Do Christians believe that Christianity is the only true religion?

[cloudyday2]

I voted "1", but an argument can be made for a vote of "2". Many Christians see Judaism to be as true as Christianity. They merely think Jews made a mistake in rejecting Jesus as their Messiah. Some Christians even believe that Christians should practice Judaism.

The vote results are mostly "1", but I think if the poll had been worded differently it might have had more "2".

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I voted "1", but an argument can be made for a vote of "2". Many Christians see Judaism to be as true as Christianity. They merely think Jews made a mistake in rejecting Jesus as their Messiah. Some Christians even believe that Christians should practice Judaism.

The vote results are mostly "1", but I think if the poll had been worded differently it might have had more "2".

Interesting! I am certainly aware that many Christians see Judaism as an important and even integral element of Christianity. But how many Christians are there who would say "Judaism is just as valid as Christianity; they are both equally correct religions"?

Can I ask, how would you rephrase the survey?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Sounds like you don't know enough to be able to discuss it. And maybe no Christians do.

Hilarious.

The point was, you dont know enough to discuss it. You need to know what hell entails, before you start going on about how unfair it is. If you cant tell us exactly what will happen there, you're not qualified to complain about it.

But leave it to the Atheist to attempt to place the blame on others, when it's so obvious where the blame belongs.

 

[coffee4u]

This is untrue. I want to be in heaven, I just need good evidence that it exists.

I thought atheists didn't believe that God or heaven or hell even existed so how can you want to go to a place you don't believe exists?

If you merely want evidence -and really the only evidence that I can even think of would be if Jesus came to you like he did to Saul on the road to Damascus. He came as a bright light and spoke to him, would that be evidence enough? You can't order something like that like a drive through McDonald's.

Why is this? It is God's system that does this.

If you were God and created the world and humans to be your friends how would you go about that?
I can see two options with the humans. You could make them so they all loved you and had no other thought or option but to love and obey you, or you make them with free will, meaning they can choose to love or reject you. God did the second.
Adam sinned and this caused the separation. It had too. God could not have Adam live forever after he chose to go his own way because he was separated from him and the whole point of creating him was to have a creation made in his image with which he could have a relationship with. God needed some way to bring him back, something to bridge the gap. Jesus is the bridge between man and God the father.
If every person after Adam had been given Adam's chance then how would that work? God said what he did caused not only human corruption but corruption to the world. Some living forever and some not? I can't see that working. Who would want to live forever on a corrupted world? God's plan is to remake it with those who have chosen him.

God creates the problem under His system and then provides His cure. Love and follow me or else I will torture you at worst or have nothing to do with you at best.

Why should I choose heaven?

That is the way you choose to view it. But if you don't believe in any of it why care?
If God was truly as horrible as that then he could have simply stopped the world a long time ago and crushed all of us.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Hilarious.

The point was, you dont know enough to discuss it. You need to know what hell entails, before you start going on about how unfair it is. If you cant tell us exactly what will happen there, you're not qualified to complain about it.

But leave it to the Atheist to attempt to place the blame on others, when it's so obvious where the blame belongs.

No need to get personal.

 

[coffee4u]

Interesting! I am certainly aware that many Christians see Judaism as an important and even integral element of Christianity. But how many Christians are there who would say "Judaism is just as valid as Christianity; they are both equally correct religions"?

Can I ask, how would you rephrase the survey?

It isn't about being correct or knowledge it is about Jesus. A person could be wrong about nearly everything relating to doctrine but so long as they are in Jesus they still have their salvation.

The nation of Israel is very important and are still Gods people. Christianity is often seen as spiritual Israel. Israel is pictured as the root and we are branches that have been grafted in.
Romans 11:18
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.

God has a plan to bring the nation of Israel back. There are numerous scriptures about that.
Jeremiah 31
31 The Lord said:

Israel, I promise
that someday all your tribes
will again be my people,
and I will be your God.

Romans 11:25
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
At that point the Jewish nation will turn and recognize Jesus. Zechariah talks about a third.

If I had made that poll I would have probably asked "Is Jesus the only way to God?"

 

[Aussie Pete]

Speaking as someone who "rejected Christ", I have to say...
Wait. Hang on a moment. Who told you I rejected Christ? That's a really loaded and unfair way to describe it. I've never even met Christ. I seriously, honestly, cross-my-heart do not even believe God or His Son exist.
So if you describe a person who honestly and sincerely doesn't believe in God as "rejecting" Him, you are playing with words in an unfair way. That is NOT what the word "reject" means. It's a lawyerly trick. It's practically entrapment.

