Do Christians condemning gays realize what they are asking the other to give up?

[brightmorningstar]

To Beanieboy,

If this is true, then I have been misled. Will you pray for me?

I will my friend ... and please also pray for me in all I witness.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

To Chalice_Thunder,

So do obviously don’t understand the reasoning. Can you address it specifically and I’ll se where.

He is just using your logic as you have stated it.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Andreusz,

Are you aware that homosexual men can, and often do, feel romantic love for other men?

No, as its sexual. otherwise it would be Homoromantic rather than homosexual. The questuon was in what way is physical/romatic atraction to a sex anything other than sexual? My view is none. All I have had is a number telling there is a difference and once again no attempt to say what it is.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

To Andreusz,
No, as its sexual. otherwise it would be Homoromantic rather than homosexual.

heteroSEXual-opposite sex attraction

There is no such word as Homoromantic or Heteroromantic.

 

[Psudopod]

To Andreusz,

Are you aware that homosexual men can, and often do, feel romantic love for other men?
​

No, as its sexual. otherwise it would be Homoromantic rather than homosexual.

Then men can't feel any love for women either, otherwise it would be hetroromantic rather than hetrosexual.

 

[David Brider]

Homosexual means a sexual attraction not a same sex act.

With you so far.

A sexual attraction is the desire for a same sex act.

Even assuming you mean that homosexual attraction is the desire for a same-sex act (and by implication, that heterosexual attraction is the desire for an opposite-sex act), no, I don't agree with you at all. If you want to use the phrase "sexual attraction" to equate to "a desire for sexual activity" then that's entirely up to you, but I think you'll find that most people would disagree with you. Indeed, I think it's possible that you're confusing "sexual attraction" with libido or sex drive.

I think some of you are prentending you dont see it.

I'm not pretending I don't see it. I genuinely don't see "sexual attraction" in the way that you do.

I can be attracted to someone of the same sex in a spiritual way, but that isn't homosexual.

Sure, and nobody's said otherwise. Again, though, you seem to be assuming that human attraction is some sort of "one size fits all" thing, when I'm sure your own experience would tell you it isn't. For example, I've no doubt that you can be attracted to people of the opposite sex in a spiritual way, but that isn't heterosexual. The attraction you have to your wife, on the other hand, is heterosexual. And it's this, rather than the spiritual attraction you have towards your same-gender friends, that is analogous to homosexuality.

So homsoexual is a sex based attraction for sex.

Most people, heterosexual and homosexual and bisexual, are attracted to people, not to sex.

The idea that it is something more or other is not true and no example has been given.

Examples have very definitely been given (beanieboy and Andreusz have talked quite frankly about their relationships with their partners, and it's quite clear that in neither case is the homosexuality "a sex based attraction for sex"). If you choose to ignore them, that's your affair.

David.

 

[Andreusz]

.
Yes His teaching excludes it. It’s a human concept, and one that is error according to His teaching.

He never explicitly condemns homosexual relationships.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Ophildiaphile,

He is just using your logic as you have stated it.

Well no he isnt that is the very reason I have asked him to address what I specifically said.
Mind you as he thinks the Bible pasages can be interpreted to mean opposite to what they say, is it worth writing anything to him?

 

[Andreusz]

Homosexual means a sexual attraction not a same sex act. A sexual attraction is the desire for asame sex act. I think some of you are prentending you dont see it. I can be attracted to someone of the same sex in a spiritual way, but that isnt homosexual. So homsoexual is a sex based attraction for sex. The idea that it is something more or other is not true and no example has been given.

The modern Greek word for 'homosexual' is 'omofilofilos', which literally means 'loving the love of the same'. I presume, from your argument, that Greek homosexuals, unlike English-speaking ones, do experience roamntic love for each other, am I right?

 

[Andreusz]

To Andreusz,
No, as its sexual. otherwise it would be Homoromantic rather than homosexual. The questuon was in what way is physical/romatic atraction to a sex anything other than sexual? My view is none. All I have had is a number telling there is a difference and once again no attempt to say what it is.

Your first sentence seems to be contradicted by the resto ofyour post, as it implies that you do know there is a difference between romantic and sexual.
For your edification: romantic love is love that is concerned with the other person as a person, not just their looks -- it is admiration for a person's qualities, coupled with a desire to protect them and look after them as much as possible. It is a feeling that that you want to be closer to this person than to anyone else, and so it is different from mere friendship or goodwill. It often (perhaps usually) accompanies sexual love, which is a desire to have sex with the other person, because you find them a turn-on.

