Do gays pushing for gay marriage realize what they are asking Christians to accept?

[b&wpac4]

Didn't the original American bound european people come to this land for Christian reasons?

The OP is a good one in that Christians are being demanded of to celebrate anti-Christian ways or else suffer secular sanctions. Someone had to answer all of the gay activism threads trying to attach itself to Christian reality.

Which Christian reasons would these be?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Which Christian reasons would these be?

Oppression, persecution and the reason also that the Puritans felt they were being forced to live by other peoples morality BY legislation?

Only the way it looks now, Christians of today will have no where to go free of this kind of pressure against them. It truly seems, just from reading these threads, that Bible-affirming Christians are hated and acted against just for believing the Apostolic testimony including the Gospels. We could start with the public school system somehow taken away from the Churches and turned into humanism factories.

 

[b&wpac4]

Oppression, persecution and the reason also that the Puritans felt they were being forced to live by other peoples morality BY legislation?

Nice irony there, no?

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Oppression, persecution and the reason also that the Puritans felt they were being forced to live by other peoples morality BY legislation?

Only the way it looks now, Christians of today will have no where to go free of this kind of pressure against them. It truly seems, just from reading these threads, that Bible-affirming Christians are hated and acted against just for believing the Apostolic testimony including the Gospels. We could start with the public school system somehow taken away from the Churches and turned into humanism factories.

Religion is not something that should be used to indoctrinate kids.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Oppression, persecution and the reason also that the Puritans felt they were being forced to live by other peoples morality BY legislation?

Only the way it looks now, Christians of today will have no where to go free of this kind of pressure against them. It truly seems, just from reading these threads, that Bible-affirming Christians are hated and acted against just for believing the Apostolic testimony including the Gospels. We could start with the public school system somehow taken away from the Churches and turned into humanism factories.

Religion is not something that should be used to indoctrinate kids. You want to control what is taught even though it does not fit into actual learning yet you are not happy when you are told that you cannot indoctrinate kids with religion, the irony meter broke again.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Religion is not something that should be used to indoctrinate kids.

Why not?

If sexual promiscuity can be, then why not religion?

I thought you were all about "choices?"

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Why not?

If sexual promiscuity can be, then why not religion?

I thought you were all about "choices?"

Religion is not, science, math, English or anything else of intellectual relevance. It is merely something born of opinion and that has no place in a place of learning.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Religion is not, science, math, English or anything else of intellectual relevance. It is merely something born of opinion and that has no place in a place of learning.

Yeah, I'll bring that I when I write Professor Lennox of Oxford.

One more example of a college founded by Christians.

One of many.

 

[Psudopod]

Yeah, I'll bring that I when I write Professor Lennox of Oxford.

One more example of a college founded by Christians.

One of many.

Because at the time the colleges were founded, pretty much everyone was a Christian. It’s like saying black people did nothing for the country in those days – totally ignorant of the culture of the time.
The point is these days, education shouldn’t be controlled by religion. People should learn about religion, and people should be able to pray personally or in groups. But it should no be forced. The should be no class prayers that all pupils are forced into, for any religion.
And on your other post, who is asking for the promotion of promiscuity?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

[/color]
Because at the time the colleges were founded, pretty much everyone was a Christian.

So what? Ceratinly shows that they didn't want to stay in the dark ages huh.

It’s like saying black people did nothing for the country in those days – totally ignorant of the culture of the time.

What country? Looking at Africa as a continent of countries is a learning process for sure.

The point is these days, education shouldn’t be controlled by religion.

How is that being done in Christian schools circa 2009!

People should learn about religion, and people should be able to pray personally or in groups. But it should no be forced.

Any place this is happening in the Christian world? My kids go to Christian schools with "forced" prayer, and many kids are allowed to op out. Any in fact.

The should be no class prayers that all pupils are forced into, for any religion.

But then why must children be forced to be indoctrianted into humansim?

And on your other post, who is asking for the promotion of promiscuity?

It's happening in numbers that stagger the mind. You're saying it's not?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

There's a thread about schools. Go there.

 

[Psudopod]

Originally Posted by Psudopod http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=50652257#post50652257

[/COLOR]Because at the time the colleges were founded, pretty much everyone was a Christian.


So what? Ceratinly shows that they didn't want to stay in the dark ages huh.

The point that you have missed is it’s irrelivant to say Christians set up the college if only Christians could set up the college. And at no time have I ever suggested that religion prevents learning. Many intelligent Christians have made great progress for the world. It’s fundamentalism and close-mindedness that prevents learning.

