Do Dispensationalists share in the guilt of bloodshed related to Israel?

[Semper-Fi]

The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,” Christ, and of salvation through Him—the Bible calls the scepter promise.

But the material and national promises relating to many nations, national wealth, prosperity and power, and possession of the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.

Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob.
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The sceptre shall not depart from Judah …”
(Genesis 49:10).
But the birthright was Joseph’s”
(1 Chronicles 5:2).

This birthright was not to be
inherited by all the tribes of Israel!

It was not given to the Jews! Only a
part of the Israelites—the descendants
of Joseph—was to inherit these
tremendous national promises!

"But go rather to the lost sheep
of the house of Israel."

The [church is never] called the
house of Israel in the bible.
house of Israel | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

"and let my name be named on them, and
the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
and let them grow into a multitude in the
midst of the earth” (verses 14-16).

Israel did not confer this blessing on just one,
but on both—“Bless the lads,” he said.
This blessing went upon them jointly.

“Let my name be named on them” was
part of this blessing. His name was Israel.

Hence, it was the descendants of these lads,
not the descendants of Judah, or the Jews,
who were named Israel.

The name Israel was to be indelibly
stamped on Ephraim and Manasseh!

 

[David Kent]

Israel readily receives Jews from all over the world into their country and awards them full citizenship.

Many of them come from destitute and perhaps persecuted circumstances in Russia, Ethiopia, Arab nations and many other places in the world from which they flee.

There are tremendous numbers of people who must be supported with charitable augmentation above and beyond what Israel (with her tremendous needed Military budget) can support through taxes alone.

Israel gladly receives charitable help from many people in the U.S. beyond what our government budgets. Many of them are Christians who see the plight of the only democracy in a neighborhood of thugs who want to wipe her off the face of the map as something in need of and worthy of our support - particularly because she takes so many destitute Jews into her keeping from areas where they are not wanted and even flee persecution.

In many cases these Christians tie, as best they can, their giving to the evangelizing of the Jewish people.

The giving from those Christians who are of the "replacement" persuasion is understandably not so much.

In fact many of them would gladly turn the Jewish people over to their anti semitic enemies - them being in many cases borderline anti semitic themselves.

I hope that helps to answer your question.

There are Jews who flee from those countries that don't stay but move on to other countries. One of our foster children moved To the USA and married a jewess who emigrated with her parents from Russia, but then moved to the USA and one of my nephews married an Israeli woman and the live in the UK.

 

[William Lefranc]

Gospel means "good news". From this perspective, there are more than 2 types of good news preached throughout the Bible.

For example, the good news preached to Abraham was based on Genesis 12

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This "good news" was not valid for the Jews, nor us now.

There are 500,000 Jews scattered all over the world that have bowed the knee to Jesus. In Israel, we have today about 30,000 Jews that have confessed Jesus as their Lord and Savior. All these people have heard the Good News of the gospel, so could you please clarify your statement where the Good News is not valid for the Jews?

By the way, Jews heard the Good News in the book of Acts from chapter two on and thousands upon thousands of Jews came to the knowledge of salvation through the lips of Peter and others.

So where do you get your statement that the "Good News" is not valid for the Jews today?

 

[His student]

There are Jews who flee from those countries that don't stay but move on to other countries. One of our foster children moved To the USA and married a jewess who emigrated with her parents from Russia, but then moved to the USA and one of my nephews married an Israeli woman and the live in the UK.

I sure can't blame any Jew for not staying in Israel.

Millions of Muslims surrounding that little country, who have sworn to kill every Jewish man woman and child in Israel before it's all over is a pretty good incentive to move to the U.S. if they get a chance.

One thing about moving to the U.S. is that there is a better chance of them getting hitched up with some Messianic Jews than if they stay in Israel.

Eternal life is a good thing.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

First can we keep this conversation clear of snarky remarks, they are beneath us.

I don't think it was out of fear. Paul wanted the opportunity to preach the gospel to these unbelieving Jews. They were aware that Timothy's father was a Greek and therefore, he may not be circumcised.
The Jews would not have listened to Timothy or Paul if they thought that either one were not circumcised and therefore, unclean. So it was purely for the advancement of the gospel.

It wasn't snarky, it was a true statement. I have shown Dave he was wrong many times before yet he continues to repeat the same mistakes to others. Anyway, I do agree with you regarding Timothy...

 

[David Kent]

One thing about moving to the U.S. is that there is a better chance of them getting hitched up with some Messianic Jews than if they stay in Israel.

What do you mean by Messianic Jews?

 

[His student]

What do you mean by Messianic Jews?

Jews who believe in the one and only Messiah for Israel and the world - Jesus Christ.

 

[Guojing]

There are 500,000 Jews scattered all over the world that have bowed the knee to Jesus. In Israel, we have today about 30,000 Jews that have confessed Jesus as their Lord and Savior. All these people have heard the Good News of the gospel, so could you please clarify your statement where the Good News is not valid for the Jews?