I feel both romantic and sexual love for my boyfriend.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To David Brider,
Let me clarify.
My relationship with my wife is spiritually with Christ as the head of the union, friendship, my best friend and sexually, the only person I have sex with.
My relationship with the men in my fellowship, is primarily with Christ as the head of the relationship and as friends.
So what other mysterious ingredient are homosexuals supposed to have that is in addition to these?

 

[OphidiaPhile]

To David Brider,
Let me clarify.
My relationship with my wife is spiritually with Christ as the head of the union, friendship, my best friend and sexually, the only person I have sex with.
My relationship with the men in my fellowship, is primarily with Christ as the head of the relationship and as friends.
So what other mysterious ingredient are homosexuals supposed to have that is in addition to these?

So explain to me how the word homosexual carries anymore of a sexual connotation than the term heterosexual. EVERYONE on earth is Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual, there is no other descriptor.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Andreusz,

For your edification: romantic love is love that is concerned with the other person as a person, not just their looks -- it is admiration for a person's qualities, coupled with a desire to protect them and look after them as much as possible.

Ah now this helps.
I would call that friendship.

It is a feeling that that you want to be closer to this person than to anyone else, and so it is different from mere friendship or goodwill.

Like a best friend.

It often (perhaps usually) accompanies sexual love, which is a desire to have sex with the other person, because you find them a turn-on.

so it is sexual as well. I think thats the point I was trying to make.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

To Andreusz,
Ah now this helps.
I would call that friendship.
Like a best friend.
so it is sexual as well. I think thats the point I was trying to make.

So is heterosexuality, again you are not making any sense.


And I guess I can say that I have never really had romantic love, it is pretty much purely sexual for me.

 

[b&wpac4]

To Andreusz,
Ah now this helps.
I would call that friendship.
Like a best friend.
so it is sexual as well. I think thats the point I was trying to make.

I don't know about you, but I want to be around my girlfriend a whole lot more than I want to be around my best friend.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Ophidiaphile,

So explain to me how the word homosexual carries anymore of a sexual connotation than the term heterosexual.

I dont see that it does. I agree with the dictionary definitions.

EVERYONE on earth is Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual, there is no other descriptor.

yes and no. I dont agree that the definitions are any use, they cut across reality. The dictionary definition of heterosexual and homosexual are having opposite and same sex attraction. As the sexes male and female are deisgned to sexually reproduce together homosexual is therefore dysfunctional in terms of sexual attraction. In addition men wouldnt have sex with men unless they were sexually attracted to it, but nor would paedophiles have sex with children or men with animals unless they were sexually attracted to do so, therefore the terms hetero/homsexual/bisexual etc are confused and dysfunctional concepts.

 

[David Brider]

My relationship with my wife is spiritually with Christ as the head of the union, friendship, my best friend and sexually, the only person I have sex with.
My relationship with the men in my fellowship, is primarily with Christ as the head of the relationship and as friends.
So what other mysterious ingredient are homosexuals supposed to have that is in addition to these?

There is no "mysterious ingredient". Imagine two men or two women in a relationship similar to that which you have with you wife. Obviously, non-Christians wouldn't have the whole "Christ as the head of the union" bit, but that aside, there in a nutshell is what many (ideally most) same-gender couples' relationships are like - like yours with your wife, or mine with my girlfriend.

David.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

To Ophidiaphile,
I dont see that it does. I agree with the dictionary definitions. yes and no. I dont agree that the definitions are any use, they cut across reality. The dictionary definition of heterosexual and homosexual are having opposite and same sex attraction. As the sexes male and female are deisgned to sexually reproduce together homosexual is therefore dysfunctional in terms of sexual attraction. In addition men wouldnt have sex with men unless they were sexually attracted to it, but nor would paedophiles have sex with children or men with animals unless they were sexually attracted to do so, therefore the terms hetero/homsexual/bisexual etc are confused and dysfunctional concepts.

I have been trying to get you to understand that there is no more of a sexual component to homosexuality than to heterosexuality. And there is no design of the genders, and sex is more about societal bonding than it is procreation which is merely a byproduct of some aspects of sexual activity.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Ohpidiaphile,

So is heterosexuality, again you are not making any sense.

No hetrosexuality is your dysfunctional concept, So no you probably wont be able to understand what I am saying using your dysfunctional concept.
I see the relationship with my wife threefold, in Christ, a best firendship and a sexual union. The only bit that could be heterosexual is the sexual bit.

 

[Andreusz]

I don't know about you, but I want to be around my girlfriend a whole lot more than I want to be around my best friend.

I love my best friend very much, but I love my boyfriend a whole lot more.