Do Christians actually believe in God?

AV1611VET

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Why is there an inconsistency between what Christians say they believe and the ways in which they act.
You expect us to stop entering into long-term contracts if we believe Jesus may return before the sun sets?
 
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AV1611VET

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The South was indeed pro slavery, and also pro God. And they made a very good argument as to why the Bible was on their side.

I won't say any more in this thread. As you pointed out, we're getting off topic. Would you like to start a thread so we can discuss the issue?
Absolutely!

But if you're going to use the word "slavery," I'll set you straight.

Just saying.
 
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Okay, ready. I hope you won't mind if I start with a rather lengthy post. But I think the arguments I quote sum up everything is like to say very clearly; so I thought it would be a good way to begin.
See you over there!
Does the Bible condone slavery?
 
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FireDragon76

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Some of the more overt instances with my God.

I've seen God working in my life for many years. One of my earliest such memories was when I was around 6 or 7, the late 70's. Mom and I were living on our own, but she had been dating a guy who would later become my stepfather. She was in the bathroom taking a bath and I was entertaining myself with my toys. Suddenly, she flew out of the bathroom, threw on clothes and ran out the door, leaving me there alone, a bit surprised, and more than a little confused. Found out later that she had a vision that the boyfriend was in trouble and that she needed to get him right away. In short, he was a city over running from people trying to kill him. My mother had no clue he was there at the time and showed up in the alley where he was hiding, saving his life. He later also became a believer.

When I was around 12 or 13, I had a serious issue with scoliosis. I had even seen the doctor a few times because they planned to put some rod down my back to correct it. Out of the blue, my pastor had a visiting 'faith healer' come in and talk and asked if anyone wanted prayer. I asked for prayer for both my back and an issue with my eyes. The scoliosis healed immediately. my spine cracked and straightened immediately, in front of well over a hundred people, but the eye issue remained. Had no clue why, but later that same issue stopped me from signing up for the job in the Army, diverting me to another job, where I met my wife of now over 20 years.

More recently, in 2019, I found myself having to pay around $3,700 in taxes. I had the money, but it was really going to hurt. In the same timeframe, I received a letter from the state of Iowa, letting me know I had unclaimed money. I went to their website and found it was a hefty sum (for me). I then checked to see if my wife had any money unclaimed as well. She did. Between the two of us, the total we received was within a few dollars of my tax bill.

My oldest son, an atheist like you, moved out of our house almost 10 years ago, when he was around 16, an angry teen and new father. He swore for years that he wouldn't have anything to do with us or God at any point, ever. He's spent years drinking himself into oblivion and rage quitting anger management sessions. Lately, I've been praying that God do somethign in his life, there were specifics but I'm not going into that at the moment. Around 12 days ago, he reached out for us for help, completely out of the blue. I drive back to Iowa from Texas last weekend and picked him up. As we speak, he's sitting in a faith-based rehab center.

Those were some of the more overt instances, but in my life the Lord has provided for me in many ways. Numerous times in my life, I'd suddenly come into a few extra hundred or thousand dollars, only to be followed up shortly with some unexpected expense of a similar amount. Other times, an expense would come up where I saw no way in the budget to pay, but I'd make it through somehow and end up on the other side wondering how that happened. And this has become such a common occurance, that now when I get 'extra' money, I hang onto it and wonder what expense is heading my way.

So yea, I do believe in God and I do talk to Him and He does answer prayers. This is a relationship we have and He is in charge. He's not a genie, He's a Father. Sometimes He tells us no or provides for us in ways we don't expect. He does allow trials and troubles in our lives and has never promised us wealth or health in this life.

How does a paranormal intuition prove the veracity of Christianity/God?

I guess this is one of those areas I find the least interesting aspect of apologetics, either pro or con. Paranormal experiences are so open to interpretation that it's difficult to conclude anything from them.
 
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SeventyOne

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How does a paranormal intuition prove the veracity of Christianity/God?

I guess this is one of those areas I find the least interesting aspect of apologetics, either pro or con. Paranormal experiences are so open to interpretation that it's difficult to conclude anything from them.

Confusion only comes when the source is rejected. I can't make you or any others believe anything, but my response was given because of particular queries by the OP. Like I told him, this is a God who wants to be found and He answers the prayers of those who belong to Him. If you want Him to reveal Himself to you personally, ask Him to do so. If not, believe anything you want to believe about any other supposed source.
 
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FireDragon76

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Confusion only comes when the source is rejected. I can't make you or any others believe anything, but my response was given because of particular queries by the OP. Like I told him, this is a God who wants to be found and He answers the prayers of those who belong to Him. If you want Him to reveal Himself to you personally, ask Him to do so. If not, believe anything you want to believe about any other supposed source.

