Do creationists not know their own Bibles?

[pitabread]

In another thread, a creationist claimed that Jesus was a literal 6 day creationist. There is nothing in the Bible that supports this claim (nada, zilch, zip).

I'm used to creationists not knowing anything about science. I'm even used to creationists not knowing anything about creationism. But I'm starting to wonder if creationists know anything about the Bible at all.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In another thread, a creationist claimed that Jesus was a literal 6 day creationist. There is nothing in the Bible that supports this claim (nada, zilch, zip).

I'm used to creationists not knowing anything about science. I'm even used to creationists not knowing anything about creationism. But I'm starting to wonder if creationists know anything about the Bible at all.

It's a claim made on a fairly weak inference. Jesus refers to Adam and Noah a couple of times in His teaching, therefore the inference is that Jesus must have been a literal six day young earth creationist. Of course that doesn't actually follow, but that's basically how that goes.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rachel20]

I don't know of any verse that would prove such a statement. But if relativity and time dilation do make the 6 day and 15 billion year views possible equivalents (depending on location of observer - God or earth?), then Jesus could be both a YEC and OEC at the same time

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

 

[topher694]

Cool. I find that accusing a group of Christians of not knowing their Bible at all is almost always a respectful and effective discussion tool.

 

[pitabread]

Cool. I find that accusing a group of Christians of not knowing their Bible at all is almost always a respectful and effective discussion tool.

It wasn't intended as respectful. It was intended as puzzling observation. Especially since I asked said creationists to support the claim, and neither of the two in question could.

Maybe you can chime in on the other discussion and ask said creationists why they would make claims the Bible doesn't support.

 

[topher694]

It wasn't intended as respectful. It was intended as puzzling observation. Especially since I asked said creationists to support the claim, and neither of the two in question could.

Maybe you can chime in on the other discussion and ask said creationists why they would make claims the Bible doesn't support.

Ooooooh, it wasn't intended to be respectful? Thanks for clearing that up. Glad we have you to also clear up what claims the Bible supports and what claims it doesn't. We've been needing someone like you for a few thousand years. How lucky for us!

 

[Halbhh]

No one should allow themselves to be provoked and then just merely argue.

About the topic --

It's easy to miss the real meaning in the gospels until one is reading through fully (and usually that means also more than once or twice!), because the trouble is the missing context that allows someone to hear and understand what is actually being said in a verse.

To know a verse or a passage, 15 or 20 passages -- those are not enough.

So, in Mark chapter 10 for example, unless a person listens (reads through fully and truly listens, therefore without trying to impose their own previous goal, or expected meaning) and thus hears, they won't yet know what is being talked about (until they do listen).

So, what is Jesus talking of, when he addresses the Garden of Eden for instance?

Listening, we can begin to notice and hear (the challenging!) real thing being spoken about, for example, in Mark chapter 10 --

1 Jesus then left that place and went into the region of Judea and across the Jordan. Again crowds of people came to him, and as was his custom, he taught them.

2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”

3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.

4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Mark 10 NIV

So, what is being addressed in this passage, for example, isn't some details of creation like time duration, but something far more challenging and serious, right now -- divorce.
(which often happens from either lusts or from unforgiveness, or both)

His words are for right now -- today -- right here and now, in your life. Whether your life, here and now, is a good life, or a poor one.

Here. Now.

So, His words are never about geology or time duration or planetary geometry or whatever, biochemistry. Not ever. They are instead about things that are eternal truths of living as beings, now and in the life to come. Here, love and forgiveness, vs being 'hard in heart'.

 

[Silverback]

It's a claim made on a fairly weak inference. Jesus refers to Adam and Noah a couple of times in His teaching, therefore the inference is that Jesus must have been a literal six day young earth creationist. Of course that doesn't actually follow, but that's basically how that goes.

-CryptoLutheran

All scripture is inspired...correct?, inspired by God...correct?, God created the heavens and the earth...correct? Christ is God, of the same essence as the father...correct?

Then Jesus was a creationist.

 

[topher694]

It wasn't intended as respectful.

From the forum guidlines:
Members who participate in the Creation & Evolution forum are expected to treat one another with courtesy and respect at all times, ESPECIALLY when you disagree with each other. It is not a flame for a member to disagree with another member's argument or opinion on a specific topic.

Uh-oh!

 

[pitabread]

From the forum guidlines:
Members who participate in the Creation & Evolution forum are expected to treat one another with courtesy and respect at all times, ESPECIALLY when you disagree with each other. It is not a flame for a member to disagree with another member's argument or opinion on a specific topic.

Uh-oh!

Guess I'll be banned for life then. Oh noes.

 

[pitabread]

Glad we have you to also clear up what claims the Bible supports and what claims it doesn't.

Can you support the claim in question? If not, then what are you complaining about?

 

[pitabread]

All scripture is inspired...correct?, inspired by God...correct?, God created the heavens and the earth...correct? Christ is God, of the same essence as the father...correct?

Then Jesus was a creationist.

In this context, I'm referring to treating Genesis 1 as the literal history of the universe (e.g. literal 6 day creation). That's typically what a creationist refers to in this forum, not simply someone who believes God made the universe.

There is nothing in the Bible that states that Jesus believed in a literal 6 day creation.

 

[pitabread]

It's a claim made on a fairly weak inference. Jesus refers to Adam and Noah a couple of times in His teaching, therefore the inference is that Jesus must have been a literal six day young earth creationist. Of course that doesn't actually follow, but that's basically how that goes.

Yeah, I've seen these claims before, but like you say it's a rather weak inference at best. It would be a different story if said reference was followed with "oh and by the way, my reference to Adam is as a literal first human being created in the literal 6th day of creation, which you all should be taking literally".

But there is nothing like that in there.

 

[Halbhh]

All scripture is inspired...correct?, inspired by God...correct?, God created the heavens and the earth...correct? Christ is God, of the same essence as the father...correct?

Then Jesus was a creationist.

Yes, but what was He saying, in Mark chapter 10, or any other place in the Gospels? To hear correctly, a person has to listen differently than the way scripture is often used here on CF (and other places), where verses are used without real listening to merely argue doctrines. Post 7 gives an example.

 

[LoricaLady]

I agree that the OP is basically insulting. You came here to tell us Christians that we don't know what we are talking about, presenting yourself as the big time "expert" who can help us see the "error" of our ways. I believe the Father will forgive those who have misunderstood anything in the Bible. Those who attack it and believers, though, should beware. The time is short.

 

[LoricaLady]

P.S. This is my last comment as these kinds of "debates" are endless and ultimately pointless. Messiah made it clear He believed in a literal Adam and Eve, Noah and the Flood, Sodom and Gommorah, etc. It couldn't be more obvious that He accepted the historical facts in the Bible.

 

[pitabread]

You came here to tell us Christians

I didn't say Christians. I said creationists; there is a difference.

(And yes, I realize I'm generalizing in the OP, but I do find certain behaviors to be common enough among certain groups here.)

Those who attack it and believers, though, should beware.

Funny enough, I also see creationists routinely attack their fellow Christians. In that same thread, the same creationist claimed that anyone who accepted evolution wasn't a Christian.

I guess they should beware huh?

 

[pitabread]

Messiah made it clear He believed in a literal Adam and Eve, Noah and the Flood, Sodom and Gommorah, etc. It couldn't be more obvious that He accepted the historical facts in the Bible.

There is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus was a literal 6 day creationist (the topic of the thread). If you think otherwise, please elaborate.

 

[LoricaLady]

If you don't see the obvious in what I already said, you won't see anything else I say. Bye!

 

[ViaCrucis]

All scripture is inspired...correct?, inspired by God...correct?, God created the heavens and the earth...correct? Christ is God, of the same essence as the father...correct?

Then Jesus was a creationist.

It seems you missed a step somewhere.

Yes, Scripture is inspired by God.
Yes, God created the heavens and the earth.
Yes, Christ is God, of the same essence as the Father.

But no, it does not follow that Christ was a young earth creationist. That claim does not depend on the three points you raise, but is a complete non-sequitur.

I can just as easily say that Scripture is inspired by God, God created the heavens and the earth, Christ is God, therefore He knew very well that evolution occurred and that the earth is 4.5 billion years old--He's God after all, He's the author of all things, and the Scriptures bear witness to Him and the salvation we have in Him.

My statement is as valid as yours given the sequence provided.

-CryptoLutheran