Do Christians actually believe in God?

[InterestedAtheist]

Charismatic?

No; I've actually never been a Christian.

 

[AV1611VET]

No; I've actually never been a Christian.

Oh.

Okay.

What's with the deep theological questions then?

I'm glad you're curious, but that's like a kid wanting to know calculus before he learns arithmetic.

 

[Tone]

Oh.

Okay.

What's with the deep theological questions then?

I'm glad you're curious, but that's like a kid wanting to know calculus before he learns arithmetic.

I think he's wanting to confuse the kids on arithmetic.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think he's wanting to confuse the kids on arithmetic.

I get that impression too. Look at his signature.

 

[Tone]

I get that impression too. Look at his signature.

Ha ha, he says those can't be answered:

- The latter
- Yes
- They do
- No

I just answered them.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Oh.

Okay.

What's with the deep theological questions then?

I'm glad you're curious, but that's like a kid wanting to know calculus before he learns arithmetic.

Why do you think, AV?
I am here to save your soul.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why do you think, AV?
I am here to save your soul.

I'll keep my opinion to myself, seeing as you are an amicable poster.

 

[LightBearer]

Absolutely wrong. Check out the link.

I'll pass.

If that link favors the Crusades and the Holocaust as being Christian endeavors done with respect to the Bible, then it must be in cahoots with academia.

Many educated people here think that, just because Hitler wore a belt buckle that said GOTT MIT UNS on it, that made him a Christian.

I don't know what our colleges are teaching today in their history classes, but it's wrong.

Hi there AV1611VET,

Which part of "absolutely wrong" did you not get.

The "Crusades" were not only "absolutely wrong" but were Satanic. True Christians were not involved, nominal christians were, but they were christian in name only. They were the false christians Jesus and the Apostles warned against.

Titus 1:16 "They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort."

Stay well and safe,
LB

 

[Tone]

[Whoopsie]

 

[AV1611VET]

Hi there AV1611VET,

Which part of "absolutely wrong" did you not get.

The "Crusades" were not only "absolutely wrong" but were Satanic. True Christians were not involved, nominal christians were, but they were christian in name only. They were the false christians Jesus and the Apostles warned against.

Titus 1:16 "They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort."

Stay well and safe,
LB

Thank you, LB.

But I think we're on the same page here about the Crusades.

They were done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

 

[Par5]

Thank you, LB.

But I think we're on the same page here about the Crusades.

They were done in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It.

I rather think they took their lead from the bible. It shows that death and destruction was something that the biblical god used on occasions to satisfy his will. The slaughter of the Canaanites is an example of one such occasion.
The well known Christian apologist William Lane Craig wrote an article about this event. It was filled with the usual excuses apologists give when it comes to their god's violence. God is good, god is just, god can kill whoever and whenever he wants. They had it coming. That the soldiers were not committing murder as they were acting under "divine command."
What struck me most about the article was the people to whom Graig directed his sympathy in this slaughter. It was not the women and children, but the soldiers carrying out the slaughter.
He said, "the most difficult part of this whole debate is the apparent wrong done to the Israeli soldiers themselves. Can you imagine what it would be like to have to break into some house and kill a terrified woman and her children? The brutalizing effect on these Israeli soldiers is disturbing."
What can you say about a statement like that?

 

[AV1611VET]

I rather think they took their lead from the bible.

Well of course the Crusaders took their lead from the Bible. But they were wrong. And they ended up killing people in spite of the Bible, not with respect to It. The Crusaders may disagree with me, but that doesn't make what they did right.

It shows that death and destruction was something that the biblical god used on occasions to satisfy his will. The slaughter of the Canaanites is an example of one such occasion.

The Canaanites were given 400 years to repent and vacate the land that was promised to Abraham; but they chose to stay and squat on the land instead.

Notice what Rahab says, when the two spies show up:

Joshua 2:8 And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof;
9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.

It was no secret that Canaan belonged to the Hebrews.

And even the land didn't want the squatters:

Leviticus 18:25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

They were sacrificing their children to Molech, and doing all sorts of abominable atrocities.

And when Joshua and company showed up and said, "Times up! You had your chance! End of the line!" they choose to fight, rather than run.

