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Do atheists lean more to the left of politics

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by stevevw, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. stevevw

    stevevw inquisitive

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    In debating especially on ethics and morality I have noticed that those that support rights based politics, identity politics, political correctness, ideas like gender ideology, claimate change, abortion are mostly atheists. Is there any connection here. Just wondering.
     
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Western Civilization has, to a large extent, been shaped by Christian values. For people who are not personally "plugged into" those religious values, it's natural for them to be impressed more by ideologies that are separate from religion and, consequently--although not necessarily--from those values which produced our society's concern for individual and inalienable rights and for traditional themes such as the family, private property, due process, etc.
     
  3. PloverWing

    PloverWing Episcopalian

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    I wouldn't say "mostly atheists"; this Pew study (Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics), for example, shows American liberals having a variety of religious views.

    But I agree that many of the loudest Christian voices right now are speaking in opposition to the things you've listed. There does seem to be something about Christianity as practiced in the United States that interferes with Christians supporting these human rights issues. I suspect that the "why" is complicated, with many factors in play.

    On anti-environmentalism, by the way, I got nothin'. I have no clue why Christians should oppose efforts to take care of God's creation. (I think it's only a loud minority of Christians, but still.)
     
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  4. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    A good chunk of what passes for right-wing conservatism in the US is driven by Christian religious beliefs. Beyond that, the Republican party and evangelical groups have been in bed with each other for decades, such that there is a large contingent of voters who conflate conservative policy with Christian doctrine. The result is that the right is going to be over-represented with religious people and the left is going to be over-represented with non-religious people.

    As an aside, I would argue that it's not merely the left that engages in "identity politics." The left's brand of identity politics is a response to the right's brand of identity politics that established white/straight/Christian/conservative as the default or the norm, to the (often deliberate) exclusion of outsiders.
     
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  5. j.k.a.

    j.k.a. Christian faithful from north europe

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    Part's of West faithful in socialism and East had faithful in communism and religion because religion want also be founded in east includding religion in South America in West includding socialism in Venezuela and United States plus in Europe its part's thinks Russia, Germany, France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Danmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland the least I believe progressive thinks socialism here.
     
  6. j.k.a.

    j.k.a. Christian faithful from north europe

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    Progressive had faithful capitalism and socialism.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  7. j.k.a.

    j.k.a. Christian faithful from north europe

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    Russia and Poland lie in the East border.
     
  8. stevevw

    stevevw inquisitive

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    I'm not sure of that. It seems to me that many of the Christian values are natural truths which we all know of in one way of another. So anyone opposing these values must also be denying the truth to some extent for whatever reason. That is normally because there is something in it for them. The position they have chosen to take needs to be justified somehow.

    From what I understand the left is usually also about liberal ideals so people would be more inclined to oppose restictions on behaviour as Christian values require. Therefore if this is the case as has been seen with some of the radical lefts ideologies they lack coherence and rationality. But being so invested in these ideas which are often so closely intwined with self they need to rationalize their position which often means denial of truth and facts and an appeal to emotion and rights.
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    We may think that, because we take so much of it as just common sense or common decency. However, if we look at the societal mores of other civilizations we find policies that we consider horrifying and terribly unfair but which are taken by those people to be perfectly normal and just.

    Unfortunately, "liberal" keeps changing its meaning, but what it meant in the pre-Bernie Sanders/AOC days was of someone who wanted to hurry-up or apply more fairly and more evenly the values that were already established in our culture.

     
  10. stevevw

    stevevw inquisitive

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    Or people begin not to be able to tell the difference between a conservative position which may be a good and natural position to take regardless of political persuation and religious views which can be equated with dogman. This would make it hard to argue almost anything conservative. Things become polarized.

    Yes that is similar to what I was mentioning above. There is a middle ground and there are good points on both sides. But as mentioned I think the mixing of religion and politics is not a good thing.
     
  11. stevevw

    stevevw inquisitive

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    Don't get me wrong, I agree there are people and cultures and even those within a western culture who have no excuse to know the law and truth who are evil. But I think we all were born with the knowledge of Gods laws in our heart. Its just that some reject GOd and are blinded to the truth. They look for it in other ways. I think most who oppose God need to justify what they are doing and can get to a point where they cannot tell the truth from the lies they live. It takes a lot to maintain a lie and corruption.

    I think when we look at other cultures and many of the values they have are not to dismimilar. Its just that they have a different way of expressing how to apply those values. Sometimes its the regimne and not the average people who are corrupt. I think if you go to many of these countries like in the Middle east or Russia they pretty much know about the basic moral truths of stuff like the golden rule and dont hurt children ect. There will be corrupt enclaves like everywhere.

    And things are changing fast. Its sort of weird what is happening. Like a sudden rush of blood to the head has made people come out all radical and divided. Its more than politics there is something in the water or something.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    IMO you are right about the speed of things taking us rapidly to a crisis of values, but it's been coming for a fairly long time. It's just that the radicals have only recently realized that they are strong enough now, and have control enough of the media, including the newer forms of communication, to be able to 'go for the kill' and establish a dictatorship.
     
  13. Tiberius Lee

    Tiberius Lee Well-Known Member

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    Pharisees and Sadducees thought Jesus was radical left who came to destroy Judaism .
     
  14. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Pharisees and Sadducees didn't think in political left vs political right terms.
     
  15. Tiberius Lee

    Tiberius Lee Well-Known Member

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    You are right, they didn’t think from political point of view but from cultural and religious point of view. When Jesus defy sabbath, the though he is changing the way of life and dishonoring God’s commandment, when Jesus says “love your enemy” they thought Jesus is undermining the commandment. When liberal says “homosexual can get married” , Christians thinks liberal are destroying God’s law and Christian way of life.

    but as Christian we all agree that , labral or left leaning policy can't change The word of God or His commandment - Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
     
  16. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

    +3,099
    Methodist
    The Believers Share Their Possessions (ACTS 4)

    31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

    32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.

    33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all

    34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

    35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
    *******************************************************

    Much of what currently passes for Christianity amongst American conservatives is the direct result of having recreated God in their own image - a reflection of their 21st C ideological biases!

    Modern conservative Christians, who normally pride themselves in adopting a literal interpretation of the Bible, will tie themselves in knots in their attempts to reject the simple message being presented in "The Believers Share Their Possessions!"

    Apparently these early Believers, while under the influence of the Holy Spirit, were unaware that they were committing conservative "heresy" by sharing their possessions to ensure that there were "no needy persons among them!"

    The real tragedy that is while most Christians have turned their collective backs on God's message contained in "The Believers Share Their Possessions," its been left to the atheists and agnostics to promote this vision of mankind!

    "there were no needy persons among them ..... it (money) was distributed to anyone who had need."
    - Acts 4:34-35


    "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"
    - Karl Marx, Critique of the Gotha Program, 1875
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  17. iarwain

    iarwain Newbie

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    Fair enough, but this is referring to a group of believers, not a nation. More akin to a monastic order than a country filled with atheists, agnostics, and members of various religion, ethnic, and cultural backgrounds. They had a common goal, and were on the same page spiritually. It's describing a group of believers, not an economic plan for a large, diverse country.

    Unfortunately, with nations historically, socialism has been closely associated with atheism. Probably because such countries tend to demand loyalty to the state, or the ruling party, as opposed to loyalty to God.
     
  18. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

    +3,099
    Methodist
    1) Conservative Christians make no apologies for supporting the Republican and packing the courts with like-minded justices - despite the fact that they don't represent the opinions held by the majority of Americans!

    2) After repealing Roe v Wade, conservative Christians have every intention of imposing their ideas concerning abortion and other religious beliefs on "atheists, agnostics, and members of various religion, ethnic, and cultural backgrounds."

    3) Conservative Christians consider American nationalism and loyalty to God to be interchangeable - this stands in marked contrast to early Christianity which was much more pacifistic in nature, discouraging its adherents from holding public office or military service, based on the premise that man can't serve 2 masters!

    4) Presumably "The Believers Share Their Possessions" while under the influence of the Holy Spirit serves a purpose - "The Greatest Commandment" is based on love of God and our "neighbors" while "The Parable of the Good Samaritan" is quite explicit that everyone should be considered our neighbor!

    5) Mankind lived in tribal societies for most of human existence, whereby the emphasis was placed on communal living and the collective - not the acquisition of private possessions and individual ambition!
     
  19. iarwain

    iarwain Newbie

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    Wow, that's a lot. I'll just pick this one out for now:

    Note that in the case of "Believers Sharing Their Possessions", everyone involved is agreeing to share their possessions. It's not a case of some of the people forcibly taking other people's possessions in order to do with them as they see fit, with the other people disagreeing. That's more like stealing.

    Then there's 2 Thessalonians 3:10: "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat." There is some value in being industrious. That's not to say we shouldn't help the poor, but there's a problem with creating a permanent welfare class.

    By the way, I am not saying that Conservative Christians represent a perfect Christ-like model to run the world with. Arguably conservatives and liberals are both needed to balance each other. But right now IMO the Right are far less dangerous than the Left, if only because the Left has too much power right now. Not because they control the executive and legislative branches, but because they also control the mainstream media, entertainment, social media, sports, technology, and corporate America. We are this close to living under a Totalitarian socialist oligarchy with a ruling elite, complete with a powerful propaganda machine eager to do their bidding.
     
  20. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    "Packing the court" is an expression that refers to the idea of adding to the number of justices on the court and the new nominees to be favorable to the President's political leanings. It does not refer to replacing a sitting justice who has died.
     
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