Do Christians condemning gays realize what they are asking the other to give up?

[Beanieboy]

This morning, as I was getting ready, after hearing yet another Christian harp on my need to repent, (even in red, Just like Jesus!), I wonder if any of these supposed Christians really understand what they are asking of gay people.

They seem to think it is just a turning away from lots of hot, promiscuous sex, but I have a partner of 4 years. We love each other very much. We bought a house together, we care for each other, laugh with each other, encourage each other, and he really adds a lot to my life.

The person is asking me to tell my partner, "Some Christians seem to think that I should uphold Leviticus, a book that they rarely touch, except for the two male-male verses. So, it's been fun. See you around..." and then go off and live a life of celibacy.

In other words, you want to break up our home.

And what do you, yourself, sacrifice? Nothing? Have a home, a family, a dog, and some kids?

 

[Gilyon]

They can say whatever they want, and interpret things however they want. But what matters is what YOU know to be true. When I think of the bible, I have to look at it with my own experiences in mind, and remember that the bible was written by men, at a specific point in time. The closest I ever felt to something divine was when I was with my ex-boyfriend, and that feeling is what makes me want to seek God. So they can say whatever they want, but for me God either exists and has made himself known to me through an act they say is sinful, or he doesn't exist at all.

 

[b&wpac4]

The whole thing is kind of silly, when you really think about it. Using Christian theology, everybody is a sinner, and I'm willing to bet that most people are repeat sinners who continue to do the same activity over and over again. Remember there is a passing in the New Testament that basically says you aren't supposed to worry about the sin of your neighbor. I think some people just feel the need to show how much better they are than other people, and completely miss the point that they don't deserve anymore than anybody else.

They just want to lord over you, to feel superior. There is most likely a deep rooted reason for this, and my guess would be that they don't feel comfortable in what they do in life so they must attack others to direct their shame elsewhere. I mean, have you ever noticed that the people who are first to jump up and tell everybody else how wrong they are usually have the most skeletons in the closet? This is not a coincidence.

 

[talitha]

Homosexuals are not the only ones who need to repent! but you are one who does need to repent, if you are to be living in right relationship with God. There is no getting around the scriptures that describe homosexuality as sin, a work of the flesh, unnatural, and an abomination. You are free to live this lifestyle, but you cannot continue in it and expect God to smile at it. Like Jesus said, he personally does not judge anyone - it's the Word of God that judges people. I know that some Christians say these things in hateful even defensive-sounding ways, and that is needless. Just stating the truth as I'm doing here is hard enough to face, and there is no point in being hateful about it.

No, I don't necessarily think of "hot promiscuous sex." When I was in college I had friends who were in homosexual relationships and other friends who were promiscuous/gay. I know there is a difference, but it's kind of like the difference between doing drug cocktails at a rave and sitting at home alone smoking a joint "not hurting anyone". It's still drugs. It's still homosexuality, just a different expression of it.

As for what we sacrifice, there are many works of the flesh which we are all called by Christ to crucify, for example - immorality, impurity, sensuality,idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing.... (this list is from Galatians 5). Not to mention gossip, manipulation, rebellion of all kinds.....

I struggle with several of those, and I do not say that they are less wrong or less harmful spiritually than homosexuality. But I don't defend them either. I don't say, well, God, you have to accept that I'm born a gossip - you made me that way, didn't you? Phooey on all the people that condemn gossiping - I'm proud of it, it enriches my life and makes me feel good about myself! That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

God bless you in your search for a deeper walk with Him.....
tal

 

[KCKID]

Homosexuals are not the only ones who need to repent! but you are one who does need to repent, if you are to be living in right relationship with God. There is no getting around the scriptures that describe homosexuality as sin, a work of the flesh, unnatural, and an abomination. You are free to live this lifestyle, but you cannot continue in it and expect God to smile at it. Like Jesus said, he personally does not judge anyone - it's the Word of God that judges people. I know that some Christians say these things in hateful even defensive-sounding ways, and that is needless. Just stating the truth as I'm doing here is hard enough to face, and there is no point in being hateful about it.

