Do I have the Holy Spirit?

[faroukfarouk]

We all begin with the kernels of faith and then it grows from there as we grow in the faith.

Romans 8 indicates that all born again believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, v. 9

 

[Francis Drake]

This is stretch in so many ways. No where in scripture does it say that Jesus was not always God incarnate.

I suspect you don't understand what "Incarnate" means!
Jesus always was God. However, he was not "God incarnate", till he was conceived and born of Mary.

You and I do not and never will possess the power he possesses.

Despite being God incarnate, Jesus exhibited no power prior to his baptism and filling with the Spirit. That might explain his father Joseph's absence from Jesus's adulthood in the gospels., ie. Joseph got sick and died and Jesus didn't, or couldn't heal him.

The scriptures are clear that the power Jesus operated in was not from him being our creator God, but from the Holy Spirit which came on him when he was baptised by John.
Mark1v10And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove.

Lk3v21When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as He was praying, heaven was opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.” 23Jesus Himself was about thirty years old when He began His ministry.

Jn1v32Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’…

Jesus laid aside his own power and majesty when he was born as a man, ie. became "incarnate".
Phil2v5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men. 8And having been found in appearance as a man He humbled Himself, having become obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Thus Jesus left behind all the power he had when he created the earth, but waited till the start of his ministry to receive power from the Holy Spirit. And if we have the same Holy Spirit that was in Jesus, then we have the same source of power that was in Jesus Christ the man.

He is God. He always was God. He always will be God.

Absolutely true, and I have said nothing to dispute that.

Jesus quite explicitly made it clear what we must do to receive eternal life. He gave examples of people receiving salvation without baptism. It is not our place to question the salvation of any person. That is between him/her and God.

I received salvation a decade before I got baptised, so I'm not sure what you are rattling on about here?

 

[Francis Drake]

Romans 8 indicates that all born again believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, v. 9

That's completely different to being filled with the spirit.
Jesus was obviously born of the Spirit, scripture makes that absolutely clear. Yet he had to be filled with the Spirit before he exhibited the power of the spirit.

 

[Thomas White]

I suspect you don't understand what "Incarnate" means!
Jesus always was God. However, he was not "God incarnate", till he was conceived and born of Mary.

Despite being God incarnate, Jesus exhibited no power prior to his baptism and filling with the Spirit. That might explain his father Joseph's absence from Jesus's adulthood in the gospels., ie. Joseph got sick and died and Jesus didn't, or couldn't heal him.

The scriptures are clear that the power Jesus operated in was not from him being our creator God, but from the Holy Spirit which came on him when he was baptised by John.
Mark1v10And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove.

Lk3v21When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as He was praying, heaven was opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.” 23Jesus Himself was about thirty years old when He began His ministry.

Jn1v32Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’…

Jesus laid aside his own power and majesty when he was born as a man, ie. became "incarnate".
Phil2v5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men. 8And having been found in appearance as a man He humbled Himself, having become obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Thus Jesus left behind all the power he had when he created the earth, but waited till the start of his ministry to receive power from the Holy Spirit. And if we have the same Holy Spirit that was in Jesus, then we have the same source of power that was in Jesus Christ the man.

Absolutely true, and I have said nothing to dispute that.

I received salvation a decade before I got baptised, so I'm not sure what you are rattling on about here?

Forgive me. I read your other statement as saying that salvation only occurs upon baptism. If this is not what you said, you and I agree completely... except in relation to Jesus and His works.

We only know of three years because that is when He had followers to record His works. We have no clue about the first thirty or so years. We have no Biblical basis for drawing any conclusions about that time in Jesus's life.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I'm female

My Brother is looking for a wife. Are you interested? smile

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Romans 8 indicates that all born again believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, v. 9

Read through Acts you will see they were filled with the Spirit on many occasions.

