter out there waiting to be formed into stars, planets, and moons.

Our Mormon friend here quotes the OT in the KJV translation, which renders the relevant verb in the past tense (formed; interestingly, this is apparently somewhat unique to the KJV, which is the Mormons' preferred translation, as others translate מְחֽוֹלֵֽל in the present continuous, e.g., the NAB has "like an archer who wounds everyone"), and then goes on to say "There is a lot of matter out there waiting to be formed".

Not according to the quote from Proverbs that you just purposely chose (you could have chosen a different translation and it wouldn't have so directly contradicted your point). Does the past tense work differently in "Mormon English", such that "formed" simultaneously means to be formed?

That'd be rather strange, as yes, they use the same morphological form (i.e., both end in what is usually the past tense morpheme -ed), but they're completely different constructions and don't at all mean the same thing.

Pretty strange, isn't it?

On the OP's question, I've never seen anything that suggested that Mormons don't get their own planets -- only stuff from ex-Mormons that says that this is what they were taught, which present-day Mormons told me is inaccurate. So somebody is obviously being less than honest, but I can't tell who.

Here's an ex-Mormon going through the song "I believe" from the popular musical "The Book of Mormon" (from the creators of the TV show South Park), which references this thread's topic, and analyzing it for how closely it actually reflects what Mormons are taught. He says it's pretty accurate, and actually kinda moving as a performance (I agree), but again, Mormons here have told me he's wrong pretty much straight off the bat, so who are you gonna believe? I believe the video uploader, just for the record, because my independent research seems to confirm what he says on this point, but you can judge for yourselves.


(p.s. - Hi. I missed you guys during my brief absence. Including our Mormon friends. I hope everyone is doing well. :))
 
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He is the way

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Ironically, this applies to Joseph Smith. That should be a huge red flag.

You could just say you don't know because, well, you don't know. It's funny to think that you think there are a huge amount of Lego pieces, so to speak, scattered throughout the universe so that when you get to exhaltation you get to build your own planet with them. God already created the universe, but apparently that's not enough for your religion and you have to add to it.
Joseph Smith and everyone born on earth liked God's plan of salvation. We all kept our first estate. Now we are trying to keep our second estate. God formed the planets, stars, moons, etc. out of matter that already existed. There is still matter that needs to be formed.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Joseph Smith and everyone born on earth liked God's plan of salvation. We all kept our first estate. Now we are trying to keep our second estate. God formed the planets, stars, moons, etc. out of matter that already existed. There is still matter that needs to be formed.
Well I'll bet God is happy that he has the approval of JS, et al, for his plan. \s But that's not really true, is it? God's "plan" existed before anyone on earth existed, especially JS. And, even now, not everyone agrees with it.

What about a third estate? Is that a possibility in your "eternal progression" theory?

God "formed" these things, but there are not enough of them for your religions liking? I'm sure God appreciates the help because apparently he couldn't do it all on his own?? And why does this supposed matter still "need(s) to be formed"??
 
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dzheremi

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Sarcasm or not, that's the impression that Mormon theology leaves the reader with, isn't it? A god (/gods) that needs human approval and works within the limits of human preferences and comprehension, while the acts of the true God are foolishness to the pagans and a stumbling block to the Greeks, and His thoughts and ways are far above our thoughts and ways, etc.
 
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Peter1000

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Our Mormon friend here quotes the OT in the KJV translation, which renders the relevant verb in the past tense (formed; interestingly, this is apparently somewhat unique to the KJV, which is the Mormons' preferred translation, as others translate מְחֽוֹלֵֽל in the present continuous, e.g., the NAB has "like an archer who wounds everyone"), and then goes on to say "There is a lot of matter out there waiting to be formed".

Not according to the quote from Proverbs that you just purposely chose (you could have chosen a different translation and it wouldn't have so directly contradicted your point). Does the past tense work differently in "Mormon English", such that "formed" simultaneously means to be formed?

That'd be rather strange, as yes, they use the same morphological form (i.e., both end in what is usually the past tense morpheme -ed), but they're completely different constructions and don't at all mean the same thing.

Pretty strange, isn't it?

On the OP's question, I've never seen anything that suggested that Mormons don't get their own planets -- only stuff from ex-Mormons that says that this is what they were taught, which present-day Mormons told me is inaccurate. So somebody is obviously being less than honest, but I can't tell who.

Here's an ex-Mormon going through the song "I believe" from the popular musical "The Book of Mormon" (from the creators of the TV show South Park), which references this thread's topic, and analyzing it for how closely it actually reflects what Mormons are taught. He says it's pretty accurate, and actually kinda moving as a performance (I agree), but again, Mormons here have told me he's wrong pretty much straight off the bat, so who are you gonna believe? I believe the video uploader, just for the record, because my independent research seems to confirm what he says on this point, but you can judge for yourselves.


