do any of you believe tongues are necessary

[brinny]

Jesus entering our heart does not complete salvation then?

 

[Lively Stone]

Jesus entering our heart does not complete salvation then?

Complete? Yes, He completely saves us when He comes into our lives.

 

[brinny]

Complete? Yes, He completely saves us when He comes into our lives.

confused.

 

[Lively Stone]

confused.

Hi, Brinny...what is confusing you, dear?

Christians in the New Testament all were saved and then received the baptism of the Holy Spirit---as God's special anointing on them. He pours in His Spirit with such liberality that it is said that we are filled to overflowing.

He gifts those He saves, and wants to empower us to move in our giftings with His power, with ease and with great results. It is an added and powerful blessing of God on us and it is something we should seek after. Sometimes it happens to people without them asking for it!

In my case, I was saved many years before I received it.

 

[brinny]

in His presence we have all that we need....it is finished.....His Spirit dwells in us, not partially, but in the full.

 

[Lively Stone]

in His presence we have all that we need....it is finished.....His Spirit dwells in us, not partially, but in the full.

Yes He does, but then there is the added bonus of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, mentioned many times in scripture. All NT Christians experienced it from Pentecost on.

 

[brinny]

Yes He does, but then there is the added bonus of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, mentioned many times in scripture. All NT Christians experienced it from Pentecost on.

hungering for Him, seeking His face, and loving Him with all our hearts is not enough then?

 

[andreha]

hungering for Him, seeking His face, and loving Him with all our hearts is not enough then?

Don't worry Brinny - the above is enough indeed. Remember, speaking in tongues is one of the spiritual gifts. There is one gift that is supreme to all by far - and that is love. The gifts of the Spirit are signs of baptism by the Spirit - and you already reflect the love of God. That is the greatest gift of all.

 

[Lively Stone]

hungering for Him, seeking His face, and loving Him with all our hearts is not enough then?

It is all enough indeed! However, there is more of Him available to you and God desires to give it.

 

[ARBITER01]

Hi, Brinny...what is confusing you, dear?

Christians in the New Testament all were saved and then received the baptism of the Holy Spirit---as God's special anointing on them. He pours in His Spirit with such liberality that it is said that we are filled to overflowing.

He gifts those He saves, and wants to empower us to move in our giftings with His power, with ease and with great results. It is an added and powerful blessing of God on us and it is something we should seek after. Sometimes it happens to people without them asking for it!

In my case, I was saved many years before I received it.

Not to quench your ambition here, but we experience our immersion into the Holy Spirit when we are born again. Any further experiences with Him would be just greater fillings inside for those gifts to manifest through us in faith, etc. Scripturally, there is not another immersion of The Holy Spirit listed, or some filling to overflowing which is considered some sort of baptism/immersion.

That phrase "baptism of The Holy Spirit" is really taken out of context by so many churches over the decades.

 

[Lively Stone]

Not to quench your ambition here, but we experience our immersion into the Holy Spirit when we are born again.

Some do, but most receive the infilling at a subsequent time. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and it is written about in the Bible as such, and is separate from the salvation experience..

Any further experiences with Him would be just greater fillings inside for those gifts to manifest through us in faith, etc. Scripturally, there is not another immersion of The Holy Spirit listed, or some filling to overflowing which is considered some sort of baptism/immersion.

That phrase "baptism of The Holy Spirit" is really taken out of context by so many churches over the decades.

Actually, many churches lump it all together with salvation where the scriptures do not.

 

[ARBITER01]

Some do, but most receive the infilling at a subsequent time. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and it is written about in the Bible as such, and is separate from the salvation experience..

We receive The Holy Spirit at our rebirth,..

Act 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We don't become born again and receive The Holy Spirit sometime later, He is given us right at our birth.

 

[Svt4Him]

We receive The Holy Spirit at our rebirth,..



We don't become born again and receive The Holy Spirit sometime later, He is given us right at our birth.