Anyway. Back on track.
As someone who "rejected" Christ, let me tell you: I would want to be in Heaven. If Heaven is, as you say, a wonderful place, and especially if Hell is the only alternative - of course I want to to be in Heaven!
It makes you really wonder - how stupid do Christians think we are? Do they really imagine we see and know this choice and choose to deny it?

Of course not. The truth is, Christians must assume it is our fault. They must say nonsense like "You wouldn't like it in Heaven," or "You chose to go to hell," because if there really is a God, then people who honestly and sincerely disbelieve in Him do not deserve to be punished.
But, as Christians, you cannot admit this. Hence, the tortured "stop hitting yourself!" logic of the playground.


Like those forty-two kids?
Like drowning the whole world?
Like the pillar of salt?
Like them, you mean?


So simple, is it?
Okay. I choose to go to heaven, if it exists.
What's that? The choice doesn't count unless I actually become a Christian? Can't I just wait until I die and have proof that Heaven, Hell and God actually exist, and then choose between them? No? It's too late after you're dead?

What a surprise.

God has placed before your very eyes everything you need in order to believe. You have met Christ if you have met a born again Christian. You've certainly heard from Him because you are on this forum. We may not speak as clearly as we should, we may not have all the answers to all the questions, but there are some on this forum who know Jesus, who is a real, living Person.

You might like to be the President of the USA. Nice work if you can get it. However, there are certain qualifications. I could not be because I'm not a US citizen. If you want to be in heaven in the next life, you need to qualify in this life. There are two conditions. First, you need to admit that you are a sinner. Next, you need to accept God's way of forgiveness.

The issue is that you are spiritually dead now - everyone is born that way. So God's intent is to make you spiritually alive. That is extremely simple. Everything necessary has already been done. All you have to do is accept.

No, you do not get a second chance. The Bible is clear on that. We all have an appointment with death and then the judgement. God has one initial judgement, those who are alive spiritually and those who are not. Would you like to have a dead person next to you in your home? Likely not. God likewise is not going to accept the dead into His home.

If you are serious about wanting to know if there really is a God, then do yourself a favour. Ask God to reveal Himself to you. Be as honest as you can. You can say that you do not believe. God knows that anyway.

I don't recall a time when I did not believe that God was real. I wanted nothing to do with God, who I viewed something like a cosmic bully looking for people to beat up. My idea was to make myself invisible to God and hopefully He would leave me alone. When I was 12, I had a family situation that troubled me greatly. I did something I'd never done before - I prayed. The situation was resolved the same day. I felt like an idiot, I tried to rationalise it as coincidence, but I knew better really. It did not cause me to become a Christian. That came about 9 years later. But I've never forgotten that time. God is real. He will answer you.

 

[Aussie Pete]

This is untrue. I want to be in heaven, I just need good evidence that it exists.

Why is this? It is God's system that does this.

God creates the problem under His system and then provides His cure. Love and follow me or else I will torture you at worst or have nothing to do with you at best.

Why should I choose heaven?

You want to be in heaven but you don't know why. I am confused. God did not create the problem. He has provided the solution. You choose to reject the testimony of His people here on this forum and the evidence before your eyes in creation. Millions of people believe, but not you. OK, but there are consequences to your choice. That's all.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

If I had made that poll I would have probably asked "Is Jesus the only way to God?"

Thank you, that was very interesting. Since I'm pretty sure no Jewish person would agree with the statement that Jesus is the only way to God, I think I'm happy with the poll I made.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I thought atheists didn't believe that God or heaven or hell even existed so how can you want to go to a place you don't believe exists?

Really? If heaven and hell exist I want to go to heaven not hell.

If you merely want evidence -and really the only evidence that I can even think of would be if Jesus came to you like he did to Saul on the road to Damascus. He came as a bright light and spoke to him, would that be evidence enough? You can't order something like that like a drive through McDonald's.

Why not? Does God not want me to go to heaven? If so, He has the power to convince me He exists.