DL Moody said, that we are leaky vessels and need to be refilled often.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

That's completely different to being filled with the spirit.
Jesus was obviously born of the Spirit, scripture makes that absolutely clear. Yet he had to be filled with the Spirit before he exhibited the power of the spirit.

Since Jesus is God, why would he need to be born again? Why would he need to be filled by the Holy Spirit? Was not the fullness of the godhead in him?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

In short, we can grow in the virtues of God, not his nature.

2 Peter 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
1 Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because now you know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Everything We Need
3 Jesus has the power of God. And his power has given us everything we need to live a life devoted to God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus chose us by his glory and goodness, 4 through which he also gave us the very great and rich gifts that he promised us. With these gifts you can share in being like God. And so you will escape the ruin that comes to people in the world because of the evil things they want.

5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.

10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.

12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.

We Saw Christ’s Glory
16 We told you about the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. We told you about his coming. The things we told you were not just clever stories that people invented. No, we saw the greatness of Jesus with our own eyes. 17 Jesus heard the voice of the great and glorious God. That was when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice said, “This is my Son, the one I love. I am very pleased with him.” 18 And we heard that voice. It came from heaven while we were with Jesus on the holy mountain.

19 This makes us more sure about what the prophets said. And it is good for you to follow closely what they said, which is like a light shining in a dark place. You have that light until the day begins and the morning star brings new light to your minds. 20 Most important of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in the Scriptures comes from the prophet’s own understanding. 21 No prophecy ever came from what some person wanted to say. But people were led by the Holy Spirit and spoke words from God.

 

[faroukfarouk]

That's completely different to being filled with the spirit.

Agreed.

 

[Francis Drake]

Forgive me. I read your other statement as saying that salvation only occurs upon baptism. If this is not what you said, you and I agree completely... except in relation to Jesus and His works.

That's great, but....

We only know of three years because that is when He had followers to record His works. We have no clue about the first thirty or so years. We have no Biblical basis for drawing any conclusions about that time in Jesus's life.

Obviously, we only have the 3 years of his ministry to go by, but given the magnitude of what was written about those three years, do you not think they would have also written about what he did previously, if he had been doing miracles during that period.

The absence of testimony for that period, coupled with the explosion of testimony the moment he was baptised and filled with the spirit is sufficient proof that Jesus worked on earth by the Holy Spirit, not by his status as creator God.

But we have his own words, and the words of the apostles to confirm that his power was directly from the HS, not himself.

Lk4v14Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and news of Him went out through all the surrounding region.
And again...
Matt12v28But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Here we see Jesus saying it was the Holy Spirit doing the work, not him.
And we have the same power to cast demons out in the power of the Holy Spirit, (something I have been doing for the last 40 years!)

 

[Francis Drake]

Since Jesus is God, why would he need to be born again?

I never said Jesus was born again, if you read again you will see I said he was born of the Spirit, which scripture makes very clear.

Why would he need to be filled by the Holy Spirit? Was not the fullness of the godhead in him?

Obviously the fullness of the Godhead was in him, but Jesus humbled himself as a man, laying aside his power and majesty.
Phil2v5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Jesus was the second Adam and had to walk in the same human temptation as Adam and all his offspring.
Scripture is very clear that the power Jesus used to perform miracles was the Holy Spirit, not his Godhead.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Was my baptism valid?

If it was in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit--yes. Baptism isn't our work, it's God's work.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

No I did not have enough understanding and still don't, it would take careful studying and learning of the Bible to have a 'deep belief' but I do have faith/put my faith in Jesus Christ. They didn't even call it 'believer's baptism', it seems the young lady wasn't exactly very mature or was influenced to get people to be baptized in a hurry without having good judgment of when one is really ready.

All that is required for a Baptism to be valid is that it is with water, that it is in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and the intent is that it is Christian Baptism. Since the One who is at work in Baptism isn't us, or the person conducting the baptismal rite, but God Himself. So that when we pass through the water we have been joined to Christ, united to His death and resurrection, and have therefore become born again of God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[thelord's_pearl]

My Brother is looking for a wife. Are you interested? smile

hi, I'm actually very careful about getting into a relationship. God bless him.