No, I don't necessarily think of "hot promiscuous sex." When I was in college I had friends who were in homosexual relationships and other friends who were promiscuous/gay. I know there is a difference, but it's kind of like the difference between doing drug cocktails at a rave and sitting at home alone smoking a joint "not hurting anyone". It's still drugs. It's still homosexuality, just a different expression of it.

As for what we sacrifice, there are many works of the flesh which we are all called by Christ to crucify, for example - immorality, impurity, sensuality,idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing.... (this list is from Galatians 5). Not to mention gossip, manipulation, rebellion of all kinds.....

I struggle with several of those, and I do not say that they are less wrong or less harmful spiritually than homosexuality. But I don't defend them either. I don't say, well, God, you have to accept that I'm born a gossip - you made me that way, didn't you? Phooey on all the people that condemn gossiping - I'm proud of it, it enriches my life and makes me feel good about myself! That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

God bless you in your search for a deeper walk with Him.....
tal

Nice post but, again, a misinformed one. NOWHERE in the Bible is homosexuality, per se, referred to as an abomination. I really do wish that folks would get this right once and for all. Sexual orientation - be it hetero or homo - is not referenced at all in the scriptures. Two same-gender individuals who are attracted to one another - both sexually and otherwise - and choose to connect in a meaningful, committed manner are not referenced in the scriptures either.

Is there ANY chance that we can all come together on this issue once and for all? Honestly, we'll all become better, more effective Christians if we can.

 

[talitha]

We can all come together on this issue if we agree once and for all that God created women for men, and men for women.

Did you really just pick out the word "abomination" and not read the rest of my post?

 

[Andreusz]

KCKID has stated that you have misrepresented what the scriptures say. I think he is correct in this. You are bearing false witness. But that doesn't bother Christians, does it?

 

[talitha]

Bearing false witness is a horrible accusation, and I don't believe I'm guilty of it.

 

[KCKID]

We can all come together on this issue if we agree once and for all that God created women for men, and men for women.

Untrue. According to the Bible God created Adam and Eve. After that the human race appears to have gone ahead without any assistance from God. I doubt that my father had even heard of God when he procreated with my mother and produced me and my siblings. We are NOT programmed robots - thank God! - and human beings have all by themselves produced many other diverse human beings throughout the history of the world. Again, I say, thank God! One is attracted to whom one is attracted. It has nothing to do with God. Nor you. You cannot dictate to someone who they MUST be attracted to just because you believe that this is what God wants. You want to know the truth? NO ONE knows what God wants other than God Himself.

Did you really just pick out the word "abomination" and not read the rest of my post?

Yes, I did read the rest of your post. That's why I said it was nice but misinformed. Please understand that I've heard all the same arguments pertaining to this issue many times.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Christians dont condemn gays, some falsely accuse Christians of condemning gays. The Bible as the testimony of God condemns same sex partnership, Christians believe that, and gays dont it would appear.

I suggest we discuss the word of God that Christians believe rather than Christians, Satan is the accuser of breatren Rev 12.

 

[No Swansong]

KCKID has stated that you have misrepresented what the scriptures say. I think he is correct in this. You are bearing false witness. But that doesn't bother Christians, does it?

I don't mean to enter the discussion as to whether homosexual acts are sinful or not but be fair here, for her to be bearing false witness she would have to know that she is misrepresenting Scripture. It seems pretty clear to me that she truly believes her interpretation and thus cannot be bearing false witness.

 

[talitha]

Yes I understand you've heard these things many times. I'm sorry you don't believe.....

 

[FlamingFemme]

As for what we sacrifice, there are many works of the flesh which we are all called by Christ to crucify, for example - immorality, impurity, sensuality,idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing.... (this list is from Galatians 5). Not to mention gossip, manipulation, rebellion of all kinds.....

I struggle with several of those, and I do not say that they are less wrong or less harmful spiritually than homosexuality. But I don't defend them either. I don't say, well, God, you have to accept that I'm born a gossip - you made me that way, didn't you? Phooey on all the people that condemn gossiping - I'm proud of it, it enriches my life and makes me feel good about myself! That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

God bless you in your search for a deeper walk with Him.....
tal

This post, while said in a way that was not very offensive, proves that you do not understand what Christians are asking gay people to give up. Giving up the love of my life and breaking up my family is NOT the same as giving up gossiping. Telling gay people that they can never have a life partner, that they can never commit their lives to someone they love, is NOT the same as saying you need to give up gossip, envy, jealousy, etc.
I wish there was a way to make anti-gay Christians realize that demanding us to live lives of celibacy - while they get to get married, have children, and have someone to spend the rest of their lives with - is heartless and cruel.

 

[brightmorningstar]

You see for example as Christians we dont condemn adulterers, paedophiles or prostitues, we do see however see that adultery, paedophilia and prostitution is wrong.
It would be interesting if any of you who support same sex partnerships, think adultery, paedophilia or prostitution are wrong and would be prepared to tell any adulterers, paedophiles and prostitutes or be happy for society to accept what they do.
If you did tell them and they accused you of hating and discriminating against them, how would you feel?

 

[PhilosophicalBluster]

paedophilia

2 consenting adults =/= adult and non-consenting child

 

[No Swansong]

You see for example as Christians we dont condemn adulterers, paedophiles or prostitues, we do see however see that adultery, paedophilia and prostitution is wrong.
It would be interesting if any of you who support same sex partnerships, think adultery, paedophilia or prostitution are wrong and would be prepared to tell any adulterers, paedophiles and prostitutes or be happy for society to accept what they do.
If you did tell them and they accused you of hating and discriminating against them, how would you feel?

When are you going to realize that the government is not the Church? There is no good reason for a secular government to deny homosexuals the right to marry.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To PhilosophicalBuster,
According to your view perhaps but not according to ours, he who sins sexully sins against their own body (1 Cor 6) we would see all these as sin. ie Matt 19, 1 Cor 6.

If you have a different answer for each please do so.

 

[brightmorningstar]

No Swansong,

When are you going to realize that the government is not the Church? There is no good reason for a secular government to deny homosexuals the right to marry.

when are you going to answer the question?

 

[Markus6]

No, I don't think they do at all.

The vast majority of Christians, like the rest of the culture, are obsessed with trying to find that special someone. The apostle Paul's advocacy of singleness makes no sense to them. They are unhappy with being single and to ask them to give up the hope of finding happiness with that special someone and embrace their life as a single is insane to them. And yet they ask homosexuals to do the same without realising what they are asking, empathising or offering any support.

 

[KCKID]

Christians dont condemn gays, some falsely accuse Christians of condemning gays. The Bible as the testimony of God condemns same sex partnership, Christians believe that, and gays dont it would appear.

Baloney. Most Christians condemn 'gays' simply because they don't understand what being 'gay' really means. People are naturally 'afraid' of anyone or anything that is 'not the norm'. The word of God has nothing to do with how people - Christian or not - really feel about the issue. If Christians started to tell the truth about why they don't like 'gays' then at least I'd give them credit for honesty. Then I'd probably call them homophobes which IS the likely definition of their response to homosexuality. They (most) only use the Bible as a crutch for their own frailties.

I suggest we discuss the word of God that Christians believe rather than Christians, Satan is the accuser of breatren Rev 12.

Oh please, stop quoting the book. And leave Satan out of it. Accuser of the brethren ...?

As for YOUR condemnation of 'gays' ...you're referring to fellow human beings whose only 'wrong' seems to be that they are sexually attracted to someone else of the same gender. Get over it, bms. Really! Furthermore, you don't know what the word of God is any more than I do so please don't presume to speak for God.