Do Catholics REsacrifice Jesus in the mass?

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bloodbought09

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I hate this kind of mentality. i really do. This whole Evangelical 'You're not saved because there is no Happy Clappy Service going on. You not saved because Your Pastor doesn't ask people up to receivie Christ like we do.Your not saved because you not speaking in tounges/signs."

First off who is interpretating these so called "Signs". If I'm not mistaken Paul warns of this and also has said not all will. And the ones who do in public should have an interpretor. did he not say he would rather speak 5 words everyone will understand instead of a 1000 no one will?

And second of all how do you know what's going on in peoples hearts when they are at Confirmation? I didn't do an alter Call ala Billy Graham. I went through Confirmation through my UMC and I knew exactly what was going on and my heart was filled with the spirit .

Before Billy Graham (who I admire deeply by the way) made this whole Alter Call/Sinner's prayer popular in the late 70's what did all these Evangelicals do to get "saved"?

I hate this whole "If you church doesn't have a screen with music and a karoke machine blarring, then your service is dead and has no spirit. and if you don't come up to the Pastor and say the sinner's prayer like we do then you are not saved" mentalitly

irks me to no end

Ok off of soap box.

I did not say anything about happy clappy stuff. I was talking about being born of the Holy Spirit, believing and the signs following those who believe. You are being about as judgmental yourself, but I will not call you a hypocrit. You know what is in your heart. You are right I don't. I try not to judge by outside appearance and you know well that it is hard to see into someone when you cannot look into their eyes. We can come in here, make up an avatar, be whoever we want to be. I will to be on the outside, just as I am in letter, in here. I am here to tell about the true bride of Christ. 5 intelligible words: the true bride of Christ....
 
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boswd

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I did not say anything about happy clappy stuff. I was talking about being born of the Holy Spirit, believing and the signs following those who believe. You are being about as judgmental yourself, but I will not call you a hypocrit. You know what is in your heart. You are right I don't. I try not to judge by outside appearance and you know well that it is hard to see into someone when you cannot look into their eyes. We can come in here, make up an avatar, be whoever we want to be. I will to be on the outside, just as I am in letter, in here. I am here to tell about the true bride of Christ. 5 intelligible words: the true bride of Christ....


but you have no problems saying Catholics have no spirit.

They have spirit yes they do
They have spirit HOW BOUT YOU!!!;)
 
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Trento

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Yep..I tried.I posted scripture to show that it was aginst levitical law to eat blood,and that Jesus called it the fruit of the vine...oh well.


Of course thats why most of the Jews walked away. Does this hard saying offend you?

JOHN 6
56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
 
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Trento

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Now I am confused. If Catholics do not sacrifice Christ in the Mass how is it then a sacrificial sacrament?[/quote]

For the thirde time.
First, one must not separate the sacrifice of our Lord on the cross from the events which surround it. The sacrifice of our Lord is inseparably linked to the Last Supper. Here Jesus took bread and wine. Looking to St. Matthew's text (26:26ff), He said over the bread, "Take this and eat it. This is My body"; and over the cup of wine, "This is My blood, the blood of the covenant, to be poured out on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins."
The next day, on Good Friday, our Lord's body hung on the altar of the cross and His precious blood was spilt to wash away our sins and seal the everlasting, perfect covenant. (note)The divine life our Lord offered and shared for our salvation in the sacrifice of Good Friday is the same offered and shared at the Last Supper. The Last Supper, the sacrifice of Good Friday and the Resurrection on Easter form one saving event.


Read that over again and let it sink in.


One must have a nuanced understanding of time. One must distinguish chronological time from kairotic time, as found in sacred Scripture. In the Bible, <chronos> refers to chronological time—past, present and future—specific deeds which have an end point. <Kairos>, or kairotic time, refers to God's eternal time, time of the present moment which recapitulates the entire past as well as contains the entire future. Therefore, while our Lord's saving event occurred chronologically around the year AD 30-33, in the kairotic sense of time it is an ever-present reality which touches our lives here and now. In the same sense, this is why through baptism we share now in the mystery of Christ's passion, death and resurrection, a chronological event that happened almost 1,965 years ago, but is still efficacious for us today.
With this in mind, we also remember that our Lord commanded, as recorded in the Gospel of St. Luke (22:14ff) and St. Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians (11:23ff), "Do this in remembrance of Me." Clearly our Lord wanted the faithful to repeat, to participate in and to share in this sacramental mystery. The Last Supper, which is inseparably linked to Good Friday (and the Resurrection), is perpetuated in the holy Mass for time eternal.
The Mass therefore is a memorial. In each of the Eucharistic prayers, the <anamnesis>, or memorial, follows the consecration, whereby we call to mind the passion, death, resurrection and ascension of our Lord. However, this memorial is not simply a recollection of past history in chronological time, but rather a liturgical proclamation of living history, of an event that continues to live and touch our lives now in that sense of kairotic time.
 