If you were God and created the world and humans to be your friends how would you go about that?
I can see two options with the humans. You could make them so they all loved you and had no other thought or option but to love and obey you, or you make them with free will, meaning they can choose to love or reject you. God did the second.
Adam sinned and this caused the separation. It had too. God could not have Adam live forever after he chose to go his own way because he was separated from him and the whole point of creating him was to have a creation made in his image with which he could have a relationship with. God needed some way to bring him back, something to bridge the gap. Jesus is the bridge between man and God the father.
If every person after Adam had been given Adam's chance then how would that work? God said what he did caused not only human corruption but corruption to the world. Some living forever and some not? I can't see that working. Who would want to live forever on a corrupted world? God's plan is to remake it with those who have chosen him.

I would provide every person with sufficient evidence so they knew that I existed and what the consequences of decisions they make in this life are. Then they would have the free will to make an informed decision. It is really not that hard.

That is the way you choose to view it. But if you don't believe in any of it why care?
If God was truly as horrible as that then he could have simply stopped the world a long time ago and crushed all of us.

I care because religion affects my life and society negatively. I care because if it is true I want to know it is true so I can make good informed decisions about my life.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

You want to be in heaven but you don't know why. I am confused.

If my choices are heaven or hell, from what I know about each, I want to go to heaven.

God did not create the problem. He has provided the solution.

God set up the system. Is God not smart enough to come up with a better way?

You choose to reject the testimony of His people here on this forum and the evidence before your eyes in creation. Millions of people believe, but not you. OK, but there are consequences to your choice. That's all.

More threats. Ok. I am not rejecting anything. If I believed it I could reject it if I wanted to. I simply don't believe it is true, so I am not rejecting it. You need to believe something is true before you can reject it.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'd say that if you're comparing Christianity to a family, with God as the father, then a good analogy for help would be the father locking his children up in a cellar to be beaten would be a pretty good analogy. Would you do it any differently? Let us not forget, it was God who created hell, and who created and maintains the process by which people go there.

P.S. people who go to hell are, quite frankly, not Gods children.

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!" John 8:44-45

Just saying...

 

[cloudyday2]

Interesting! I am certainly aware that many Christians see Judaism as an important and even integral element of Christianity. But how many Christians are there who would say "Judaism is just as valid as Christianity; they are both equally correct religions"?

Can I ask, how would you rephrase the survey?

Your phrasing for the second option is:
"No, Christians believe that there are 2 equally correct religions, Judaism and Christianity."

I would replace that with several more nuanced choices:
"No, Christians believe that Judaism is correct for Jews except that they should accept Jesus as their Messiah"
"No, Christians believe that Judaism was the one correct religion until Jesus fulfilled its promises"
"No, Christians believe that Christianity should include Jewish practices even for Gentile members"

There are probably other options too. The correctness of Judaism is tricky, because Jesus was a Jew, but Jesus also founded Christianity. A Christian cannot label Judaism "incorrect" as casually as they might label Buddhism "incorrect".

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I thought atheists didn't believe that God or heaven or hell even existed so how can you want to go to a place you don't believe exists?

If it does exist, and if hell does exist, I would like to go to heaven.

If you merely want evidence

"Merely"? As if evidence were such a little thing to be concerned with? Yes, I do think it would be nice to have evidence before I accept the quite remarkable claims made by Christians.

If you merely want evidence -and really the only evidence that I can even think of would be if Jesus came to you like he did to Saul on the road to Damascus. He came as a bright light and spoke to him, would that be evidence enough? You can't order something like that like a drive through McDonald's.

Sure that would be enough evidence for me. You seem to be implying it's somehow my fault if Christians don't have enough evidence to support their case.

If you were God and created the world and humans to be your friends how would you go about that?

Answering that question honestly would probably mean breaking the forum rules.

I can see two options with the humans. You could make them so they all loved you and had no other thought or option but to love and obey you, or you make them with free will, meaning they can choose to love or reject you. God did the second.

Exactly what is wrong with the first option? God has apparently done it two times, once with the angels and once with the humans who go to heaven. Or are you suggesting that there is the possibility that sin might one day enter heaven?
If you do answer this, please think carefully. It's easy to resort to ad hoc rationalisations.

Adam sinned and this caused the separation. It had too. God could not have Adam live forever after he chose to go his own way because he was separated from him and the whole point of creating him was to have a creation made in his image with which he could have a relationship with. God needed some way to bring him back, something to bridge the gap. Jesus is the bridge between man and God the father.

You make an omnipotent and omniscient God seem strangely powerless.

If every person after Adam had been given Adam's chance then how would that work?

