Do Atheists have any moral and ethical backstops?

[JustSomeBloke]

Please note, I'm not asking whether Atheists possess moral and ethical values. I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Please note, I'm not asking whether Atheists possess moral and ethical values. I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

No. And there is nothing really stopping us either, it's just we will claim "God said it" no matter if He actually did or not, maliciously or ignorantly.

 

[bèlla]

When I was agnostic my line veered further in certain areas than it does now. Admittedly, I don’t disagree with everything I liked theoretically, but I know its inappropriate.

~bella

 

[Kylie]

Please note, I'm not asking whether Atheists possess moral and ethical values. I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

I'd have to technically say that a good enough argument could get me to change my mind on various moral issues, but I can't imagine how that could possibly happen outside of cartoonish supervillainy. "The world is going to be destroyed and the only way to defuse the bomb is to torture this baby!"

Even though I believe morality is subjective, it does stem from objective (or close to) facts. Someone being beaten suffers in an objective sense, after all; their broken bones can be objectively demonstrated, as can their reaction to the pain, emotional trauma can likewise be shown to exist. Any argument that would cause me to change my views (say, get me to believe that it's acceptable to beat people and cause those things) would have to either convince me that those things don't happen, or that whatever outcome is worth having that person experience them. And I don't see that happening.

 

[zippy2006]

Please note, I'm not asking whether Atheists possess moral and ethical values. I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

What are some examples of Christian backstops that you believe atheists do not have access to? I think there probably are some, but I would like to hear you elaborate on the meaning of "backstop" along with some examples.

 

[Occams Barber]

Please note, I'm not asking whether Atheists possess moral and ethical values. I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

From my point of view morality is subjective and changes, usually slowly, with time, new circumstances and new knowledge.

It's entirely possible that I could change my mind on the morality of a particular behaviour in the light of new information or changed circumstances.

I have no backstop. I don't know why I would need one.

OB

 

[Petros2015]

I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

Are there really any backstops on anyone?
I think it's all really situational.
Someone can say, "well scripture is a backstop for Christians", but we've all seen that mangled. Human nature will use that for it's own purposes anytime it wants, and proves it's nature by doing so.

"What do you want your character and nature to be?" is one backstop, which is independent of outside consequence, and of outside influence, human or divine (assuming a divine influence isn't changing or introducing the "want" itself, which I think it is perfectly capable of doing, imho)

"What do you want your character and nature to be?" is, in fact, the most basic one, common to all humanity (though not all ask the question or arrive at the same answer). But, in the end, it's the one that led and leads me to the divine.

 

[returntosender]

Please note, I'm not asking whether Atheists possess moral and ethical values. I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

Their rights are different then ours because their beliefs are different then ours.

 

[Occams Barber]

Not to but in but what right do they have in posting in those threads that are about Christianity? It's a thorn in my side.

It may not be obvious to you, but non-Christians are restricted to a limited range of forums. The system will (literally) not allow us to post in most parts of CF. This forum, for instance, is part of a Discussion and Debate forum sub-group which is open to non-Christians. There is a separate D&D Forum where we can't post. We have no access to the denominational forums or any forum covering Christian sub-groups.

Apart from this Forum we're restricted to the social forums and the 'Outreach' type forums (because we're Outreach material )

If you're seeing too many atheist posts you're probably more interested in the topics covered in the few Forums we have access to.

Let's face it. Atheists are more interesting.

OB

 

[Occams Barber]

Their rights are different then ours because their beliefs are different then ours.

Apart from not accepting the existence of God, there are no atheist beliefs, no atheist doctrine or dogma and no atheistic morality. The only thing atheists have in common is non-acceptance of any god. Individual atheists are free to make up their own rules.

OB

 

[Petros2015]

Apart from this Forum we're restricted to the social forums and the 'Outreach' type forums (because we're Outreach material )

I know! They won't let me post in the Married Couples forum either because my status is Single.
Apparently they don't want me doing any Outreach there either

 

[Mark Quayle]

It may not be obvious to you, but non-Christians are restricted to a limited range of forums. The system will (literally) not allow us to post in most parts of CF. This forum, for instance, is part of a Discussion and Debate forum sub-group which is open to non-Christians. There is a separate D&D Forum where we can't post. We have no access to the denominational forums or any forum covering Christian sub-groups.

Apart from this Forum we're restricted to the social forums and the 'Outreach' type forums (because we're Outreach material )

If you're seeing too many atheist posts you're probably more interested in the topics covered in the few Forums we have access to.

