Do 'Catholics' go to Hell?

[Michie]

There really isn't a Protestant baptism, there is a Catholic baptism administered outside the visible communion of the Church.

It would be more precise to say once a Christian always a Christian, because baptism irreversibly made us Christians. You weren't baptized Foursquare, you were baptized into the Church you now belong to, though you weren't in communion with that Church until your reception as an adult.

Excellent answer Jared! So the benefits of baptism are the same but the fullness of faith may not be present in the Church we were baptised as they are all united albeit imperfectly with the Catholic Church. Am I reading you correctly?

 

[christseeker45]

I researched some and here is what I came up with:

The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer, in addition to grace, a sacramental character or "seal" by which the Christian shares in Christ's priesthood and is made a member of the Church according to different states and functions. This configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible, it remains for ever in the Christian as a positive disposition for grace, a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and to the service of the Church. Therefore these sacraments can never be repeated.

CCC 1121
CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1121

and

Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

CCC 1272
CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1272

This may help a bit

 

[Memento Mori]

Excellent answer Jared! So the benefits of baptism are the same but the fullness of faith may not be present in the Church we were baptised as they are all united albeit imperfectly with the Catholic Church. Am I reading you correctly?

Bingo, that's exactly it. There is a quote in the Catechism to a similar effect, but I just started feeling a little queasy, so I'm going to get off before I lose my dinner.

 

[Michie]

Bingo, that's exactly it. There is a quote in the Catechism to a similar effect, but I just started feeling a little queasy, so I'm going to get off before I lose my dinner.

Feel better Jared & thank you & everyone else help me work through this.

 

[Fantine]

What an interesting discussion.

It's almost enough to make baptized Catholics want to get dunked in the Baptist Church to get the baptism with the lifetime warranty

Surely that isn't the point.

 

[MikeK]

It's almost enough to make baptized Catholics want to get dunked in the Baptist Church to get the baptism with the lifetime warranty

Surely that isn't the point.

OSAS sounds like a pretty good deal, but why not try what the Muslims are offering? 77 virgins sounds better than an eternity spent in worship....better still, the LDS will hook you up with your own planet, that's a really sweet deal.

You may choose truth, or you may choose to worship the God that promises you the most stuff or best odds.

 

[Standing Up]

The communion of Saints are only in Heaven, those in Hell are not part of the body of Christ

No just "getting wet" is a purely protestant idea

So, a person baptized Catholic remains Catholic no matter what. He may go to hell.

At what point is he not a Catholic? How would part of the Catholic Body be in hell? When he gets to hell, he's then no longer Catholic?

 

[Standing Up]

What an interesting discussion.

It's almost enough to make baptized Catholics want to get dunked in the Baptist Church to get the baptism with the lifetime warranty

Surely that isn't the point.

From what everyone seems to be saying, Catholic baptism is not only a lifetime deal, but an eternal one, even if in hell.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

At what point is he not a Catholic? How would part of the Catholic Body be in hell? When he gets to hell, he's then no longer Catholic?

Honestly, is it that important if the person is or is no longer a Catholic once they are in hell?

 

[christseeker45]

So, a person baptized Catholic remains Catholic no matter what. He may go to hell.

At what point is he not a Catholic? How would part of the Catholic Body be in hell? When he gets to hell, he's then no longer Catholic?

A person is no longer Catholic upon excommunication I believe. Yes Catholic and Protestants will be in Hell, but that does not mean they are Christians. A person once Catholic remains Catholic all his life according to the Church

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

A person is no longer Catholic upon excommunication I believe.

No, they are still considered Catholic but they are forbidden from taking the Eucharist or participating in the liturgy.

 

[christseeker45]

Thank you for the correction

 

[Memento Mori]

Found the CCC paragraph I was thinking of (1271):

Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church." "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."​

 

[benedictaoo]

So, you think the pedophile priest is still catholic, rather than a wolf in sheep's clothing?

There's never a possibility that someone just got wet in their baptism? Catholic theology does not allow for that?

certainly not and I will fully explain it, take precious time out my life to explain it you but first lets clear something up...

I think the pedophilia priests are pseudos in so much as they pretend to love God and others. They love themselves. but lemme explain something to you straight up. I am not like these other Catholics here and you will not talk to me like you do these. If u really do not want to listen, then do not ask. I was answering Michie.

