Do angels have free-will?

SingularityOne

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 4, 2018
1,478
861
28
Nashville
✟538,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
yes, but once they sin, they fall and since they are noetic, there is no repentance.

Ah, so they are "pure intellect" (unless I'm misunderstanding what noetic means) and they have a free-will too. However, I'm still not understanding why they cannot repent. Would you please help me understand why this is?
 
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,459
8,968
Florida
✟321,876.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
It would seem to me that they do, but I don't want to rely on my own understanding and want to know what the Church believes. I haven't been able to find an answer about the Church dogma on this online directly.

Yes, angels have free will.

Jde 1:6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Orthodoxy holds to the belief in demons who are angels who rebelled of their own free will.
 
Upvote 0

Pethesedzao

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2018
772
312
66
Bristol
✟17,354.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
It would seem to me that they do, but I don't want to rely on my own understanding and want to know what the Church believes. I haven't been able to find an answer about the Church dogma on this online directly.
God created angels in eternity long long before He created mankind. Lucifer rebelled against God...
 
Upvote 0

Pethesedzao

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2018
772
312
66
Bristol
✟17,354.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
Ah, so they are "pure intellect" (unless I'm misunderstanding what noetic means) and they have a free-will too. However, I'm still not understanding why they cannot repent. Would you please help me understand why this is?
I will be judging angels in time to come
 
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Ah, so they are "pure intellect" (unless I'm misunderstanding what noetic means) and they have a free-will too. However, I'm still not understanding why they cannot repent. Would you please help me understand why this is?

because of how they are created. unlike man, they knew the full scope of what would happen if they rebelled because angelic time is different than our material, successive time.
 
Upvote 0

SingularityOne

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 4, 2018
1,478
861
28
Nashville
✟538,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
because of how they are created. unlike man, they knew the full scope of what would happen if they rebelled because angelic time is different than our material, successive time.

Ah, so they experience time as God experiences time; all at once?
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,006
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,938.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
It would seem to me that they do, but I don't want to rely on my own understanding and want to know what the Church believes. I haven't been able to find an answer about the Church dogma on this online directly.
I find your question relevant because it deals too with humanity.

Notice the fallen angels, since that first rebellion, apparently never again repent. And those that did not join them, but remained faithful, apparently never rebelled since. I am not going to say that the angels ever had Free Will --certainly not on the Sovereign level that God does. Nor am I going to say they never had Free Will --certainly not on our level, set about by all kinds of influences and restrictions.

And really this is how it is with us. Because they, whether by their own choice or by inability, no longer decide to do other than according to what identifies them. The devil and his demons always hate God and his work. The angels always obey and serve God, loving him and his creatures. So we too, the unrepentant, in every good or evil deed and thought are committed to rebellion toward God. Not saying that they are as evil as they could be, but that everything they do or think has evil pervasive to their agenda. The redeemed however, are free to obey --a freedom the unredeemed does not have.

Unlike the redeemed believers, the angels apparently never sin --perhaps don't even need a conscience in the same way humans do. I have every reason to believe that redeemed humans will have a place higher in heaven, and be more glorified than any angel, and conversely, the unredeemed will be worse than any demon, God having removed all his virtue from them and leaving them with nothing by which to commend themselves to anyone. They will not look how they seem now. I do not believe Satan rules the Lake of Fire. It was prepared for his punishment, and for those who reject God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SingularityOne

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 4, 2018
1,478
861
28
Nashville
✟538,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
no, but not successively as we do. time for them began, but there is no materiality to them.

Okay, thank you. So they are, in a sense, “between God and man”, in a way, in experiencing time? (E.g. God has no beginning and experiences time as eternal and is outside of time; angels are within time but experience time from the beginning of their creation until the end of time, non-successively; and we experience time successively). Yes?
 
Upvote 0

Barney2.0

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 1, 2017
6,003
2,336
Los Angeles
✟451,221.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Jews and Muslims believe Angels have no free will and are thus too pure to fall. Jews believe Satan is an angel who is simply doing the "job" appointed to him by God obediently. Muslims believe Satan is an enemy of God like Christians except that he was a Jinn not an Angel. Jinn in Islam are a third race of beings that are not Angels are humans, but are similar to humans in the sense of having free will and possessing their own religions and societies. As according to Islamic belief there are Muslims Jinn, Christian ones, Zoroastrian ones, pagan ones, and etc each with their own families, tribes and rulers. Belief in Jinn is what sets Islam apart from Judaism and Christianity and this belief in a third race of mischievous spirit beings seems to have its origins in pre Islamic Arab paganism and Persian Zoroastrianism. However the Christian idea of Angels having free will seems to be the most logical one, considering that the concept of Angels having no free will can be easily refuted from either the Bible or Quran. In the Bible and Quran the Angels seemingly express emotions and the ability to ask questions or talk back to God, something beings with no free will wouldn't normally be able to do. If Satan had no free will as an Angel in the Bible he wouldn't have been able to challenge God by breaking his servant Job as we see in the book of Job. And strangely enough in the Quran the Angels were not only able to reply to God, but also question him during his creation of mankind:

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know." [2:30]

So as we can see Judaism and Islam has no origin for its belief in Angels not having free will and contradicts its own scriptures (the Old Testament and Quran).
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,470
20,026
41
Earth
✟1,456,009.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Okay, thank you. So they are, in a sense, “between God and man”, in a way, in experiencing time? (E.g. God has no beginning and experiences time as eternal and is outside of time; angels are within time but experience time from the beginning of their creation until the end of time, non-successively; and we experience time successively). Yes?

yeah, that sounds close. it's not something to go crazy trying to figure out, as how angels experience time is beyond our comprehension.
 
Upvote 0

SingularityOne

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 4, 2018
1,478
861
28
Nashville
✟538,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
yeah, that sounds close. it's not something to go crazy trying to figure out, as how angels experience time is beyond our comprehension.

I hear you, that makes sense. Thanks for the insight!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ArmyMatt
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums