Do believers make poor scientists?

[createdtoworship]

You are very possibly reading a biased one sided narrative as to why the firing took place.

possibly not though

 

[AV1611VET]

You are very possibly reading a biased one sided narrative as to why the firing took place.

Then why don't you provide a biased one sided narrative as to why he shouldn't have been fired to balance it out?

 

[46AND2]

It's amazing he got the job in the first place, considering his degrees are from unaccredited schools.

 

[createdtoworship]

It's amazing he got the job in the first place, considering his degrees are from unaccredited schools.

what I think is amazing is how his works were peer reviewed, given he wasn't accredited. I would tend to think your source was a little off.

 

[46AND2]

what I think is amazing is how his works were peer reviewed, given he wasn't accredited. I would tend to think your source was a little off.

My source was creation.com. Good enough for you?

You don't even need to have a degree at all to get peer-reviewed publishing.

 

[createdtoworship]

my bet was he posted sites like this:

(with the secular university in the title)

Radiohalos in diamonds

and they got mad.

the dinosaur tissue was the straw the broke the camels back

 

[createdtoworship]

My source was creation.com. Good enough for you?

You don't even need to have a degree at all to get peer-reviewed publishing.

(edited)

I found it, and you are wrong in assuming liberty university is unaccredited.

"As an accredited institution, Liberty University is eligible to participate in federal educational programs such as military tuition assistance, government tuition reimbursement programs, the GI Bill and corporate tuition assistance. Credits and degrees earned through Liberty are therefore recognized by private industry and by the military and federal government for promotion, assignment and position qualification standards."
above quote from:

https://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/?PID=7650

 

[createdtoworship]

this one isn't over evolution but general persecution of Christians:

Christian journalist files with EEOC over firing

 

[46AND2]

so what is your point exactly?

and please post a link

Mark H Armitage - creation.com

I thought my point was pretty clear. I thought it was surprising that he obtained a university job without an accredited degree.

 

[createdtoworship]

Mark H Armitage - creation.com

I thought my point was pretty clear. I thought it was surprising that he obtained a university job without an accredited degree.

I edited my last post, please see that one.

 

[46AND2]

(edited)

I found it, and you are wrong in assuming liberty university is unaccredited.

"As an accredited institution, Liberty University is eligible to participate in federal educational programs such as military tuition assistance, government tuition reimbursement programs, the GI Bill and corporate tuition assistance. Credits and degrees earned through Liberty are therefore recognized by private industry and by the military and federal government for promotion, assignment and position qualification standards."
above quote from:

https://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/?PID=7650

Liberty has accredited programs. The ones that Armitage obtained are not accredited. Well, the B.S. in education is NCATE accredited, but not regionally accredited, which is typically what is meant by "being accredited." And his science education degree is not accredited at all.

 

[createdtoworship]

Liberty has accredited programs. The ones that Armitage obtained are not accredited. Well, the B.S. in education is NCATE accredited, but not regionally accredited, which is typically what is meant by "being accredited." And his science education degree is not accredited at all.

I wouldn't say he attended an non accredited school:

It's amazing he got the job in the first place, considering his degrees are from unaccredited schools.

Because I believe Liberty has regional institutional accreditation:

under regional accreditation on wikipedia I see
"Southern Association of Colleges and Schools" (which has accredited Liberty University.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accreditation


then you changed the bars later to say, his degree was unaccredited.

I thought it was surprising that he obtained a....job without an accredited degree.

I am fairly sure this is a shock to you that He has come from an accredited school, and has a degree in an NCATE accredited program, which is sufficient for a NCATE school to hire.
http://www.ncate.org/Public/Current...raduatesFutureTeachers/tabid/602/Default.aspx

So you were wrong twice here.

But this is a prime example of persecution of a creationist in a public workplace (scientific).

 

[SimplyNothing]

Because IDK is always a position someone can have on pretty much anything, so why bother mentioning it unless people try to claim an issue is extremely black and white? To be honest though, you are the first person I have spoken to on here who had that position in regards to evolution.

