Do as You're Told

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

I suppose you might regard this as tongue in cheek but I do regard our attitude to be of extreme importance in our relationship with God. I do not believe that we can pick and choose between what's important and what is not. We must be guided by the Holy Spirit and the word of God.

Having said that, let me share a life story about how we respond to those things commanded of us.

Quite often, when I leave home for work in the morning I will light heartedly say to my wife, "Bye babe [or some other affectionate name]. See you later. Be good."

Sometimes in fun she responds, "What else can I be?"

"No options," I say, "Just do as you're told."

While all this is in fun and I have no reason to think my wife would do otherwise, it led me to think the other day how affected our relationship with God is by ungodly counsel.

When God commands we reason it away often not realising that we have done so.

Consider the temptation of Eve and how the serpent reasoned away the command that God gave to Adam. Look at it and take note. See how Balaam sought to get around the command of God not to curse but to bless. He sought to tempt Israel to sin so that they might bring a curse upon themselves. God held Balaam guilty of sin and all who follow this path will not inherit everlasting life.

I will honestly admit that a large portion of my relationship with God is doing as I'm told. Do I always get it right? Most likely not. Am I trying to curry favour? Undoubtedly he blesses me in many ways but it is not the purpose of my obedience without question. I do it because he loves me and I love him and his will is not "grievous unto me." [from the song I Delight to do Thy Will based Psalm 40:8.] My heart is set on doing what God wants.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.

That is the sum of it. To let God be God and to be in charge. I can just do as I am told. I don't need bad advice that suggests I should disobey God. I don't need to exercise freedom of choice. I am happy to obey him and he is happy for me to do so.

Let all who are called by Christ have this mind.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Shalom
This is a meaty word, to be sure!

However, I really don't think the headship in that verse is to do with being told what to do, that a man gets to be the boss; but rather, he actually has a responsibility to his wife: to protect her, love her, defend her, be loyal to her.

I'm pretty sure I knew how to conduct myself before I got married, right? I didn't suddenly forget how to do stuff because of marriage, lol; but after my wedding, I was supposed to have more protection from my husband against the very unjust system that this world runs in. If my husband is on a power trip, it's far less likely that I will get that protection. I may just be the one to need some protection from him!

Be good? Do as you are told? That's for all of us, because we are all individually accountable to God. My husband will not be judged by my actions, good or bad, but he will be judged on his actions towards me, and vice versa. If I get judged because my hubby has severe ego issues, that's a problem!

Sadly, human beings do this all the time. We make assumptions and we say that she's that way because of him, or he's that way because of her - because we don't have access to the inexhaustible knowledge that is contained in the mind of God,. And if we did have it, we'd be off trying to fuse jetpacks onto a bodysuit so we could zoom around the planet without the need for cars, or come up with ice cream that make you lose weight. (Sorry, I really have to pray on that one, I'm sure God can give me the secret for it!)

My point is:

As Sarai said to Abraham: "Let the Lord judge between you and me." They are called to be one union, but they are still capable of making independent decisions that affect one another BECAUSE they are one union, regardless of outside assumptions or their surrounding environment/social climate.

I think this one area we all struggle in. Men can be puffed up with pride and egotism and women can develop an inferiority complex. Neither is healthy. Unlike weight loss ice cream. Dibs on the patent.

You can trust your wife to be good for a reason, just like she can trust you. It's a two way thing, and it's a win/win. That's the beauty of marriage. No one gets stepped on. That's awesome!

It's really cute the way you guys can talk to each other like that. Continue to be blessed in your marriage.

Shalom!

 

[LaSorcia]

I wonder why I never see men creating threads rebuking other husbands to love their wives sacrificially, with some examples on how to do this.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

I suppose you might regard this as tongue in cheek but I do regard our attitude to be of extreme importance in our relationship with God. I do not believe that we can pick and choose between what's important and what is not. We must be guided by the Holy Spirit and the word of God.

Having said that, let me share a life story about how we respond to those things commanded of us.