The point is these days, education shouldn’t be controlled by religion.

How is that being done in Christian schools circa 2009!

Did I say it was? I said it shouldn’t be.

People should learn about religion, and people should be able to pray personally or in groups. But it should no be forced.

Any place this is happening in the Christian world? My kids go to Christian schools with "forced" prayer, and many kids are allowed to op out. Any in fact.

UK schools have communial hymn singing and worship. You can opt out, but it does mean being one of a small group shut out. Nobody likes being shut-out in this image is everything right-wing world, so most kids just tune out, meaning the entire time is wasted.

The should be no class prayers that all pupils are forced into, for any religion.

But then why must children be forced to be indoctrianted into humansim?

Please show me evidence that children are being indoctrinated into humanism. It’s not happening on this side of the pond, I’ve not seen any evidence that it is happening on yours either.

And on your other post, who is asking for the promotion of promiscuity?

It's happening in numbers that stagger the mind. You're saying it's not?

I’m not aware of it, but I’m not omnipotent. Hence my asking for further information.
[/quote]

 

[Polycarp_fan]

The point that you have missed is it’s irrelivant to say Christians set up the college if only Christians could set up the college.

And you must have missed the part where we take in our greatest enemies and even let them become "teaachers" over us. You have heard of Richard Dawkins haven't you? It's the same in our Christian founded universities here in the colonies. Living both Christ and free exchange of ideas. i notice though, that once the anti-Christians set up shop, there goes the free exchange of ideas bye-bye.

And at no time have I ever suggested that religion prevents learning.

Many intelligent Christians have made great progress for the world.

It’s fundamentalism and close-mindedness that prevents learning.

Fundamentals makes one a Christian or NOT a Christian. Just like in your Darwinian evolutionists. Ask Dr. Dawkins.

UK schools have communial hymn singing and worship. You can opt out, but it does mean being one of a small group shut out.

Singing nyths shouldn't harm anyone. I learned all about evolution in school and I still laugh it off for the most part. It was silly then and is hilarious now. From nothing to mud to monkeys to man. It's like a SNL skit.

Nobody likes being shut-out in this image is everything right-wing world, so most kids just tune out, meaning the entire time is wasted.

You must not have a TV or go out much. If you aren't a liberal-progressive in public education, you are shut out by law and a shouting group of left-wingers. Ask the Minutemen.

Please show me evidence that children are being indoctrinated into humanism.

John Dewey and his Humanist counterparts set this into motion decades ago. They have been masters at beings masters.

It’s not happening on this side of the pond, I’ve not seen any evidence that it is happening on yours either.

The Humanist Manifesto has been implemented into ever facet of the education process. http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto1.html

There ya go.

Read II and III as well.

I’m not aware of it, but I’m not omnipotent. Hence my asking for further information.

Leftist fundamentalism (Humanism) is a tough indoctrination to rid oneself of. It can get you unemployed rather quickly as well if you do.

 

[Maren]

Didn't the original American bound european people come to this land for Christian reasons?

No, not really, though it can be said that many of the European people came to America to get away from oppressive Christians that forced their beliefs on everyone.

The OP is a good one in that Christians are being demanded of to celebrate anti-Christian ways or else suffer secular sanctions. Someone had to answer all of the gay activism threads trying to attach itself to Christian reality.

Sorry, but no. Perhaps you can show me the law that says you must attend a gay wedding or send presents? Your claim is much like saying that Freedom of Religion forces you to celebrate Islam or Buddhism. The fact that something is legal does not force you to celebrate it.

 

[I <3 Abraham]

They are asking not only for sodomy to be recognized as normal, but on top of that they are asking that the traditional relationship between man and woman where children are created is to be legally synonymous with two sodomites engaging in what God's word calls a grave sin.

I've heard it said that white people don't have culture. That is a lie. White people have a Christian culture that is being torn apart at the seams by special interest groups such as this. You don't hear about Jewish or Muslim people pushing for gay marriage recognition in Israel or Iran. But for some reason it is being pushed in America and Europe.

Are you sure you are a Unitarian?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

No, not really, though it can be said that many of the European people came to America to get away from oppressive Christians that forced their beliefs on everyone.

That would be the Anglican Church would it not?

Sorry, but no. Perhaps you can show me the law that says you must attend a gay wedding or send presents?

