Do gays pushing for gay marriage realize what they are asking Christians to accept?

wanderingone

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Supporting gay marriage doesn't force anyone to "accept" it, anymore than supporting "interracial" or "inter-religious" marriages forces you to accept them. People opposed to specific marriages involving consenting adults are free to refuse to recognise them, free to attend churches that will not perform them.
 
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Zaac

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They are asking not only for sodomy to be recognized as normal, but on top of that they are asking that the traditional relationship between man and woman where children are created is to be legally synonymous with two sodomites engaging in what God's word calls a grave sin.

I've heard it said that white people don't have culture. That is a lie. White people have a Christian culture that is being torn apart at the seams by special interest groups such as this. You don't hear about Jewish or Muslim people pushing for gay marriage recognition in Israel or Iran. But for some reason it is being pushed in America and Europe.

I wouldn't say that it is a WHITE Christian culture that's being torn apart, but rather Christ is being attacked.

It's His word and His Way that we preach. People are rebelling against HIM not against other men.

But we're dealing with unsaved people. They are supposed to act lost.
It's the ones who are calling themselves Christians while advocating sin which are doing the most damage.
 
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gwenmead

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I don't expect Christians to accept anything. When gay marriage is finally legalized on a federal level, you simply won't be able to use your religious convictions to deny another group a civil right. It's irrelevant whether or not you accept it.

Some of you will be able to cope with that just fine - embrace it with love, even. The rest of you will just have to deal. That's the way it goes.
 
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Polycarp1

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Didn't the original American bound european people come to this land for Christian reasons?

No, they came here for sectarian reasons. They were free to worship God in Christian churches in their countries of origin -- just not in the manner they felt appropriate. Congregationalist Calvinists, for example, disagreed with Morning Prayer and Holy Communion according to the Church of England's Book of Common Prayer.

The OP is a good one in that Christians are being demanded of to celebrate anti-Christian ways or else suffer secular sanctions. Someone had to answer all of the gay activism threads trying to attach itself to Christian reality.

Let's see -- what exactly are you being forced to do? Oh, yeah, live a moral life according to your own understanding of God's will in a country where others are free to do likewise, according to their understanding. This goes against what you appear to feel is your God-given right to impose your personal ideas of what is right and wrong, derived from how you read Bible passages and what you read into them, on others by force of law.
 
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Zaac

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I don't expect Christians to accept anything. When gay marriage is finally legalized on a federal level, you simply won't be able to use your religious convictions to deny another group a civil right. It's irrelevant whether or not you accept it.

Some of you will be able to cope with that just fine - embrace it with love, even. The rest of you will just have to deal. That's the way it goes.

You mean the way that gay folks were able to cope just fine -embrace with love, and just deal when the people of California spoke?

<edit>

This world religion of secular humanism and worship of self should receive the same treatment that yall like to push upon other religions.
 
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AdamClarke

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I wouldn't say that it is a WHITE Christian culture that's being torn apart, but rather Christ is being attacked.

It's His word and His Way that we preach. People are rebelling against HIM not against other men.

But we're dealing with unsaved people. They are supposed to act lost.
It's the ones who are calling themselves Christians while advocating sin which are doing the most damage.


A wise post. Indeed we shouldn't be able to expect anything less from the lost, but those who claim the name of Christ should be very cautious when advocating something that is in Scripture called a "vile affection".
 
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HighwayMan

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Didn't the original American bound european people come to this land for Christian reasons?

We're talking about modern-day America. Attempts to go back to the mentality and conditions of ancient times like the OP is suggesting would be crazy. If anything, America has a clear history and tradition of social change that cannot be stopped.

40 years ago people were asking "Do these people realize they're asking us to accept half-monkeys as part of society?"
 
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HighwayMan

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It's the ones who are calling themselves Christians while advocating hatred which are doing the most damage.

fixed.

No one gave you the authority on Christ or the Bible. The only thing you have to go on is the warped interpretations fed to you over a lifetime by the church, and your fear and reluctance to clear your eyes.
 
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HighwayMan

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I don't expect Christians to accept anything. When gay marriage is finally legalized on a federal level, you simply won't be able to use your religious convictions to deny another group a civil right. It's irrelevant whether or not you accept it.

Some of you will be able to cope with that just fine - embrace it with love, even. The rest of you will just have to deal. That's the way it goes.