Quite often, when I leave home for work in the morning I will light heartedly say to my wife, "Bye babe [or some other affectionate name]. See you later. Be good."

Sometimes in fun she responds, "What else can I be?"

"No options," I say, "Just do as you're told."

While all this is in fun and I have no reason to think my wife would do otherwise, it led me to think the other day how affected our relationship with God is by ungodly counsel.

When God commands we reason it away often not realising that we have done so.

Consider the temptation of Eve and how the serpent reasoned away the command that God gave to Adam. Look at it and take note. See how Balaam sought to get around the command of God not to curse but to bless. He sought to tempt Israel to sin so that they might bring a curse upon themselves. God held Balaam guilty of sin and all who follow this path will not inherit everlasting life.

I will honestly admit that a large portion of my relationship with God is doing as I'm told. Do I always get it right? Most likely not. Am I trying to curry favour? Undoubtedly he blesses me in many ways but it is not the purpose of my obedience without question. I do it because he loves me and I love him and his will is not "grievous unto me." [from the song I Delight to do Thy Will based Psalm 40:8.] My heart is set on doing what God wants.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.

That is the sum of it. To let God be God and to be in charge. I can just do as I am told. I don't need bad advice that suggests I should disobey God. I don't need to exercise freedom of choice. I am happy to obey him and he is happy for me to do so.

Let all who are called by Christ have this mind.

I do not quite see it that way. God knows our hearts and just as Cain came with a contentious heart before God so could we harness such contempt when we are " told" what to do. The way I see it, once convicted of sin , it becomes natural to uphold our repentance. We change our mind and no longer desire to do the things that are unrighteous. It is not so much we do what we are "told "but rather ,we do the right thing because we have "put on a new nature" through the power of the Holy Spirit given to us by Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Be blessed.

 

[Soyeong]

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

I suppose you might regard this as tongue in cheek but I do regard our attitude to be of extreme importance in our relationship with God. I do not believe that we can pick and choose between what's important and what is not. We must be guided by the Holy Spirit and the word of God.

Having said that, let me share a life story about how we respond to those things commanded of us.

Quite often, when I leave home for work in the morning I will light heartedly say to my wife, "Bye babe [or some other affectionate name]. See you later. Be good."

Sometimes in fun she responds, "What else can I be?"

"No options," I say, "Just do as you're told."

While all this is in fun and I have no reason to think my wife would do otherwise, it led me to think the other day how affected our relationship with God is by ungodly counsel.

When God commands we reason it away often not realising that we have done so.

Consider the temptation of Eve and how the serpent reasoned away the command that God gave to Adam. Look at it and take note. See how Balaam sought to get around the command of God not to curse but to bless. He sought to tempt Israel to sin so that they might bring a curse upon themselves. God held Balaam guilty of sin and all who follow this path will not inherit everlasting life.

I will honestly admit that a large portion of my relationship with God is doing as I'm told. Do I always get it right? Most likely not. Am I trying to curry favour? Undoubtedly he blesses me in many ways but it is not the purpose of my obedience without question. I do it because he loves me and I love him and his will is not "grievous unto me." [from the song I Delight to do Thy Will based Psalm 40:8.] My heart is set on doing what God wants.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.

That is the sum of it. To let God be God and to be in charge. I can just do as I am told. I don't need bad advice that suggests I should disobey God. I don't need to exercise freedom of choice. I am happy to obey him and he is happy for me to do so.

Let all who are called by Christ have this mind.

In theory, God could have commanded any laws that He wanted, however, our relationship with God is not based upon doing anything that God could have commanded us to do, but that the laws that God chose to give were specifically chosen because they teach us how to walk in His ways by experiencing the nature of who He is, or in other words, how to grow in a relationship with Him through gaining experiential knowledge of Him. For example, God is merciful, so when take actions that express our love for mercy, we are gaining experiential knowledge of who God is we, are loving the nature of who God is, and we are testifying about what we believe about who God is, or in other word, we are believing in Him. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not experientially know God and refused to know him because in 9:13, they had forsaken God's law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in walking in God's ways by expressing those and other aspects of His nature is the way to grow in a relationship with God, and with Christ, who is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3).