Children must go to school. It's the law. Also, it appears that a couple of lesbians in New Mexico forced their gay marriage on a photographer by law.

Your claim is much like saying that Freedom of Religion forces you to celebrate Islam or Buddhism.

Yeah, yeah. That seems just about right. Except Christian voices don't get it so lucky.

The fact that something is legal does not force you to celebrate it.

That sure seems the nature of Yes on Prop 8.

 

[Maren]

That would be the Anglican Church would it not?

Are you trying to imply the Anglican Church, particularly the Anglican church of the 15th through 18th Centuries, is (was) not Christian?

Children must go to school. It's the law.

And yet you've never been able to show how children are forced to "celebrate" (whatever it is you mean by that, it definitely does not seem to be the dictionary definition) homosexuality in schools. Even in one of your favorite examples, the case where a kindergarten class wanted to share their teacher marriage children were allowed to opt out (and some even did). By contrast, I remember a class celebrating their teacher getting married (heterosexual) but children not being allowed to opt out. Seems like it is not homosexuality that is forced to be celebrated.

Not to mention, the law does not force you to send your child to public school, merely to a school (or even a home school, in most places).

Also, it appears that a couple of lesbians in New Mexico forced their gay marriage on a photographer by law.

No, they merely wanted the photographer to do her job without discriminating, as the law requires. The photographer was not being forced to celebrate the wedding, just to take pictures of it. And it would be the same if the photographer had refused to take pictures because the couple was Christian, since the law also protects being discriminated against on the basis of religion.

Yeah, yeah. That seems just about right. Except Christian voices don't get it so lucky.

Strange, I seem to recall that everyone is forced to celebrate Christmas in the US, and even in Europe. Employers are forced to allow Christians time off for church services, even services like are held on Ash Wednesday. Seems like many Christians simply because others are getting some of the same advantages Christians already enjoy -- and claiming it is discrimination when they must make the same concessions that others are forced to make for them.

That sure seems the nature of Yes on Prop 8.

No, Yes on Prop. 8 was trying to force people to not celebrate something that would have no effect those voting Yes on Prop. 8.

 

[David Brider]

Strange, I seem to recall that everyone is forced to celebrate Christmas in the US, and even in Europe.

I wouldn't say forced, but...going off at a tangent, but in the UK at least, Christmas Day is one of eight public holidays celebrated throughout the year, on which most businesses do not trade and people generally are not expected to work. Of the others, four are explicitly Christian or at least have some sort of Christian relevance, whilst the other three are purely secular. None of the other major faiths are represented in this way as public holidays, meaning that AFAIK Hindus, Jews, Muslims, etc., must take days to celebrate the major holidays of their faith out of their annual leave allowance. (I may be wrong about that, or it may vary from employer to employer - if anyone knows any better, please correct me!)

I don't know how this compares to the USA?

David.

 

[praying]

What does this:

Children must go to school. It's the law. Also, it appears that a couple of lesbians in New Mexico forced their gay marriage on a photographer by law.

Have to do with this:

The OP is a good one in that Christians are being demanded of to celebrate anti-Christian ways or else suffer secular sanctions. Someone had to answer all of the gay activism threads trying to attach itself to Christian reality.

Sorry, but no. Perhaps you can show me the law that says you must attend a gay wedding or send presents? Your claim is much like saying that Freedom of Religion forces you to celebrate Islam or Buddhism. The fact that something is legal does not force you to celebrate it.

No one is asking you to accept anything, you are free to accept or not accpet anything you want.

 

[Maren]

I wouldn't say forced, but...going off at a tangent, but in the UK at least, Christmas Day is one of eight public holidays celebrated throughout the year, on which most businesses do not trade and people generally are not expected to work. Of the others, four are explicitly Christian or at least have some sort of Christian relevance, whilst the other three are purely secular. None of the other major faiths are represented in this way as public holidays, meaning that AFAIK Hindus, Jews, Muslims, etc., must take days to celebrate the major holidays of their faith out of their annual leave allowance. (I may be wrong about that, or it may vary from employer to employer - if anyone knows any better, please correct me!)

I don't know how this compares to the USA?

David.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. It is, instead, the rather odd usage of the word "force" by those that claim they will be "forced to celebrate" gay marriages if they become legal.

As for the US, only Christmas is an officially recognized religious holiday (though some states celebrate others, such as Easter). Other than that, there is a law requiring employers to allow employees time off to participate in religious observances (such as weekly church service or holidays).