(p.s. - Hi. I missed you guys during my brief absence. Including our Mormon friends. I hope everyone is doing well. :))
Although it is close, I would not fully fall in with the video uploader. He is trying to make money, and if he stirs a little bit of controversy, all the better. So believe who you will, I don't think in your case that it is going to matter much.
 
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Peter1000

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Well I'll bet God is happy that he has the approval of JS, et al, for his plan. \s But that's not really true, is it? God's "plan" existed before anyone on earth existed, especially JS. And, even now, not everyone agrees with it.

What about a third estate? Is that a possibility in your "eternal progression" theory?

God "formed" these things, but there are not enough of them for your religions liking? I'm sure God appreciates the help because apparently he couldn't do it all on his own?? And why does this supposed matter still "need(s) to be formed"??
JS, you and I and everyone on earth shouted for joy when the earth was finally created and our opportunity to enjoy the second estate here on earth was outlined for us. (Job 38:7)

Even though we do not call our eternal life with God and Jesus the third estate, it could be called that.
 
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Peter1000

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Sarcasm or not, that's the impression that Mormon theology leaves the reader with, isn't it? A god (/gods) that needs human approval and works within the limits of human preferences and comprehension, while the acts of the true God are foolishness to the pagans and a stumbling block to the Greeks, and His thoughts and ways are far above our thoughts and ways, etc.
If God did not work within the limits of human preferences and comprehensions, he would not be in a position to judge us.
Since He does work within the limits of our human comprehension and he knows our frailties, and our human nuances, He is in a unique position to judge whether we should have eternal life with Him or not.
 
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BigDaddy4

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JS, you and I and everyone on earth shouted for joy when the earth was finally created and our opportunity to enjoy the second estate here on earth was outlined for us. (Job 38:7)
Besides your blatant misuse of Job to justify your point (God was showing Job that Job wasn't even around when those things happened, and neither were you or I), your response doesn't make sense, even in your theology. How can everyone on earth shout for joy when the earth was finally created? There wasn't anyone on earth when it was created (Adam showed up on the 6th day) and your pre-existence theology says "everyone" was an intelligence or spirit with God. So how can "JS, you and I and everyone on earth" shout for joy when we weren't on earth at the time?
 
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He is the way

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Well I'll bet God is happy that he has the approval of JS, et al, for his plan. \s But that's not really true, is it? God's "plan" existed before anyone on earth existed, especially JS. And, even now, not everyone agrees with it.

What about a third estate? Is that a possibility in your "eternal progression" theory?

God "formed" these things, but there are not enough of them for your religions liking? I'm sure God appreciates the help because apparently he couldn't do it all on his own?? And why does this supposed matter still "need(s) to be formed"??
God does not need anyone's approval. Therefore we were given prophets to share His word:

(New Testament | Luke 16:31)

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


(New Testament | Jude 1:6)

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

(Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 3:26 - 28)

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.
 
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He is the way

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Sarcasm or not, that's the impression that Mormon theology leaves the reader with, isn't it? A god (/gods) that needs human approval and works within the limits of human preferences and comprehension, while the acts of the true God are foolishness to the pagans and a stumbling block to the Greeks, and His thoughts and ways are far above our thoughts and ways, etc.
We have prophets to help mankind to know the word of God. God spoke to us through His prophet Joseph Smith. He also spoke through Moses and Abraham.
 
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Besides your blatant misuse of Job to justify your point (God was showing Job that Job wasn't even around when those things happened, and neither were you or I), your response doesn't make sense, even in your theology. How can everyone on earth shout for joy when the earth was finally created? There wasn't anyone on earth when it was created (Adam showed up on the 6th day) and your pre-existence theology says "everyone" was an intelligence or spirit with God. So how can "JS, you and I and everyone on earth" shout for joy when we weren't on earth at the time?

We were all awaiting our turn to come to earth:

(Old Testament | Genesis 2:1)

1 THUS the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
 
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dzheremi

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We have prophets to help mankind to know the word of God. God spoke to us through His prophet Joseph Smith. He also spoke through Moses and Abraham.

Your religion attempts to resurrect what it thinks was the OT system, conveniently (but I have to conclude purposefully) forgetting that He Who was to come has indeed done so, making prophecy to discern the word of God at best seeing through a glass darkly. Thus Moses and Abraham saw. (NB: when Moses saw the almighty God, he could not look at Him directly)

Now, in the post-incarnational world transformed by Christ, the Word is revealed in the Person of Jesus Christ, our Lord, God, and Savior, Who has come and saved us by His holy sacrifice upon the life-giving cross.