In Genesis 18:19, God experientially knew Abraham that he may command his children and those of His household to walk in the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice so that the Lord may bring to Abraham all that he has promised him, namely that through his offspring all of the nations of the earth would be blessed. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will bless all of the nations of the earth because Abraham obeyed His voice and kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to Him by making known to him His ways so that he might know Him, and to consider the Israelites too. In Psalms 119:1, blessed are those who walk in the way of the Lord, in 119:29, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and to choose to way of righteousness, and there are many verses that describe God's law as being the way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. God's law is how the offspring of Abraham knew of to be blessed, so teaching the nations to turn from their wicked ways and how to walk in God's ways is the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham, which has its ultimate fulfillment in Jesus, who was sent to bless us by turning us from our wicked ways (Acts 3:25-26).

The law of first mention is a principle where the first time that a word is used helps us to correctly understand it, and in this case, the first use of "the way" is in Genesis 3:24 in regard to an angel guarding the way to the tree of life with a drawn sword, which is a theme throughout the Bible. In 2 Chronicles 6:31, it says that they may fear God, to walk in His ways, as long as they live in the land which He gave to their fathers. In Proverbs 3:23, the commandment is a lamp, and the law is a light; reproofs of instruction are the way of life. In Proverbs 12:28, the way of righteousness is life. In Matthew 7:14, for the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life. In John 14:6, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

In regard to Balaam, in Numbers 22:22, God's anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the Lord too his stand in the way of his adversary and the donkey saw the Angel with a drawn sword and turned out of the way into the field. In Numbers 22:26, the Angel of the Lord, went further and stood in a narrow place (maqom) where there is no way to turn. In Numbers 22:32, the Angel of Lord said that Balaam's way is perverse to him. In Exodus 22:30, behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way to bring you to the place (maqom) that I have prepared. So indeed, those who follow the way of Balaam will not inherit eternal life.

 

[ViaCrucis]

"the head of Christ is God"

Is the Son less than the Father in any way? The answer is no. The Son is not less than the Father, the Son is co-equal with the Father.

We confess our faith in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, begotten not made. God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God. Homoousios with the Father.

We confess Christ, Very God, Eternal, Infinite.

The trouble with "headship" in the way it is sometimes treated here reveals a very poor theology.

If "headship" results in demoting the Eternal Logos, there's a serious theological problem. And if in trying to make women submissive to men requires heretical Christology, then the problem should be immediately obvious.

But we confess the one Lord Jesus Christ, eternally begotten of the Father, Homoousios with the Father. True and very Almighty God. Christ's outpouring of Himself in love out of obedience to the Father does not come from a place of hypostatic or (heaven forbid) ontological less-ness; but rather out of a free and voluntary expression of the Son's love for the Father. Even as the Father out of a free and voluntary expression of love gives Himself wholly to His Son. So we behold in the Mystery of the Trinity that the Three-and-One gives of Himself freely, One to Another; mutually, reciprocally. In the same way the Apostle teaches in Ephesians chapters 5 and 6 that in the Church we submit to one another, freely and voluntarily out of love, out of our devotion to Jesus Christ. It is within this voluntary and free giving of ourselves to one another in love that wives give themselves to their husbands, and also that husbands give themselves to their wives. Husbands loving their wives--serving their wives, in the same way that Christ loved and served--becoming the Servant of Servants--for His Church. In the same way children should obey their parents, and parents ought to love and support and give themselves to their children in love. The Apostle also dismantles the social stratification of slave and master, calling slaves to obey their masters, but then calling on masters to do the same to their slaves. That the master is to become slave.

The Apostle is not interested in stratification and hierarchies of power; but with the Fatihful meeting one another in love as members of the Body of Christ. To have and boldly express their koinonia together as God's People, giving themselves to one another; and then also to give themselves to the world even as Christ gives Himself to the world in love and sacrifice.

The point is never about power.
The point is always about love.
It's always about Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Thank you all for your replies, sorry to those who feel I am pushing the human down, or even Jesus Christ.