 

[Jesus_is_Saint]

Probably the Holy Spirit stands besides us to support us spiritually.

 

[Francis Drake]

Probably the Holy Spirit stands besides us to support us spiritually.

We are vessels, you don't usually pour stuff outside a vessel!

 

[Eha]

I disagree, there is something special called being filled with the HS, and it can happen after believing.

There is baptism with Holy Spirit and fire, happens once.
And there is filled by Holy Spirit - happens daily, if need to.
And you get Holy Spirit as Teacher, soon you accept Jesus as yours Lord and Savior.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, but not instead of water.
What did Jesus tell his disciples to do, Matthew 28:19-20? Preach, baptise and make disciples.



True, but they want to know, among other things, if their baptism was valid, even though they weren't sure they believed. If you are saying there is, or should be, no water baptism, whether this person believed or not is irrelevant.

Acts 2.41 gives the order of events: believe, then be baptised as a believer.

 

[Kenobi]

The Bible says that the Holy Spirit dwells with us (John 14:16), is in us (John 14:17), and comes upon us (Acts 1:8)

I've heard an analogy of a glass (us) and a pitcher filled with water. He comes alongside us, and dwells with us. He brings us to a place of repentance. The pitcher next to the glass is not unlike your neighbor dwelling with you in a neighborhood. There's a closeness there, but it's a certain kind of closeness.

When we accept Christ, water is poured into our glass. The Holy Spirit now lives in us. He is our Teacher, Comforter, and 1 John 2:27 has been a verse I've loved recently when it comes to understanding God.

When the Holy Spirit comes upon us. Imagine the glass being so full, it's overflowing, rivers of living water are now flowing from us, and it's getting everywhere. Inside and outside the glass, it is totally submerged. I like this picture, because it can encompass submission.

John 7:38-39 seems to indicate that waters flowing from us has to do with receiving the Holy Spirit. When water comes from someone, it has that picture of getting onto others... This isn't something just for us, but for our environment. Whether this is just fruit of the Spirit, or the times we speak or pray in the Spirit (which I've never believed to mean tongues, since tongues is a language of praise/thanksgiving)

As for the term "Filled with the Holy Spirit" it seems to be a term that Luke used often. It's mostly in Luke and in Acts. When you look at all the occurrences side by side, they seem to indicate a "being under the influence of"

Paul uses this same definition in Ephesians5. Be not drunk with wine, which is dissipation (are we drunk once? Is it a one time event?), But be filled with the Holy Spirit (as a contrasting idea to the first), speaking in psalms and hymns to one another.

KJV says speaking, other versions say "Be filled with the Holy Spirit. PERIOD. Speak Psalms and hymns to one another..." But whatever version you look at, it's still Idea 1 versus Idea 2.

"Don't get drunk every day, BUT INSTEAD one time, take on a single event of the baptism of the holy spirit." ?? It doesn't really fit...
It makes much more sense to say: Every day to walk under the influence of the Spirit instead of every day under the influence of alcohol.

We also have a very old pickle recipe to help us. Where the word baptise has two different forms. Bapto and baptizo. The Bible uses baptizo. This ancient Greek pickle recipe says to bapto (which we can use context, means dip), and then to baptizo (means, submerge and leave it there, ie to "pickle" it). The Bible uses the second form when referring to when Jesus baptizes us in the Holy Spirit.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE

The active/passive usage of the words suggest that we should not actively drink wine and disappear, but BE filled, passively. Meaning, let God do it to us.

I'm a part of a nondenom church that has chrismatic roots... I've had to really study up on this stuff, because there's some things said that I don't feel there's a true scriptural basis for... Lovely, well meaning people, who love God dearly, and love people dearly, and I love them dearly. But some things said have led me to some deep praying and studying on the Holy Spirit...