Fairly?

God said what he did caused not only human corruption but corruption to the world. Some living forever and some not? I can't see that working. Who would want to live forever on a corrupted world? God's plan is to remake it with those who have chosen him.

Taking a while, isn't it?

That is the way you choose to view it. But if you don't believe in any of it why care?

Don't you know why I, an atheist, am on the Apologetics Forum?

If God was truly as horrible as that then he could have simply stopped the world a long time ago and crushed all of us.

The Bible will give you plenty of stories about how God did exactly that. Most memorably with a flood, but there are plenty of other instances of God deciding to deal with problems by simply squashing people.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

P.S. people who go to hell are, quite frankly, not Gods children.

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!" John 8:44-45

Just saying...

If we're still using a family led by a father as an analogy for God and Christianity, this is getting quite disturbing. The father is now kicking his children down into the cellar and shouting, "You were never my kids anyway!" Quite an anger management problem in this family!

 

[coffee4u]

Really? If heaven and hell exist I want to go to heaven not hell.

Well sure, only I thought being an atheist meant you were very sure that God, heaven and hell were made up. If you think there is a possibility doesn't that make you an agnostic? That is how is use to be anyway.

Why not? Does God not want me to go to heaven? If so, He has the power to convince me He exists.

Luke 4:12
Jesus answered, "It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

I would provide every person with sufficient evidence so they knew that I existed and what the consequences of decisions they make in this life are. Then they would have the free will to make an informed decision. It is really not that hard.

The reason it isn't easy is because of the separation. It was easy like that when God first created Adam and Eve, but after they sinned it was like a valley formed between man and God. God is spirit and it is our spirit that communes with him. If your spirit is closed off then it isn't even going to notice what God is doing.

At times God did show himself more physically to the Israelite's. he parted the sea, brought water from rocks and did other miracles for them and then a short time later they are grumbling and complaining and making idols.
They did it again and again turning away from God, so even having a miracle done in front of them was still not enough for lasting faith.
I don't think people have changed, human nature is still the same. God knows people would want a regularly scheduled song and dance show.

I care because religion affects my life and society negatively. I care because if it is true I want to know it is true so I can make good informed decisions about my life.

The main commands of Jesus is to love God and love our neighbour as ourselves, if everyone followed that there would be no negative impact. Negative impact comes because people add to it. My best suggestion would be to read the Bible and pray and honestly seek God. I started off as an agnostic, God spoke to me (my soul and spirit not verbally) through the scriptures.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Your phrasing for the second option is:
"No, Christians believe that there are 2 equally correct religions, Judaism and Christianity."

I would replace that with several more nuanced choices:
"No, Christians believe that Judaism is correct for Jews except that they should accept Jesus as their Messiah"
"No, Christians believe that Judaism was the one correct religion until Jesus fulfilled its promises"
"No, Christians believe that Christianity should include Jewish practices even for Gentile members"

There are probably other options too. The correctness of Judaism is tricky, because Jesus was a Jew, but Jesus also founded Christianity. A Christian cannot label Judaism "incorrect" as casually as they might label Buddhism "incorrect".

Fair enough! I don't disagree with those suggestions. But I didn't want the poll to be too long. Looking at your three suggestions I agree that they are more nuanced, but I think the poll I gave is in the same spirit as them, and does the job well enough.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If we're still using a family led by a father as an analogy for God and Christianity, this is getting quite disturbing. The father is now kicking his children down into the cellar and shouting, "You were never my kids anyway!" Quite an anger management problem in this family!

No.... the analogy goes more like this:

You have a white, racist, hillbilly, redneck (and more bad things) for a neighbor. You really dont like him, but hes got some kids... these kids of course are evil little bullies, but you can't hardly hold it against them as they just weren't raised right, seeing what kind of man their dad is...

So your very kind to them, offer to give them the same kinds of things you gave to your own beloved child... but seeing as how they are truly their father's children, they beat up and kill your own son, go after all your son's friends in like manner, and spit in your face while telling you to keep all those nice things you offered them because they hate you simply for being you and want nothing to do with you...

Even still, being the kindhearted soul you are, you continue to offer them and even their grandchildren a better way of life for a good long while after until finally, you give up, and offer them up for the judgement, and the punishment they deserve for all their various crimes... because regardless, your patience only goes so far, and in the end your a just man.