By the way, Jews heard the Good News in the book of Acts from chapter two on and thousands upon thousands of Jews came to the knowledge of salvation through the lips of Peter and others.

So where do you get your statement that the "Good News" is not valid for the Jews today?

I already quoted you that good news in Genesis 12:1-3. That good news was a promise to their father Abraham.

Do any Jews still go around now believing that God will make "each of them " a great nation?

 

[Dave L]

This is, of course, ABSOLUTELY correct. for the Holy Spirit said it. But what you are forgetting is that in other places, that SAME Holy Spirit promised that HE will bring that entire nation back to belief.

This will never happen. Why? Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. The broken off unbelievers will be reattached to biblical Israel only upon acceptance of Christ.

 

[Biblewriter]

This will never happen. Why? Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. The broken of unbelievers will be reattached to biblical Israel only upon acceptance of Christ.

When you say this, you are denying explicitly stated scripture. The thing that concerns me the most about this denial is that I have repeatedly shown you these explicitly stated scriptures, and you STILL deny them. You are attributing greater authority to YOUR OPINION abut what some scriptures MEAN, that to EXPLICIT STATEMENTS made by the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[Dave L]

When you say this, you are denying explicitly stated scripture. The thing that concerns me the most about this denial is that I have repeatedly shown you these explicitly stated scriptures, and you STILL deny them.

There are several reasons a national restoration is not possible. Paul places the broken off Jews under God's wrath until the end of the world.

“forbidding us to speak to the nations that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always, but the anger did come upon them—to the end!” 1 Thessalonians 2:16 (YLT)


“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)


“Jesus answered, My kingdom (kingship, royal power) belongs not to this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My followers would have been fighting to keep Me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, My kingdom is not from here (this world); [it has no such origin or source].” John 18:36 (AMP)

 

[Biblewriter]

There are several reasons a national restoration is not possible. Paul places the broken off Jews under God's wrath until the end of the world.

“forbidding us to speak to the nations that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always, but the anger did come upon them—to the end!” 1 Thessalonians 2:16 (YLT)


“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)


“Jesus answered, My kingdom (kingship, royal power) belongs not to this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My followers would have been fighting to keep Me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, My kingdom is not from here (this world); [it has no such origin or source].” John 18:36 (AMP)

Once again, you are using your INTERPRETATION of the RESULTS of these scriptures as a pretended excuse to deny what MANY other scriptures explicitly state.

And in the case of the last one you quoted, you had to rely upon a "translation" that MATERIALLY altered the Greek text. For the "translation" changed the word "now" (nun, in the Greek) to "as it is."

At the present time,His kingdom is indeed not of this world. But He has EXPLICITLY and REPEATEDLY told us that, n a future day, it will indeed be in the world of that day. There neither is, nor can be, any excuse whatsoever for anyone even pretending to be a Christian teacher, to deny these VERY MANY EXPLICITLY STATED PRONOUNCEMENTS of God.

 

[Dave L]

Once again, you are using your INTERPRETATION of the RESULTS of these scriptures as a pretended excuse to deny what MANY other scriptures explicitly state.

And in the case of the last one you quoted, you had to rely upon a "translation" that MATERIALLY altered the Greek text. For the "translation" changed the word "now" (nun, in the Greek) to "as it is."

At the present time,His kingdom is indeed not of this world. But He has EXPLICITLY and REPEATEDLY told us that, n a future day, it will indeed be in the world of that day. There neither is, nor can be, any excuse whatsoever for anyone even pretending to be a Christian teacher, to deny these VERY MANY EXPLICITLY STATED PRONOUNCEMENTS of God.

another reason? Circumcision made one a Physical Jew (physical Israelite). Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross turning all unbelieving Jews into gentiles.

 

[Biblewriter]

another reason? Circumcision made one a Physical Jew (physical Israelite). Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross turning all unbelieving Jews into gentiles.

No scripture even implies that circumcision made someone a Jew or that an unbelieving Jew becomes, by his unbelief, a gentile.

 

[Dave L]

No scripture even implies that an unbelieving Jew becomes, by his unbelief, a gentile.

Circumcision made one a Jew. Christ abolished it.

 

[Biblewriter]

Circumcision made one a Jew. Christ abolished it.

chapter and verse? they do not exist.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Circumcision made one a Jew. Christ abolished it.

Jew is short for Judah.
Jews are decedents of Judah by birth.

 

[Dave L]

chapter and verse? they do not exist.

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

Jew is short for Judah.
Jews are decedents of Judah by birth.

I'm using the current meaning.

 

[Semper-Fi]

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

1 Corinthians 7:19 (KJV)
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

the Oracles of God

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of [the oracles of God]; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
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If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God]; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:

that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11