With the timescales we're referring to, I have a feeling I will never come to an actual conclusion about the situation. It's fine with me though. I think it would be intellectually dishonest to just pick a side.

Be careful, bro.

You need to put roots down somewhere.

And I love your avatar!

We'll see.

Lol thanks man! Me too.

Why? He stated he is not convinced. Why would he put down roots just for the sake of putting down roots, when he isn't convinced?

Sounds like just trying to fool yourself.

Precisely.

 

[46AND2]

I wouldn't say he attended an non accredited school:


Because I believe Liberty has regional institutional accreditation:

under regional accreditation on wikipedia I see
"Southern Association of Colleges and Schools" (which has accredited Liberty University.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accreditation


then you changed the bars later to say, his degree was unaccredited.



I am fairly sure this is a shock to you that He has come from an accredited school, and has a degree in an NCATE accredited program, which is sufficient for a NCATE school to hire.
Recent NCATE Graduates/Future Teachers

So you were wrong twice here.

But this is a prime example of persecution of a creationist in a public workplace (scientific).

Goodness. Have you not heard the term, say, University of Washington School of Medicine? There are different branches of "schools" within a college.

Armitage got his degree in Liberty's "School of Education" which is ONLY nationally accredited...NOT regionally accredited. Yes, Liberty has regional accreditation in some areas...but NOT education.

Therefore, he did not go to a [regionally] accredited school. Liberty's School of Education is not regionally accredited. You know that regionally accredited schools (like major state colleges and universities as well as many junior and private colleges) will not even accept transcript transfers from schools that are only nationally accredited, right?

Besides, I merely expressed my surprise, not that I thought it impossible.

But heck, at least Liberty has SOME accreditation. Kudos to them. Still a junk school.

 

[createdtoworship]

Goodness. Have you not heard the term, say, University of Washington School of Medicine? There are different branches of "schools" within a college.

Armitage got his degree in Liberty's "School of Education" which is ONLY nationally accredited...NOT regionally accredited. Yes, Liberty has regional accreditation in some areas...but NOT education.

Therefore, he did not go to a [regionally] accredited school. Liberty's School of Education is not regionally accredited. You know that regionally accredited schools (like major state colleges and universities as well as many junior and private colleges) will not even accept transcript transfers from schools that are only nationally accredited, right?

Besides, I merely expressed my surprise, not that I thought it impossible.

But heck, at least Liberty has SOME accreditation. Kudos to them. Still a junk school.

well all I was saying is when you said that he didn't come from an accredited school, you were wrong. He did come from a regionally accredited school, as per:

under regional accreditation on wikipedia I see
"Southern Association of Colleges and Schools" (which has accredited Liberty University.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accreditation

Liberty is accredited, and thats what you meant.

You later changed your terms to mean that his degree was not accredited and now you have also changed terms to mean the school within the school, is not accredited, and that to mean he didn't go to an accredited school.

So you are still wrong here.

What you should have said is that the school of education within liberty university is not accredited regionally (although it is accredited nationally and widely accepted for teaching), Being a researcher in UC system, it would naturally follow that he was in fact acceptible for employment.

the NCATE accredited program, which is sufficient for a NCATE school to hire.
Recent NCATE Graduates/Future Teachers

so his persecution was unjust and his termination was unjust.

when his boss says "we will not tolerate your religion in this department"

basically he is saying, to stop being a believer at work.

That is a violation of the freedom of religion.

above quote from:

‘We Will Not Tolerate Your Religion!’ School Fires Scientist for Questioning Evolution | Christian News Network

 

[46AND2]

well all I was saying is when you said that he didn't come from an accredited school, you were wrong. He did come from a regionally accredited school, as per:

under regional accreditation on wikipedia I see
"Southern Association of Colleges and Schools" (which has accredited Liberty University.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accreditation

Liberty is accredited, and thats what you meant.

