Do Creationists Believe in the Universe

Givemeareason said:

Just to be clear I am only trying to understand views.

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With a multiplicity of views, is there any one you're looking for in particular?

AV1611VET said:

Underground and in the oceans are not "one place.""Gathered" means "stand aside."

If you have 30 men in a company gathered around 5 civilians, the company commander might say, "Stand aside and let the civilians come forth."

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And dry land appeared when that water stood aside and went underground. Dry land was not created - the word create nowhere appears in this verse. It appeared when the waters were moved, because it already existed.

JustHisKid said:

Seriously?

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No, he's not really, that's why he avoided mu earlier post.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...elieve-in-the-universe.7896491/#post-68257359

Justatruthseeker said:

And dry land appeared when that water stood aside and went underground. Dry land was not created - the word create nowhere appears in this verse. It appeared when the waters were moved, because it already existed.

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That is correct.

God called for land to appear, and the molecules underwater came together and made Pangaea, then the waters stood aside and Pangaea came forth.

AV1611VET said:

Which was it?

Did He move, or did He brood?

Or did He move brooding?

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Here's Strong's analysis: http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7363&t=KJV

Givemeareason said:

Yes, I was aware of that. But I don't think he was promoting a literal creation as in Genesis which I am trying to understand.

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Would all depend on one's interpretation of Genesis, wouldn't it? But what does this have to do with whether the Big Bang is correct or not and thereby accepting it, being Christian or not? I've yet to see anyone able to defend treating a universe 99% plasma with the physics for solids, liquids and gasses. At least without first requiring I put "faith" in 95% Fairie Dust, because they use the wrong physics. So whether I am a Christian or not, why would I accept an obviously flawed theory?

AV1611VET said:

That is correct.

God called for land to appear, and the molecules underwater came together and made Pangaea, then the waters stood aside and Pangaea came forth.

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So you are going to create dry land, even when you know create is not used or even implied???? It simply appeared when the water moved - because it was already there.

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Justatruthseeker said:

So you are going to create dry land, even when you know create is not used or even implied???? It simply appeared when the water moved - because it was already there.

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Either way, it was underwater, then it wasn't.

Fair enough?

You're saying Pangaea was created ex nihilo with the waters of the earth; and I'm saying the waters of the earth were created first (ex nihilo), then earth came from the waters (ex materia).

Correct?

Ex nihilo or ex materia, I don't think it's something to lose any sleep over.

AV1611VET said:

Which was it?

Did He move, or did He brood?

Or did He move brooding?

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You tell us.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7363.htm

"flutter, move, shake

A primitive root; to brood; by implication, to be relaxed -- flutter, move, shake."

Or was He relaxed, encompassing upon the destruction that had occurred, fluttering (so to speak) as a bird hatching eggs on it's nest? Bringing that warmth which allowed evaporation of the waters?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brood

"to sit upon (eggs) to hatch, as a bird; incubate."

AV1611VET said:

Either way, it was underwater, then it wasn't.

Fair enough?

You're saying Pangaea was created ex nihilo with the waters of the earth; and I'm saying the waters of the earth were created first (ex nihilo), then earth came from the waters (ex materia).

Correct?

Ex nihilo or ex materia, I don't think it's something to lose any sleep over.

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Correct yes and no. I am saying the entire universe along with the earth was created ex-nihilo in verse one - complete with life. That life has went extinct 5 times, with man being the sixth creation. Soon to again undergo destruction for the sixth time, with the 7th and final creation yet to come.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Only the representative of each class survived the cataclysm in each era. Plants, bacteria, fish, reptiles, mammals. Man will pass on into the 7th as a new creation along with a lion that eats straw. The earth will not be created ex-nihilo in the 7th creation either, but all will arise from pre-existing things, even if it will become desolate and waste - as it was destroyed in the second verse.

EDIT:
As for Pangaea - that existed until the Tower of Babel, and is why all life that was created before the era in which man was created, is found on almost every continent as they are now, and man and the animals created with him are not.

Justatruthseeker said:

Correct yes and no. I am saying the entire universe along with the earth was created ex-nihilo in verse one - complete with life. That life has went extinct 5 times, with man being the sixth creation. Soon to again undergo destruction for the sixth time, with the 7th and final creation yet to come.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Only the representative of each class survived the cataclysm in each era. Plants, bacteria, fish, reptiles, mammals. Man will pass on into the 7th as a new creation along with a lion that eats straw. The earth will not be created ex-nihilo in the 7th creation either, but all will arise from pre-existing things, even if it will become desolate and waste - as it was destroyed in the second verse.

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False, since each of the Days/Ages is shown in the first 34 verses of Genesis. God has but Seven Days with 6 periods of Creative work and 1 Day of Eternity. The entire HISTORY of the first 6 Days is told in Genesis Chapter 1. It includes FUTURE events which will NOT happen until AFTER Jesus returns to this Planet at the end of the present 6th period of work. Gen 1:28-31

When the present 6th Day is over, ALL of God's work will finally be finished which in Hebrew means completed or made perfect. Then, God will rest (Heb-shabath) or CEASE to Create for that's the way ALL of God's work ends, in perfection. Amen? To believe that God Ceased Creating in the past shows a lack of understanding of what is actually written in the first 34 verses of God's Holy Word. The 7th Day is Future to 2015. Amen?

Ben West said:

False, since each of the Days/Ages is shown in the first 34 verses of Genesis. God has but Seven Days with 6 periods of Creative work and 1 Day of Eternity. The entire HISTORY of the first 6 Days is told in Genesis Chapter 1. It includes FUTURE events which will NOT happen until AFTER Jesus returns to this Planet at the end of the present 6th period of work. Gen 1:28-31

When the present 6th Day is over, ALL of God's work will finally be finished which in Hebrew means completed or made perfect. Then, God will rest (Heb-shabath) or CEASE to Create for that's the way ALL of God's work ends, in perfection. Amen? To believe that God Ceased Creating in the past shows a lack of understanding of what is actually written in the first 34 verses of God's Holy Word. The 7th Day is Future to 2015. Amen?

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And the evening was, and the morning was, the first day...... Excuse me, but from your interpretation the sun, moon and stars were not created until the 4th day - so there could be no evening and morning by which to tell time. Please do not ask me to accept obviously flawed interpretations starting with the Hebrew "hayah" in verse 2, which means "became" not was. The earth fell out of a flourishing state into a state of destruction.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1961.htm

"to fall out, come to pass, become, be"

And tohu wa bohu is used nowhere else but here and two other verses (Isa.34:11, and Jer.4:23), and in both of them it points to a once flourishing condition laid desolate and waste.

Don't confuse when man was created with when the dinosaurs were created, nor the Cambrian creation, nor the others, nor the universe... The verb in the 1st verse is in the past tense - completed. Don't fall prey to religious dogma. What will occurr on the 7th day (era - long period of time) is no more different than what occurred the other 6 times - creation followed by destruction, followed by creation. Declaring the glory of God, because He did not create the earth in vain - to be lifeless - but to exist in a flourishing state, regardless of natural events (or unnatural) that might change that for a brief time.

God has not yet completed His works, but continues to work for the coming creation, for that 7th day is of the future.

http://biblehub.com/john/5-17.htm

"In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.""

Justatruthseeker said:

(1) And the evening was, and the morning was, the first day...... Excuse me, but from your interpretation the sun, moon and stars were not created until the 4th day - so there could be no evening and morning by which to tell time. Please do not ask me to accept obviously flawed interpretations starting with the Hebrew "hayah" in verse 2, which means "became" not was. The earth fell out of a flourishing state into a state of destruction.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1961.htm

"to fall out, come to pass, become, be"

(2) And tohu wa bohu is used nowhere else but here and two other verses (Isa.34:11, and Jer.4:23), and in both of them it points to a once flourishing condition laid desolate and waste.

(3) Don't confuse when man was created with when the dinosaurs were created, nor the Cambrian creation, nor the others, nor the universe... The verb in the 1st verse is in the past tense - completed. Don't fall prey to religious dogma. What will occurr on the 7th day (era - long period of time) is no more different than what occurred the other 6 times - creation followed by destruction, followed by creation. Declaring the glory of God, because He did not create the earth in vain - to be lifeless - but to exist in a flourishing state, regardless of natural events (or unnatural) that might change that for a brief time.

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You are scripturally confused. Here are the answers.

1. The evening and the morning were to show that each period of time (Yowm) had and ending and a beginning. God doesn't define the length of the Days/Ages of the Creation leaving them open to be any length. The first firmament/heaven was made on the 2nd Day Gen 1:6-8 and had NO Sun since Jesus lit Adam's world just as He will also provide the light for the Third Heaven. Rev 21:23

The Stars, which God lit up on the 4th Day Gen 1:16 are the Stars of our second firmament/heaven which was made on the 3rd Day, Gen 2:4 along with the Third Heaven ll Cor 12:2 also called the New Heaven and New Earth in Rev 21:1. What is interesting is that Space Telescopes have recently confirmed that the lighting of the First Stars of our cosmos was HUNDREDS of Millions of years AFTER the Big Bang agreeing totally which God told us in Genesis, which NO man of the time could have possibly known.

(2) The air dust and water which God created in the beginning was dead, just as anything apart from God is subject to death. It was desolate and waste and would not be formed or shaped until God the Son, Jesus, comes into the physical world on the First Day. Gen 1:3

(3) Dinosaurs were on the present Earth and nothing is mentioned of them in Scripture on Adam's Earth. They became extinct some 65 Million years ago which was long BEFORE man was "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually. However, Adam was made physically some 13 Billion years before he was born again Spiritually or "created in God's Image" which is created in Christ, Spiritually. Gen 5:1-2 Amen?

Givemeareason said:

Then they must not be YECs?

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Sure they are. God started creating, and BANG! there was everything.

About your earlier posts: The bible never specifically mentions your brain, so maybe it doesn't exist either?

Givemeareason said:

Just that it was created first?

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Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Ben West said:

You are scripturally confused. Here are the answers.

1. The evening and the morning were to show that each period of time (Yowm) had and ending and a beginning. God doesn't define the length of the Days/Ages of the Creation leaving them open to be any length. The first firmament/heaven was made on the 2nd Day Gen 1:6-8 and had NO Sun since Jesus lit Adam's world just as He will also provide the light for the Third Heaven. Rev 21:23

The Stars, which God lit up on the 4th Day Gen 1:16 are the Stars of our second firmament/heaven which was made on the 3rd Day, Gen 2:4 along with the Third Heaven ll Cor 12:2 also called the New Heaven and New Earth in Rev 21:1. What is interesting is that Space Telescopes have recently confirmed that the lighting of the First Stars of our cosmos was HUNDREDS of Millions of years AFTER the Big Bang agreeing totally which God told us in Genesis, which NO man of the time could have possibly known.

(2) The air dust and water which God created in the beginning was dead, just as anything apart from God is subject to death. It was desolate and waste and would not be formed or shaped until God the Son, Jesus, comes into the physical world on the First Day. Gen 1:3

(3) Dinosaurs were on the present Earth and nothing is mentioned of them in Scripture on Adam's Earth. They became extinct some 65 Million years ago which was long BEFORE man was "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually. However, Adam was made physically some 13 Billion years before he was born again Spiritually or "created in God's Image" which is created in Christ, Spiritually. Gen 5:1-2 Amen?

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1) Exactly - God doesn't define the lengths of days - because a day to God is as a thousand years. But you sure seem to have no problem with what God Himself chose not to do, defining lengths of days when there wasn't even a day existing yet until the 4th day. So Jesus went away every evening until the fourth day when the sun was created so no more light would be shed until he came back in the morning? This is what you want me to believe?

2) Still accusing Jesus of the same false claims of the Sadducee and high priests?

http://biblehub.com/mark/14-56.htm
"Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, and they were not finding any. 56For many were giving false testimony against Him, but their testimony was not consistent....Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?...."I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."…

http://biblehub.com/john/5-17.htm

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.…"

But in his defense against these false accusations, Jesus replied: "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."

But in his defense against these false accusations, Jesus replied: "You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him? 16"And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?" 17As He said this, all His opponents were being humiliated; and the entire crowd was rejoicing over all the glorious things being done by Him."

But in his defense against these false accusations, Jesus replied: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

In his defense against these false accusations, Jesus replied: "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

In his defense against these false accusations, Jesus replied: "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."

But go ahead, let's hear your inconsistent accusations against him.

3) You are confused as to what image man is made in. Man was made with the knowledge of good. Satan tricked him into partaking also of that knowledge of evil. "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." That image is mind - consciousness - the ability to discern above instinct. God is pure mind - consciousness - the same energy from which all things are and to which all things will return. The same thing that makes it possible for you to breathe, move, and think. Energy transforms into matter and matter contains energy within, which should have told you all you needed to know.

"In physics, energy is a property of objects which can be transferred to other objects or converted into different forms, but cannot be created or destroyed."

He is that invisible power that permeates the universe, from which all things are.

But when Satan comes pretending to be Jesus, you just go right ahead and be fooled and fall down at his feet and worship him as god, believing Jesus is god.

Givemeareason said:

Personally I am more accepting of the allegorical view.

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The allegorical view makes much less sense than the literal view.