See, this is wrong too. This gives out the message that it's not really the issue that you care about, but the idea of scoring a "victory" over Christians and getting to gloat about it. Laws are only a small step forward, a group of people will never really progress if they continue to be hated by the majority of society.
 
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Beanieboy

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What Christians do against gays in working so hard to prevent gay marriage is:

gaymarriage.gif


No one hurts your marriage.
No one threatens your marriage.
No one forces you to approve of it (Did you approve of Britney's 52 hour marriage in Vegas?)

However for me, it prevents me from being considered next of kin for my partner, so we can't make life and death decisions for each other. Please forgive me.

It would allow my American co-worker to return with her legal Canadian wife which she could do if she were a man, but instead, my coworker can't return home to the USA, unless she wants to leave her wife. Please forgive her.

All nonChristians break the 1st commandment, and no one votes to ban the Freedom of Religion because of what the bible says.
However, when gays simply want protection under the law, the bible is pulled out and claimed to suddenly be the law, while ignoring the glaring hypocracy. In your mercy, forgive us.

There are stories like these:
When his partner of 13 years ended his life after a long struggle with depression, John Lestitian deeply wanted to honor his last requests.

Instead, because the Maryland couple had been unable to fulfill their dream of marrying, Lestitian found himself in a legal and personal nightmare.

Jim Bradley had wanted his ashes scattered off the coast of Ireland. His parents wanted them buried. As a legal spouse, Lestitian would have had the authority to follow Bradley&#8217;s wishes. Lacking legal rights, Lestitian depended on the kindness of his late partner&#8217;s parents, who eventually agreed to let him scatter part of the ashes.

For tax reasons, the men had put their home in Bradley&#8217;s name. Bradley left it to Lestitian in his will &#8212; an unnecessary step if they&#8217;d been married. But the will was ruled invalid because it had only one witness, not the two required by Maryland law. So, Lestitian lost his home in addition to the man he loved.

&#8220;When we pledged our lives together,&#8221; Lestitian says, &#8220;it was a pledge that we would help each other through whatever life threw at us. We weren&#8217;t individuals who would say, &#8216;Oh, you have a problem, so see you later.&#8217;&#8221;

The couple&#8217;s tragedy, compounded by their inability to marry, prompted the surviving partner to join nine Maryland couples in suing their state for the right to wed. Handled by the American Civil Liberties Union, the lawsuit is the first major challenge filed since Massachusetts two months ago became the first state to open marriage to same-sex couples.

Just two days after the Maryland case was filed, the U.S. Senate began debating whether to write discrimination into the U.S. Constitution by amending it to include a nationwide ban on gay marriage. As it became clear the anti-gay amendment was going down in flames, a vehement advocate, Republican Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, demanded to know, &#8220;What harm would this amendment ... do?&#8221; Implicit in that question was an unspoken one: What harm do laws barring gay couples from marrying do?

A growing number of Americans realize those barriers do plenty of harm to loving couples trying to cope with life&#8217;s unpredictable ups and downs. Want evidence of the nation&#8217;s evolving understanding that it&#8217;s not being fair to those of us who&#8217;re gay? By 50-48, a majority of the Senate, including six Republicans, voted to shelve that awful amendment and let each state keep the freedom to grapple with gay couples&#8217; rights.

.....
More typical are the kinds of trouble that Jodi Kelber-Kaye, her partner of 11 years and their two sons have had with hospitals because the women aren&#8217;t married. Once, when Stacey Kargman-Kaye had a heart problem, her partner was forced to leave the room because they weren&#8217;t legally related. And when their second son was born prematurely, Kargman-Kaye, who is not the birth mom, was barred from making medical decisions for the infant.

In their six years as parents, the women, who&#8217;re part of the new lawsuit, have paid an extra $24,000 in insurance premiums because they couldn&#8217;t get a family plan. And they had to pay $3,000 in legal fees for Stacey Kargman-Kaye to become her sons&#8217; second legal parent.

&#8220;We have deep concerns about our family being respected by medical personnel,&#8221; says Kelber-Kaye. &#8220;We have a large stack of legal documents. But it&#8217;s not like you carry those around all the time.&#8221;

Every gay couple denied the right to marry is left needlessly vulnerable. One day, thanks to the gay men and lesbians who courageously share their stories, all 50 states will treat gay relationships with respect.