If you read it again you will note that it is actually about my relationship with my Father, who is God. He is my Father and it is expected that he will command me. Jesus called him his Father too, so he subjected himself and obeyed. In short: he did as he was told.

But like me he said what I said, which was what he said, "I enjoy doing what you want, o God."

Frankly I don't see anything evil in that. He doesn't want me to sin so I don't want to sin and he gives me the power not to by the new nature he put in me through faith in Jesus Christ.

What if I get it wrong?

He's my Father so I know I can say, "Sorry I did that," and he will forgive me. Not only that but he will give me the power never to do it again if I will trust him.

What if I haven't realised that I did something wrong?

He's my Father. He may have to speak to me sharply or discipline me in some other way but everything he does is to protect me so that no harm comes to me. It may hurt, but I will not be harmed.

I trust him and I know him so I know that everything he commands is for my benefit and that he loves me no matter what.

If I were to consider my relationship with my wife I would do so through the word of God that instructs me. We have been married 41 years.

Think of the many, sometimes silly, reasons couples divorce and break up, do you think I have not suffered any of these? I would not have lived if I had not.

What was the difference? I love her and have always been determined to forgive and overcome these.

It has not always been easy but I am determined. I do not allow anything to come between us.

You could say that I say to her as Jesus spoke to his Church, "No one shall pluck you from my hand."

I have quite literally died for her. All my dreams; my ambitions; my hopes and possessions have been surrendered for her.

Do I sound like as husband who demands submission from his wife? I am saddened that anyone should think so. I love her, and in many respects it wouldn't matter whether she did or not. It would not change my passion for her. My beloved is mine and I am hers yet, still, I am happy to do what God tells me and to simply "do as I'm told."

It does not make me better than anyone else, its not about that. Its all about the fact that my Father and I love each other. I dote on him and would do anything he asked.

Why is that hard and, why does it sound like works for salvation?

I no longer need to be saved. He has done that through Jesus Christ whom I have believed in.

These are not my works, they are His works and I am simply doing what he tells me to. That's it.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

I wonder why I never see men creating threads rebuking other husbands to love their wives sacrificially, with some examples on how to do this.

Its a real shame you missed the point of my conversation, which had nothing to do with my wife's submission but my relationship with Father God. There was no rebuke here.

Ought husbands to love their wives? Absolutely. Do I love mine? Read what I wrote above and make your own judgement. Perhaps you may find a lesson in there husbands would do well to observe.

What a shame we feel the need to beat on each other!

Would a wife be a wife without a husband or, would a husband be a husband without a wife? They are interdependent on each other and neither one could be without the other. Herein is equality when you understand that each one makes the other to be what they are.

I have not, nor will I break the covenant I made with the wife of my youth. I love her too much for that and have already paid many a price to preserve it.

I would (and not only I, but God also) that all husbands be as I am.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Its a real shame you missed the point of my conversation, which had nothing to do with my wife's submission but my relationship with Father God. There was no rebuke here.

Ought husbands to love their wives? Absolutely. Do I love mine? Read what I wrote above and make your own judgement. Perhaps you may find a lesson in there husbands would do well to observe.

What a shame we feel the need to beat on each other!

Would a wife be a wife without a husband or, would a husband be a husband without a wife? They are interdependent on each other and neither one could be without the other. Herein is equality when you understand that each one makes the other to be what they are.

I have not, nor will I break the covenant I made with the wife of my youth. I love her too much for that and have already paid many a price to preserve it.

I would (and not only I, but God also) that all husbands be as I am.

To be fair, it did sound a lot like one of those 'wives submit' discussions, lol. You do have to admit, there are a lot of those out there! But like I said in my previous reply, it does seem like you and your wife do have a good relationship. However, I do think we can all agree that the best of a husband is and always will be Christ - we are the bride, after all!

I think just we have read into the OP something other than intended, you have misinterpreted our replies. We weren't beating on you, just making our individual positions on the subject clear (although we misunderstood exactly what the subject was).

Be blessed