Let's face it. Atheists are more interesting.

OB

Are you able to read but not post to those other forums, or no access at all?

 

[Occams Barber]

Are you able to read but not post to those other forums, or no access at all?

We can read but not post - similar access to any non-registered visitor or lurker. We also get a big yellow flag pop-up reminding us we're in a no-go zone.

It's amusing to occasionally come across a thread where we (atheists) are being discussed by posters who obviously have no clue about atheist 'beliefs'.

OB

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Even though I believe morality is subjective, it does stem from objective (or close to) facts. Someone being beaten suffers in an objective sense, after all; their broken bones can be objectively demonstrated, as can their reaction to the pain, emotional trauma can likewise be shown to exist. Any argument that would cause me to change my views (say, get me to believe that it's acceptable to beat people and cause those things) would have to either convince me that those things don't happen, or that whatever outcome is worth having that person experience them. And I don't see that happening.

It's never that simple. Just ask someone who is into BDSM.

What are some examples of Christian backstops that you believe atheists do not have access to? I think there probably are some, but I would like to hear you elaborate on the meaning of "backstop" along with some examples.

Read the Bible. There are plenty of backstops. But that is not really what this thread is about.

I have no backstop. I don't know why I would need one.

Have you ever heard of the Milgram Experiment? It's surprising what some people will do.

Are there really any backstops on anyone?
I think it's all really situational.
Someone can say, "well scripture is a backstop for Christians", but we've all seen that mangled. Human nature will use that for it's own purposes anytime it wants, and proves it's nature by doing so.

"What do you want your character and nature to be?" is one backstop, which is independent of outside consequence, and of outside influence, human or divine (assuming a divine influence isn't changing or introducing the "want" itself, which I think it is perfectly capable of doing, imho)

"What do you want your character and nature to be?" is, in fact, the most basic one, common to all humanity (though not all ask the question or arrive at the same answer). But, in the end, it's the one that led and leads me to the divine.

I'd like to think that most Christians don't mangle scripture. Or at least not those that know what is written in the Bible. However, in recent years I think a lot of churches are in reality, little more than woke, social clubs, and that often means mangled scripture.

 

[Occams Barber]

Have you ever heard of the Milgram Experiment? It's surprising what some people will do.

I have a degree in psychology. I'm quite familiar with the Milgram experiment. I don't see the connection to 'backstop' in fact I don't really understand what you mean by backstop. My morality is what I determine it to be. I have no rule book to fall back on.

OB

 

[Bradskii]

Please note, I'm not asking whether Atheists possess moral and ethical values. I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

Do you mean is there anything that would prevent me changing my mind on any given moral matter? I don't think so. The older I get the more willing I am to listen to other views. But...the more views I have listened to have only strengthened the decisions I have eventually reached.

 

[returntosender]

We can read but not post - similar access to any non-registered visitor or lurker. We also get a big yellow flag pop-up reminding us we're in a no-go zone.

It's amusing to occasionally come across a thread where we (atheists) are being discussed by posters who obviously have no clue about atheist 'beliefs'.

OB

"We"? That's to bad, you have such a neat name.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I have corresponded, and one anti theist thinks no afterlife makes them take this one more seriously. And keeping the peace is important. They avoid the kind of things that lead to over passion, like the build to Nazi Germany. Too much love of your own kindred. Gene prejudice and bias... the idea we are superior to them. Important to see eye to eye with coloured people if possible. Avoiding wars and fights like the thirty years war, Northern Ireland, and other religious violence, even thinking Nazism was religious.

 

[Kylie]

It's never that simple. Just ask someone who is into BDSM.

I agree, and this serves only as a starting point.

For example, if I see someone struggling to reverse park their car, I may offer to do it for them. But if they say to me, "Thanks, but I want to do it myself so I can learn the skill," then I'll accept it and leave them to it.

Read the Bible. There are plenty of backstops. But that is not really what this thread is about.

I think the question is valid, and saying, "Read the Bible," is basically just saying go find it for yourself. The Bible is a massive text, and searching through it would take a long time. Providing one or two examples would be the decent thing for you to do, I think.

 

[Estrid]

Please note, I'm not asking whether Atheists possess moral and ethical values. I'm asking whether there are any backstops that prevent atheists from deciding that behaviours that are currently considered immoral and unethical, are now morally and ethically acceptable.

Isnt this topic generally aimed at
showing atheists to be morally inferior to believers?