 

[coffee4u]

If it does exist, and if hell does exist, I would like to go to heaven.

"Merely"? As if evidence were such a little thing to be concerned with? Yes, I do think it would be nice to have evidence before I accept the quite remarkable claims made by Christians.

Sure that would be enough evidence for me. You seem to be implying it's somehow my fault if Christians don't have enough evidence to support their case.

You might want to read my reply above. I think this covers this part.

Answering that question honestly would probably mean breaking the forum rules.

I don't see anything wrong in hypotheticals or what ifs.
Christians don't have all the answers, there is a lot that we don't know like a jig-saw puzzle with missing pieces, but we trust that God has all the pieces and has reasons that we can't yet see.

Exactly what is wrong with the first option?

You would rather not have free will? I think most people rather enjoy their free will.

God has apparently done it two times, once with the angels and once with the humans who go to heaven.

Not sure what you mean here. The angels were created with free will too, that is why 1/3 of them fell to became whats known as demons.
Those who go to heaven have chosen God. Heaven is only a temporary place. The ultimate plan is a new heavens and new world.

Or are you suggesting that there is the possibility that sin might one day enter heaven?
If you do answer this, please think carefully. It's easy to resort to ad hoc rationalisations.

To dwell in heaven no, but certainly God is going to judge people for the sins they committed.

You make an omnipotent and omniscient God seem strangely powerless.

I certainly don't think so. My position is I trust God to know the best way even if I may not understand it. It is us who doesn't understand, not God who is failing to deliver.
I think the mistake is trying to make God into what we think a God should be rather than finding out who he actually is.

Fairly?

A mix of immortals and mortals in a fallen corrupted world? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. If you are immortal you wouldn't want to face infinity with diseases and other maladies. That is whole point of the new earth to come. It will be immortal humans with a perfect world.

Taking a while, isn't it?

Not for God it isn't.
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Don't you know why I, an atheist, am on the Apologetics Forum?

I assume different people have different reasons. But your precise reasons for being here, no.

The Bible will give you plenty of stories about how God did exactly that. Most memorably with a flood, but there are plenty of other instances of God deciding to deal with problems by simply squashing people.

That is called judgment.
God didn't just come out of nowhere and 'squish people' Noah preached for over a hundred years that the flood was coming.
Genesis 6:3
And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
Some people think that is the age of mankind, but no it was the countdown to the flood and Noah preached that whole time he didn't just build the ark.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

No.... the analogy goes more like this:

You have a white, racist, hillbilly, redneck (and more bad things) for a neighbor. You really dont like him, but hes got some kids... these kids of course are evil little bullies, but you can't hardly hold it against them as they just weren't raised right, seeing what kind of man their dad is...

So your very kind to them, offer to give them the same kinds of things you gave to your own beloved child... but seeing as how they are truly their father's children, they beat up and kill your own son, go after all your son's friends in like manner, and spit in your face while telling you to keep all those nice things you offered them because they hate you simply for being you and want nothing to do with you...

Even still, being the kindhearted soul you are, you continue to offer them and even their grandchildren a better way of life for a good long while after until finally, you give up, and offer them up for the judgement, and the punishment they deserve for all their various crimes... because regardless, your patience only goes so far, and in the end your a just man.

That sounds like a terrible father.

Think about it. He exposed his own kids to that kind of abuse from other children for years and years? He didn't do anything to protect them?
He let the "evil" kids (and most badly behaved children are just ones that haven't ever learned how to behave well, as any teacher will tell you) continue with their bad behaviour without putting a stop to it?
In the end, you can hardly blame them - what he was teaching them, by letting them continue with their inappropriate behaviour without consequence was that it was acceptable (again, as any teacher will tell you).

Here's what a good parent, guardian or teacher does:
1. Explain the rules and explain the reasons for those rules.
2. Enforce consequences and hold children accountable.
3. Protect the innocent, and help those who are misbehaving to get better.

By your own admission, the father here just let them do whatever they wanted, thus teaching them that it was acceptable. He then finally had an adult temper tantrum and punished them for the mistakes that he allowed to happen for so long.

This father isn't sounding like a good, kind man. He's sounding like a negligent, careless one, who causes children to suffer for his mistakes.

Would you like your own children to go to a school where the headmaster waited until the school bullies had terrorised the entire school and killed the star pupil, then had them expelled and sent to prison? Is that your idea of a kind, wise and caring guardian figure?