So we must wonder at this strange religion which claims to be a form of Christianity -- and not only a form, but the only true from -- and yet operates in a fashion that implicitly denies the reality of the incarnation, which has transformed the world in which we all live. Christ's glorious incarnation and birth literally split time itself into two (BC/AD), and yet it seems your religion prefers to pretend as though it remains in the pre-incarnational world.

Why is that? Why won't you join the rest of us in the years of our Lord (Anno Domini), not just on the calendar (as I assume you already do), but in your theology and the faith that is affirmed by it? You won't do it. Instead you cling to something else that you call the true faith that was 'lost' or 'taken from the world' or some such, but is in reality the musings of Joseph Smith and those who followed him, who were and are false prophets, one and all.

You do not have the faith of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You have not received the Savior, the God-man Jesus Christ. One with His Father and the Holy Spirit in the perfect, eternally united, uncreated and indivisible Holy Trinity (our God, as Christians). To present things otherwise is to pretend that Mormonism has the faith of Christians, which is the true faith in the reality of Christ's coming, incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit (Who is God, the Giver of Life...not an untrustworthy feeling/burning in the bossom) and of the Virgin Mary, for us men (humankind) and our salvation, and so on. (I don't feel the need to recite the Creed, as it is obvious to anyone with ears to hear and eyes to see how Mormonism falls short of the very basics of Christianity.)

Can you say the same? No. You refuse in favor of your bizarre system of 'prophets' who are not that, baptisms which are not that, 'the sacrament' which is not that (and 'sacrament meetings' in place of liturgy/mass...yes, I know you guys have your temple rituals which are scripted, but for one you won't talk about them, so we can't contrast and compare, and for another thing I've seen them, and they're nothing like a Christian liturgy of any type -- Orthodox, Catholic, High Church Mainline Protestant, etc.; it's freemasonry with some fables sprinkled through, in what looks to be bakers' clothing), and all this other nonsense.

So quit it with this "God talked to Abraham, and also Joseph Smith" type of reasoning. God did lots of stuff that we weren't commanded to continue, particularly in the OT since that's the covenant He made with Jews, and Christianity and Judaism are not the same religion (precisely because of Christ's coming, and their denial of Him). Have you seen any Christians slaughter any Amorites or whoever lately because God said to do so in the OT? Of course not. And so neither do we revert to the old ways beyond what the Church has accepted from Judaism prior to our being thrown from the temple (quite a lot; ask anyone who studies the history of the development of Christian liturgy, or read anyone who has written on the same, like Jaroslav Pelikan, Robert Taft, etc.), which was handled by the apostles themselves in council at Jerusalem circa AD 50, as recorded in the Bible itself (in the book of Acts).

So even if it your system were somehow a 'restoration' of anything ancient, which it absolutely is not, it would only mean that you are today 1,969 years behind the Church and the actual apostles who lived, learned from, and taught the pure faith from the lips of our Lord Himself, Whom they walked the earth alongside.

Your Joseph Smith or any of your other claimed prophets can say nothing of the kind beyond a few different versions of some supposed 'vision' that happened to Smith. That's rather odd, don't you think? Our Lord went through great pains after His resurrection to illustrate that He was not a vision to the doubting disciple St. Thomas, telling him to put his hands into the wounds on our Lord's side. St. Thomas did so, and brought his experience with the risen Christ to India in AD 52. Within a few decades of Christ's mission on earth. And so all the apostolic churches were founded, not on some obscurantist 'vision' given to one man a la Joseph Smith or his spiritual forefather the imentally-unstable Muhammad, founder of Islam, but on the experience of the risen Christ.

Come to the living, incarnate, risen Christ in the Christian faith, and leave the strange superstitions and outmoded OT role-playing/play acting of Joseph Smith et al. behind. Only Christ saves. Joseph Smith and the Mormon religion's temple ordinances or whatever do not.
 
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Rescued One

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So you disagree with Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith, and Spencer Kimball? Per the 3 quotes below, as found in the OP, it appears they have a different view. On what authority should we take your word over theirs? Are you a prophet, seer, or revelator for your church?



Do you have evidence of this matter and that it is "waiting to be formed"? How does inanimate matter "wait"?

If you've been given the proper key, you can find several boxes of it on shelves 22-B and 22-C.
 
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dzheremi

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Where did the bible ever say thomas actually took Jesus up on the offer to put his hand in Jesus' side?

It is implied earlier in verse 25 when St. Thomas responds to the others' report of having seen the risen Christ that unless he feels the wounds himself, he won't believe. This is presumably why Christ gives that exact instruction. (It'd be pretty weird otherwise, if there wasn't this preexisting context of needing to do so for confirmation.)
 
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