True enough, but there is a difference between being born again and being baptised in power. The disciples received the Spirit of God when Jesus breathed on them, they received the baptism from the Holy Spirit after that. Two different events.

 

[ARBITER01]

True enough, but there is a difference between being born again and being baptised in power. The disciples received the Spirit of God when Jesus breathed on them, they received the baptism from the Holy Spirit after that. Two different events.

Jesus was not authorized to give The Holy Spirit to anyone at that point. He had to be raised up and seated at the right hand of GOD before The Holy Spirit was poured out to mankind, as Peter says,..

Act 2:33 Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear.

This did not happen before acts 2.

 

[JEBrady]

The Samaritans received Christ and were baptized (in water) when Philip came and preached to them the gospel and worked many works of power among them.

When the church at Jerusalem heard the report, they sent Peter and John to lay hands on them so they could receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It was a separate event.

When I was born again, I received the indwelling Spirit, it was glorious and I knew I had been born again in my spirit. Years later, I had hands laid on me and received the baptism in the Spirit, and spoke with other tongues. I also began to pray in the spirit during devotions, and prophesied during prayer, and also worked gifts of healings. I didn't ever need to have hands laid on me for those things again, because I had received the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Of the thousands and thousands that received Christ at hearing the preaching of Billy Graham, how many ever spoke in tongues when they received?

 

[ARBITER01]

The Samaritans received Christ and were baptized (in water) when Philip came and preached to them the gospel and worked many works of power among them.

When the church at Jerusalem heard the report, they sent Peter and John to lay hands on them so they could receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It was a separate event.

When I was born again, I received the indwelling Spirit, it was glorious and I knew I had been born again in my spirit. Years later, I had hands laid on me and received the baptism in the Spirit, and spoke with other tongues. I also began to pray in the spirit during devotions, and prophesied during prayer, and also worked gifts of healings. I didn't ever need to have hands laid on me for those things again, because I had received the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Of the thousands and thousands that received Christ at hearing the preaching of Billy Graham, how many ever spoke in tongues when they received?

Sorry, there is no additional baptism in the Spirit a person receives, it's not in scripture. They do receive additional fillings, that can be found in scripture.

Just because it's a church teaching that sounds so good for all these years, doesn't mean it was ever correct from the start.

 

[JEBrady]

Sorry, there is no additional baptism in the Spirit a person receives, it's not in scripture. They do receive additional fillings, that can be found in scripture.

Just because it's a church teaching that sounds so good for all these years, doesn't mean it was ever correct from the start.

Can I assume that if you had any insight on the scripture I posted you would have included it, or are you just being dogmatic?

 

[ARBITER01]

Can I assume that if you had any insight on the scripture I posted you would have included it, or are you just being dogmatic?

Maybe I'm more concerned about being scripturally correct.

There is no example in scripture of a born again Christian receiving a secondary immersion in The Holy Spirit.

 

[Svt4Him]

Jesus was not authorized to give The Holy Spirit to anyone at that point. He had to be raised up and seated at the right hand of GOD before The Holy Spirit was poured out to mankind, as Peter says,..



This did not happen before acts 2.

You may need to tell that to Him then:

And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Not only that, but there are times where Paul was filled with the Spirit and began to preach, which, if this happened at salvation, becomes a redundant saying. The verse above is so clear, but there is more:

The Believers Pray

23 On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 25 You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:

“‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord
and against his anointed one.

27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. 29 Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

Who was all filled with the Holy Spirit? The believers, again. So yes, they did receive the Holy Spirit when they were saved, but they did not recieve the baptism of power until after...and it seems they received it again.

 

[JEBrady]

Maybe I'm more concerned about being scripturally correct.

There is no example in scripture of a born again Christian receiving a secondary immersion in The Holy Spirit.

I'd assume we're all concerned with being scripturally correct in the absence of anything blatantly to the contrary.

Would you like to expound on the Acts 8 passage? I'd like to hear how you harmonize that with your position.