I will be more then happy to break this all down and explain it to you but I will not put up with comments like this one. ^ i am in no way one of the apologist for the Church when it comes to sex abuse and the pathetic way it was handled .

The fact is this, sacraments are given, conferred by humans but they really come from Christ, not them. Christ is with God in heaven and humans are down here. The priest acts on Christs behalf even if he's a creep and a sicko. Lay people can confer the sacrament of baptism on other people in emergency cases because its God working, not the person, the grace does not come from the person but from God.

and redemption from the fall is FREE!!!!!!! it does not depend on ANYONE or ANYTHING. Its given and we have it and once we do have it- we the person, us, ourselves, have to accept it in order for it to be fruitful in our lives. We can forsake it if we choose to.

So, no, the state of the soul of the person conferring the grace on the person for God is not what will make it valid on not. the priest must be ordained properly. and if he is a sicko then guess what? that is his bad and God will deal with him but when he confers the sacraments, he is doing it on Christ behalf and its God doing it so his state of soul does not matter. this is not the OT where the priest sins matter. Christ is the high priest, there is only ONE and its Jesus and the priest here is only physically doing the ritual on His behalf.

 

[benedictaoo]

Yes I understand that. But once you reject it unto death... what then? What good does it do? That is what I'm trying to find out. I know what Scripture says. What does the Church say?

The Church says you go to hell with the mark of baptism and you get tortured worse for being a Christian there then not being one. So make sure you don't go.

You then have the full awareness of what you had and forsaken, and for what? for sin? and you are bitter times a zillion, not repentant but resentful and it makes you hate God even more and you spend eternity cursing Him and yourself for this reality.

 

[benedictaoo]

If you reject it unto death you still are a Catholic and still end up in Hell. Basically the way I understand it the Church says once your a Catholic you are always a Catholic but that does not guarantee Salvation like OSAS would

to say we are still Catholic and that we are Catholic is the same as saying we are Christian. the words are the same words and they refer to the baptized, not the person who "accepts" Jesus and is "saved" and acts a certain way. That is all made up stuff and frankly, I think the title "Christian" was made up... what a baptized person is , is Catholic which mean Christian, according to the truth, all of it. and what is the truth? Jesus.

The reason why this is so hard to explain and to understand is because the Reformation messed it up with their made up stuff. Its they who broke the word "catholic" up into two different meanings but they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[benedictaoo]

Thank you Jim. You answered my questions.

All except what the indelible mark does & Catholic baptism versus protestant baptism. Why is it better? What are the benefits? Apostolic succession aside. If the formula is correct... why is Catholic baptism still better?

Its not better. the benefit is that you get to be raised in the Church so you can be taught the fullness of the theology and get all the sacraments, with no error and knowing the truth sets you free, meaning it makes it easier to follow and reach theosis if you know it. that is why we all should be Catholic, because its the truth with out the error mixed in it.

thats all, but a Lutheran is not any less redeemed then a Catholic, its the Catholic that has the fullness of theology and they kinda don't. but to whom much is given, much is expected and we will be held to a higher standard because we know more.

So is it a benefit? or is ignorance bliss?

 

[Root of Jesse]

It may leave an indelible mark on the soul but if you reject that & the responsibilities that go along with it, it may be worse for you in the end if you never had it to begin with. As Scripture states.

My point is you cannot claim a label & do something that goes against what that label means & say, yeah, thats Catholic because that person is a Catholic. That is not the case.

But that's exactly what some Catholics claim. Fr. Bill Casey calls them "But Catholics". I'm Catholic, but I disagree with the Church on..., or I'm Catholic but I support abortion rights...

Look at Nancy Pelosi. She's certainly a baptised Catholic. But I think she embraces the label while denying the substance.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I simply want to know how this indelible mark affects us. What are the benefits in our daily lives before we go to meet God.

The Indelible mark opens us to the gift of faith, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

But one has to be open to faith, and not just practice religion for conformity sake.


Jim

 

[isshinwhat]

I look at it like a Marriage. Once you are Catholic you are married to Christ's Church. You can claim divorce, you can claim to be married to another, but the Church is still your spouse, despite your opinion to the contrary. You may be an unfaithful, adulterous spouse, but you are a spouse nonetheless.