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bloodbought09

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Of course thats why most of the Jews walked away. Does this hard saying offend you?

JOHN 6
56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Word!:thumbsup:
 
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student ad x

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MOD HAT ON

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CF staff asks that posts remain on-topic. At this point forward, posts that are off-topic will be removed from the discussion.

MOD HAT OFF
 
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bbbbbbb

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Now I am confused. If Catholics do not sacrifice Christ in the Mass how is it then a sacrificial sacrament?[/quote]

For the thirde time.
First, one must not separate the sacrifice of our Lord on the cross from the events which surround it. The sacrifice of our Lord is inseparably linked to the Last Supper. Here Jesus took bread and wine. Looking to St. Matthew's text (26:26ff), He said over the bread, "Take this and eat it. This is My body"; and over the cup of wine, "This is My blood, the blood of the covenant, to be poured out on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins."
The next day, on Good Friday, our Lord's body hung on the altar of the cross and His precious blood was spilt to wash away our sins and seal the everlasting, perfect covenant. (note)The divine life our Lord offered and shared for our salvation in the sacrifice of Good Friday is the same offered and shared at the Last Supper. The Last Supper, the sacrifice of Good Friday and the Resurrection on Easter form one saving event.


Read that over again and let it sink in.


One must have a nuanced understanding of time. One must distinguish chronological time from kairotic time, as found in sacred Scripture. In the Bible, <chronos> refers to chronological time—past, present and future—specific deeds which have an end point. <Kairos>, or kairotic time, refers to God's eternal time, time of the present moment which recapitulates the entire past as well as contains the entire future. Therefore, while our Lord's saving event occurred chronologically around the year AD 30-33, in the kairotic sense of time it is an ever-present reality which touches our lives here and now. In the same sense, this is why through baptism we share now in the mystery of Christ's passion, death and resurrection, a chronological event that happened almost 1,965 years ago, but is still efficacious for us today.
With this in mind, we also remember that our Lord commanded, as recorded in the Gospel of St. Luke (22:14ff) and St. Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians (11:23ff), "Do this in remembrance of Me." Clearly our Lord wanted the faithful to repeat, to participate in and to share in this sacramental mystery. The Last Supper, which is inseparably linked to Good Friday (and the Resurrection), is perpetuated in the holy Mass for time eternal.
The Mass therefore is a memorial. In each of the Eucharistic prayers, the <anamnesis>, or memorial, follows the consecration, whereby we call to mind the passion, death, resurrection and ascension of our Lord. However, this memorial is not simply a recollection of past history in chronological time, but rather a liturgical proclamation of living history, of an event that continues to live and touch our lives now in that sense of kairotic time.

Thanks for the explanation. I will stick with the understanding that the Catholic Church views the Eucharist as a Memorial Feast and not as a (re)sacrificing of Christ. I put it in the same category as changing bread and wine into flesh and blood, yet ending up with "accidents" which are bread and wine.
 
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bloodbought09

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Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Hebrews 10:11-12

11. And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Hebrews 10:11-12

11. And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God.
:thumbsup: :pray:

1 corin 11:26 For as often ever ye may be eating the bread, this, and the drink-cup ye may be drinking, the death of the Lord ye are according-messaging until which ever He may be coming/elqh <2064> (5632)
[Revelation 19:11]

Reve 19:11 And I saw the heaven having be opened and behold! A horse, white and the One sitting on it/him being called Faithful and True and in justice He is judging and is battling.
 
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Dark_Lite

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:kyaa: Just answer the question! The suggested answers are yes, or no, then we can go!