How arrogant of you to assume I have not.

What Christians interpret as evidence of God typically, in my experience is all too often nothing more than wishful thinking, projecting their own self-serving attitudes and biases onto the Infinite. "I like patriarchy, misogyny, and homophobia, therefore so does a maximally great being we call God"
 
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AV1611VET

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What Christians interpret as evidence of God typically, in my experience is all too often nothing more than wishful thinking,
You mean these are products of wishful thinking?

1. Time divided into BC and AD.
2. Organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army.
3. Hospitals built by Christian organizations.
4. Beautiful Christian artwork, edifices, statuary and literature.
5. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins and UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance.
6. The Ten Commandments and other literature displayed in public.
7. Christmas & Easter
8. Symbols on bumper stickers and flags.
9. Public debates in the name of Christianity.
10. Crosses and billboards erected to testify of Jesus Christ.
 
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FireDragon76

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You mean these are products of wishful thinking?

1. Time divided into BC and AD.

Huh? That's not evidence at all.

You do realize if you were a Muslim, you would divide time around the rise of Islam, and not around Christ's hypothesized birth? How would that be evidence for the veracity of Islam's claims?

2. Organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army.

I don't understand how that's evidence at all for the exclusive truth claims of Chistianity. Lots of religions have charitable and philanthropic activities.

4. Beautiful Christian artwork, edifices, statuary and literature.

All the beauty in the Sistine Chapel was built off the sweat of German peasants, with money fleeced off them for vain religious promises of salvation. So no, I don't see the transcendent beauty there.

5. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins and UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance.

Good grief. Religious imperialism and symbols of civil religion are now supposed to be evidence for the truth of a religion? If that's the case, then one should choose Islam, and not Christianity, as their religion.

This sort of logic is simply shameful.
 
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AV1611VET

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Huh? That's not evidence at all.
Actually, it is.

James said, "Faith without works is dead."

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

And, of course, what is faith?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We demonstrate we have faith in God through our works.

Which in turn, becomes evidence of God.

Look at it this way:

If Jesus had never been born, would we be saying MERRY CHRISTMAS?

Conversely, if Allah never existed,* would there be mosques?

* Allah is a fallen angel. As Lucifer said, "I will be like the Most High." Anything God has, Satan has a cheap imitation.
 
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FireDragon76

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Actually, it is.

James said, "Faith without works is dead."

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

And, of course, what is faith?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We demonstrate we have faith in God through our works.

Which in turn, becomes evidence of God.

Look at it this way:

If Jesus had never been born, would we be saying MERRY CHRISTMAS?

What is this "we" business? Do you think everyone in the US is a Christian? Some in the US are not, nor are they insubstantial numbers. The number of Americans with no religious affiliation is greater than the number of Americans who identify as evangelicals.


Conversely, if Allah never existed,* would there be mosques?

That's ridiculous. Places like Disneyland exist, but that doesn't mean Mickey Mouse is a real person.
 
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You mean these are products of wishful thinking?

1. Time divided into BC and AD.
2. Organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army.
3. Hospitals built by Christian organizations.
4. Beautiful Christian artwork, edifices, statuary and literature.
5. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins and UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance.
6. The Ten Commandments and other literature displayed in public.
7. Christmas & Easter
8. Symbols on bumper stickers and flags.
9. Public debates in the name of Christianity.
10. Crosses and billboards erected to testify of Jesus Christ.
Yes. That's exactly what they are.
Nothing on your list is actually proof that God exists. Just that people believe that He does.
Presumably you don't think the temples erected to the Greek gods were proof that they existed.
 
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Tone

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Yes. That's exactly what they are.
Nothing on your list is actually proof that God exists. Just that people believe that He does.
Presumably you don't think the temples erected to the Greek gods were proof that they existed.

Well, unlike those kingdoms, His Kingdom will have no end.
 
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AV1611VET

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Yes. That's exactly what they are.
Either that, or they are.
InterestedAtheist said:
Nothing on your list is actually proof that God exists. Just that people believe that He does.
Which came first? JEHOVAH or the Tabernacle in the Wilderness? in your opinion?
InterestedAtheist said:
Presumably you don't think the temples erected to the Greek gods were proof that they existed.
They aren't? You don't know me very well, do you?

Pop quiz: Do I think Paul Bunyan was real?
 
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Either that, or they are.Which came first? JEHOVAH or the Tabernacle in the Wilderness? in your opinion?They aren't? You don't know me very well, do you?

Pop quiz: Do I think Paul Bunyan was real?
Sorry, AV. No idea what any of this means. You'll need to explain yourself more clearly.
 
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