Jesus taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves, and yet, there is nothing loving about this, and these people have done nothing to anyone, but been on the receiving end of cruelty that blamed the victim for harming the abuser.
Lord, in your mercy, please forgive the gay community for suffering these injustices, in some how, harming our oppressers, if only by offering blessings to those who curse us, and being a light for the darkness within them.
 
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QuakerOats

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People advocating for same-sex marriage are asking those who are opposed to, first and foremost, wake up and realize that the USA is not a theocracy, and that their religious preferences have no business being a part of law-making, especially as per the first amendment. I'm sure many of these same people would not enjoy a theocracy under another religion, like Islam for example. Jesus said, do unto others. The first amendment protects the rights of Christians to worship as well. Render unto Caesar.
 
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gwenmead

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Highwayman said:
This gives out the message that it's not really the issue that you care about, but the idea of scoring a "victory" over Christians and getting to gloat about it.

Or it could just be that I was cranky about anti-gay rhetoric today.
 
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morningstar2651

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Belk

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You mean the way that gay folks were able to cope just fine -embrace with love, and just deal when the people of California spoke?

More like how the religious groups had to deal with it when African Americans got equal rights, and women got the vote, and every other time people have tried to use religious arguments to stand in the way of progress towards an egalitarian society.

Yall just want to force your worship of self and sinful pleasures down everybody's throats.
Yeah, funny how we demand to have the exact same rights you do.

This world religion of secular humanism and worship of self should receive the same treatment that yall like to push upon other religions.

What? You mean have every one of the past presidents and %99.9 of both houses of congress and %99.9 of the judicial branch as adherents of our religion and then start complaining about persecution? OK, works for me.
 
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wanderingone

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You mean the way that gay folks were able to cope just fine -embrace with love, and just deal when the people of California spoke?

The same way "interracial" couples accepted being told they couldn't get married, they fought the law. The majority should not determine access to public services for the minority.

Yall just want to force your worship of self and sinful pleasures down everybody's throats.

Unless you plan to hang out and watch this sinful pleasure or participate nothing is being forced down your throat. Straight people have no problem parading their marriages around, heck in Brooklyn large sections of busy roads have been shut down for big hasidic heterosexual weddings.

This world religion of secular humanism and worship of self should receive the same treatment that yall like to push upon other religions.

Who is y'all? My faith is Christian, the religious tradition I participate in is Lutheran. I am secure enough in my own life and in my faith not to need the government to enforce my personal religious beliefs on everyone.
 
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Andreusz

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You mean the way that gay folks were able to cope just fine -embrace with love, and just deal when the people of California spoke?
The sufragettes in England protested by damaging property. I'm not sure I agree with their methods, but the point I'm making is that homosexuals are not unique in this kind of protest --- a group whose rights hardly anyone denies used the same methods.

Yall just want to force your worship of self and sinful pleasures
I don't worship either of these things. I don't worship anything.

down everybody's throats.
Interesting choice of metaphor.

This world religion of secular humanism and worship of self should receive the same treatment that yall like to push upon other religions.
Secular humanism is not a religion. (Hence the word 'secular'.) I doubt if there are many people who worship themselves.
 
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Zaac

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It was fine the way it was.

No one gave you the authority on Christ or the Bible. The only thing you have to go on is the warped interpretations fed to you over a lifetime by the church, and your fear and reluctance to clear your eyes.

Christ gave me the authority to teach His word.
 
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Zaac

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More like how the religious groups had to deal with it when African Americans got equal rights, and women got the vote, and every other time people have tried to use religious arguments to stand in the way of progress towards an egalitarian society.


Sure did cause ain't no Biblical prohibition against folks being a certain skin color. There is one against homosexual fornication.:)


Yeah, funny how we demand to have the exact same rights you do.

I'm not demanding to marry someone of the same sex.

What? You mean have every one of the past presidents and %99.9 of both houses of congress and %99.9 of the judicial branch as adherents of our religion and then start complaining about persecution? OK, works for me.

99.9% would be everybody but you so obviously your math is waaaaaaaaaaay off.:thumbsup:
 
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Andreusz

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Sure did cause ain't no Biblical prohibition against folks being a certain skin color.
The apartheid government justified its position biblically.

And there are certainly Biblical prohibitions aginst women's rights.

I'm not demanding to marry someone of the same sex.
You are allowed to marry the person you fall in love with, but you deny homosexuals that right. Please stop being faux naive.
 
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