 

[Par5]

Yet another Christian who excuses mass murder. No surprise there. The Canaanites may well have been guilty of vile and barbaric behaviour, but it was equalled by the vile and barbaric actions of the Israelites. Unless of course you don't think slaughtering helpless women and children is barbaric.
Graig's sympathy for the soldiers carrying out the slaughter was pathetic, but there was truth that being involved in such mass killing would have an adverse effect on them.
The nazis discovered that when they carried out mass shootings of Jews.
The constant killings affected the morale of the soldiers doing the shooting, so a more "efficient" way of solving the "Jewish problem" was the gas chamber.
As far as the killing of the Canaanites is concerned, it is only relevant if it actually happened. There is little to no evidence of an exodus let alone the Canaanites being wiped out, especially when you consider their ancestors are living in Lebanon today.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yet another Christian who excuses mass murder. No surprise there. The Canaanites may well have been guilty of vile and barbaric behaviour, but it was equalled by the vile and barbaric actions of the Israelites. Unless of course you don't think slaughtering helpless women and children is barbaric.
Graig's sympathy for the soldiers carrying out the slaughter was pathetic, but there was truth that being involved in such mass killing would have an adverse effect on them.
The nazis discovered that when they carried out mass shootings of Jews.
The constant killings affected the morale of the soldiers doing the shooting, so a more "efficient" way of solving the "Jewish problem" was the gas chamber.
As far as the killing of the Canaanites is concerned, it is only relevant if it actually happened. There is little to no evidence of an exodus let alone the Canaanites being wiped out, especially when you consider their ancestors are living in Lebanon today.

Since we're off-topic, if you want to continue this discussion, feel free to start a thread on it, and I'll be happy to oblige.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I get that impression too. Look at his signature.

Yes, please do.
I think it's a bit above your level, but have at it if you like.

Ha ha, he says those can't be answered:
- The latter
- Yes
- They do
- No
I just answered them.

Oh, I think it will take a bit more than that.
If you actually want to address them, you might find yourself in difficulties. But if you want to choose one of these questions - and I really wouldn't recommend that you try more than one of them at once - do feel free to start a thread on it, and I'll be happy to set you straight. @AV1611VET , the invitation is for you too, of course.

Be warned - you're not the first Christians on this forum to try to answer these questions to their satisfaction. But if you succeed, you will be the first Christians to do so.

Just to get you started:
- Does God command something because it is good, or is it good because God commands it?
Before you answer this, please make sure you're familiar with Euthyphro's Dilemma.
- Can you prove that Santa does not exist?
I was going to wait a couple of months to bring this one up, but if you like...
- Why don't prayers ever have any effect?
Actually, they have lots of effects. They make the people praying feel calmer, feel happier, they use up time, they may leave your knees sore. But as to effects from God, please produce evidence of this if you have it.
- Does the Bible endorse slavery?
Yes, quite explicitly, in both the Old and New Testaments.

 

[Tone]

Yes, please do.
I think it's a bit above your level, but have at it if you like.


Oh, I think it will take a bit more than that.
If you actually want to address them, you might find yourself in difficulties. But if you want to choose one of these questions - and I really wouldn't recommend that you try more than one of them at once - do feel free to start a thread on it, and I'll be happy to set you straight. @AV1611VET , the invitation is for you too, of course.

Be warned - you're not the first Christians on this forum to try to answer these questions to their satisfaction. But if you succeed, you will be the first Christians to do so.

Just to get you started:
- Does God command something because it is good, or is it good because God commands it?
Before you answer this, please make sure you're familiar with Euthyphro's Dilemma.
- Can you prove that Santa does not exist?
I was going to wait a couple of months to bring this one up, but if you like...
- Why don't prayers ever have any effect?
Actually, they have lots of effects. They make the people praying feel calmer, feel happier, they use up time, they may leave your knees sore. But as to effects from God, please produce evidence of this if you have it.
- Does the Bible endorse slavery?
Yes, quite explicitly, in both the Old and New Testaments.

I'll raise.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I'll raise.

Okay. Which question would you like to address?

 

[AV1611VET]

- Does the Bible endorse slavery?

No. Other than the word "slavery" not found in the Bible, here are my Cliff's Notes on the Civil War:

1. The South was pro-slavery.
2. The North was anti-slavery.
3. God broke the tie.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I think now is a good point to look back at the OP. It addressed an issue I'm curious about. Why is there an inconsistency between what Christians say they believe and the ways in which they act. Many Christians say they believe in a God who answers prayers and wants them to ask Him for things. But why do they only ever ask Him for things that might happen anyway? Some Christians have answered this, but most of them missed the point, and none have been able to address it, as far as I can see.

As for the first there questions - why are Christians who believe they can talk to God and He to them so incurious in what they say and ask; and why Christians who say they believe in help do not act as if they believe it exists, nobody has said anything about them yet.

Curious.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

No. Other than the word "slavery" not found in the Bible, here are my Cliff's Notes on the Civil War:

1. The South was pro-slavery.
2. The North was anti-slavery.
3. God broke the tie.

The South was indeed pro slavery, and also pro God. And they made a very good argument as to why the Bible was on their side.

I won't say any more in this thread. As you pointed out, we're getting off topic. Would you like to start a thread so we can discuss the issue?