You later changed your terms to mean that his degree was not accredited and now you have also changed terms to mean the school within the school, is not accredited, and that to mean he didn't go to an accredited school.

So you are still wrong here.

What you should have said is that the school of education within liberty university is not accredited regionally (although it is accredited nationally and widely accepted for teaching), Being a researcher in UC system, it would naturally follow that he was in fact acceptible for employment.

the NCATE accredited program, which is sufficient for a NCATE school to hire.
Recent NCATE Graduates/Future Teachers

so his persecution was unjust and his termination was unjust.

when his boss says "we will not tolerate your religion in this department"

basically he is saying, to stop being a believer at work.

That is a violation of the freedom of religion.

above quote from:

‘We Will Not Tolerate Your Religion!’ School Fires Scientist for Questioning Evolution | Christian News Network

Yawn. I apologize for not being adequately descriptive, and instead used colloquial terms to describe his junk degrees.

I mean, more than likely, the community college closest to you is regionally accredited. So when I say that someone did not go to an accredited school, THAT'S the level I'm talking about. It's not like I'm holding him to some elite standard.

And the the Liberty School of Education is absolutely not regionally accredited. And they don't have any accreditation in life sciences.

Liberty, in general, is not an [regionally] accredited school. They have some accredited programs, yes. Which is apparently good enough for them to consider themselves accredited.

Tell you what. Pick a state college in your state and look into the accreditation. See if they have such a hit&miss type accreditation as Liberty.

 

[46AND2]

I mean, semantics aside, you got my point that I was surprised that he got the job based on his sub-par education, right?

 

[Ada Lovelace]

You are very possibly reading a biased one sided narrative as to why the firing took place.

Indeed. Mark Armitage's lawsuit was discussed on the local news a few nights ago, and the information provided in the piece contradicts the Christian News Network's inflammatory proclamation that he was fired for questioning evolution. That article really feels like propaganda presenting Armitage as having a more significant and influential position than what he truly held, and being persecuted for his religious beliefs when in actuality the primary cause for his termination was budget cuts. CSUN hired him as a "permanent part-time employee" to work two days a week as an electron microscope technician. Though it was an ongoing job, it was still classified as a "temporary appointment," so it's not like he was a tenured professor who had more reliable job security. Their provided reason for the termination was a lack of funding for the position, which considering that there have been perpetual new stories for years relating to Cal State's severe budget deficit that has had ramifications on all their campuses in virtually every regard, this is totally believable to me.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Impressive that he joined the forums 2 years before he was born.

His profile also has embedded age

 

[Ada Lovelace]

I wouldn't say he attended an non accredited school

I would. I was curious after reading your exchanges with 46and2 and so I just looked up him here: Mark Armitage - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science

According to that entry - which I suspect he wrote himself - his Masters Degree is from the Institute for Creation Research Graduate School at Azusa Pacific. That is not an accredited professional program. If you want to be persnickety about semantics, APU itself is accredited, but his degree is not from one of their accredited programs. It's kinda of like how I can technically say I'm Stanford educated because I've attended their EPGY programs for middle and high school kids and have the certificates to prove it, but it would be misleading. It's true that Liberty University's education program is accredited, but there are two things that are pertinent to his degrees (both of which were through online programs) in regards to employment in a teaching capacity. 1) The education program lacked accreditation at the time he obtained his degrees. 2) Neither of the degrees he has from Liberty are from regionally accredited programs.

Anyhooo, he got the part-time job at CSUN because he'd worked as a microscope technician for years, so I don't know to what extent his degrees from Liberty were relevant to that position.

CORRECTION:
Oopsie daisies. It was extremely late when I wrote this post and I misread the CreationWiki post. According to it, he was an Adjunct Professor of Biology at Azusa Pacific University back in the late 90s and early 00s, but he did not receive a Masters degree from this university as I stated. According to that post, he received his Masters Degree from the Institute for Creation Research Graduate School in San Diego, which is not an accredited school. Apologies for the error.