The answer is no, and will continue to be no until the end of time. Your question was answered on the third, fourth, and fifth posts. This thread should have been over then.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Seriously guys, I have lost interest in this thread. I am covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. I will make my exit. See you all in another thread soon. Love and peace, and bacon grease. Bless.
That is what I said a few times :D
It was frogsters question, not mine. Frogster will now ask that the mod squad closes this thread, because the fun is over. Bye, do not address me, because I will not respond again in this thread. Bless.:)
Ok, I won't.
Just don't respond to me or others from here on out ehehe.....
 
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bloodbought09

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The answer is no, and will continue to be no until the end of time. Your question was answered on the third, fourth, and fifth posts. This thread should have been over then.

It was frogsters question, not mine. Frogster will now ask that the mod squad closes this thread, because the fun is over. Bye, do not address me, because I will not respond again in this thread. Bless.:)
 
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benedictaoo

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The baby is just laying in the baptismal,,it has no idea what da heck,is going on.

In the bible,the adults,repented,they made a decision,

One more time...

In the bible, everybody was a Jew, or pagan... grown ups needed to A) be converted to Christ and B) then "get saved"...

How did they get saved? Meaning redeemed... They were baptized and two things happened to them when they were.

1) Original Sin was removed and they were reconciled back to God from being born into the human race, (Adam represented the human race), A race who set itself apart from God. They went from Adam to Christ... Jesus is the new Adam, who now represents the human race... when we are baptized, we are baptized into Christ. Into this mystery. Out of Adam and into Christ.

With me so far? good... lets continue.

# 2 thing that happens, what ever personal sins they committed for themselves and were guilty of, was forgiven as well. A clean slate. and neither Adam' sin nor any of the sins of their past can ever be held against them again.

Now they can go on to commit a bunch of new sins and chances are they did but since they have been "born again", they won't need another baptism, there is only ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins... meaning since they are Christians, children of God, they have that right, like a birth right, that when they repent, God will grant them forgiveness.

So after they were born again in baptism, as the bible says, they would bring their households to be baptized as well.

Now seriously, if you don't honestly think there were babies in the households, then I don't know how to even respond to that unreasonable assumption.

But going on the reasonable assumption babies were part of these households, the children of the first converts were brought for baptism.

keep in mind now, baptism is not a outward sign of your choice to get saved... it is the pascal mystery, the new covenant, the passover, passing from death in sin to life in Christ.

So babies were baptized once the parents converted.. those who were converted who then after that, bore children, we see in the very early Church, they baptized their children.

That is the bible explanation to your query.

Now to answer you other question...

So you adhere to a works based salvation? :confused:

The baby is being freed of being born into a world that rejected God. The baby is having Adam's sin removed from him, none of his own sins for the simple reason- he has none at this stage in the game.

I really do not know why you think one saves themselves with their good decision to be saved... but that isn't how it works.

We don't start out sinning but we end up sinning, ie, we are all sinners.

So a baby in only is need of being reconciled to God becuase he was born into Adam and baptism is how he goes from Adam to Christ- ie "born again."

Since none of us chooses to be born, let alone born sinners, we aren't require to have to choose to have the sin removed from us. It is a free unmerited gift of Jesus.... that is why he died, becuase ADAM'S sin needed satisfaction so we could be reconciled back to God

baptism removes Adam sin, makes us children of God, so one really has to ask, what do you have against giving your child this free wonderful gift?

You love them right? Why on earth can't you give them this gift?

The baby, when he grows up and begins to know what sin is, he is most certainly free to choose it. baptism does not mean he is saved, just that he is redeemed from being born Adam's seed.

If he wants to go to heaven when he dies, he will have to as an adult, like you say, accept the grace of God that was given to hi so long ago and cooperate with the grace if he will be saved in the end.

capisci?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by Frogster The baby is just laying in the baptismal,,it has no idea what da heck,is going on.

In the bible,the adults,repented,they made a decision,
*snip*
One more time...

How did they get saved? Meaning redeemed... They were baptized and two things happened to them when they were.

So after they were born again in baptism, as the bible says, they would bring their households to be baptized as well.


The baby, when he grows up and begins to know what sin is, he is most certainly free to choose it. baptism does not mean he is saved, just that he is redeemed from being born Adam's seed.

capisci?
Off Topic :wave:

http://www.christianforums.com/t6757718/
Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation???
 
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