Do all Fundamentalist believe in a Pre Trib Rapture

JES1023

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So after being involved in 2 Independent Baptist Churches and knowing of their teaching of the Pre Trib Rapture I was wondering is this normal for a fundamentalist view of Bible? As the more I have learn of this subject it is a different view by miles of my understanding.
 

faroukfarouk

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So after being involved in 2 Independent Baptist Churches and knowing of their teaching of the Pre Trib Rapture I was wondering is this normal for a fundamentalist view of Bible? As the more I have learn of this subject it is a different view by miles of my understanding.
Hi; coming to the earth in power and glory and judgment (e.g., Matthew 24) and coming to the air for His church (e.g., 1 Thess. 4) seem to be contextual distinctions. It's not a matter of what 'all fundamentalists believe' but of what the contexts of such passages seem to indicate.
 
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mark kennedy

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So after being involved in 2 Independent Baptist Churches and knowing of their teaching of the Pre Trib Rapture I was wondering is this normal for a fundamentalist view of Bible? As the more I have learn of this subject it is a different view by miles of my understanding.
It's commonly believed among modern fundamentalists, usually you hear it as a warning. Jesus could come at any time, better get ready or you'll be left behind. On CBN one time I heard a guy describing how he went to a Hollywood movie which was strictly forbidden in his church. He says he was afraid Jesus would come back while he was at this movie and he would miss the rapture, he was pretty young at the time.

I personally think the rapture coincides with the sounding of the seventh trumpet. This view is a kind of post tribulation, pre-wrath rapture. In other words after the abomination that causes desolation which is half way through the tribulation and before the vials of wrath bring what is know as the Great Tribulation.

Dispensationalism has some other problems, they have the seals, trumpets and vials of wrath running together. This confuses the narrative and causes all kinds of expositional problems that confuses the issues. While it's important to warn believers to be ready at all times, but I don't think scaring them into thinking they will miss the rapture is healthy. If you come to saving faith in Christ your ready no matter when he comes.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Radagast

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knowing of their teaching of the Pre Trib Rapture I was wondering is this normal for a fundamentalist view of Bible?

It depends what you mean by "fundamentalist," but some are Pre-Trib and others not.
 
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JLB777

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So after being involved in 2 Independent Baptist Churches and knowing of their teaching of the Pre Trib Rapture I was wondering is this normal for a fundamentalist view of Bible? As the more I have learn of this subject it is a different view by miles of my understanding.


There is no hint of any "pre-trib rapture in the bible.


The rapture takes place after the resurrection, at His coming.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18


  • And the dead in Christ will rise first.
  • Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

JLB
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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So after being involved in 2 Independent Baptist Churches and knowing of their teaching of the Pre Trib Rapture I was wondering is this normal for a fundamentalist view of Bible? As the more I have learn of this subject it is a different view by miles of my understanding.

No. But your point of reference has been limited to baptist and that may be why you are experiencing a difference between what Scripture says and what you are being told to believe.
 
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mark kennedy

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John MacArthur making rapture teaching clear and biblical...

John MacArthur has done some great expositions, this isn't his best work. He talks about how the church isn't mentioned after the fourth chapter, ok so who are these people?

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” (Rev. 6:9-10)
They die for the word of God and for their testimony, no, they are not specifically called they church. But that's a pretty good description of what you would expect the church to be doing during the tribulation. He talks about how if the church isn't raptured who will inhabit the Millennial kingdom, there will be no one left alive after the rapture. So why won't there be anyone left alive, the antichrist and the false prophet are left alive. The other kings who are the heads of the beast are left alive. Not everyone in the world dies at the end of the tribulation just the armies of the antichrist and apparently the kings of the east.

And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose up before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it to the earth; and there were rolls of thunder, and rumblings, and flashes of lightning, and an earthquake. And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to sound them (Rev. 8:4-6)
This is just prior to the sounding of the trumpets, which is the half way mark, also the time when Israel repents. Personally I think it makes a lot of sense that the church and Israel are raptured together, because there is one body of Christ. In the time leading from the last trumpet to the pouring out of the vials of wrath the church is in heaven. This doesn't happen suddenly at the end, the wedding feast of the Lamb goes on perhaps for years prior to the return of Christ with his church.

In those days a wedding was just taking the vows and going on a honeymoon. It went on for days, everything had to be ready. The Song of Songs describes such a wedding, two young people being married in his court. It should be called a Wedding Song of Solomon but that's beside the point. They had responsibilities, she took care of the family garden and the groom had to make sure the house was finished. Then when everything was ready, they could take the final vows.

There is also a celebration going on on the earth, the beast rising up out of a sea of people. They are chanting who is like the beast, who can make war with the beast. They have survived the trumpet blasts, they are decapitating anyone who doesn't worship his image. Babylon is taking in his plunder and living in lavish luxury. And here is the thing, she is drunk with the blood of the saints, the antichrist is making war with the saints. After the rapture they are just having a big party, with most of the fighting actually ceased.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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No. But your point of reference has been limited to baptist and that may be why you are experiencing a difference between what Scripture says and what you are being told to believe.
Baptists are almost exclusively Dispensationalist, I've never seen one that even took seriously a post tribulation rapture. A pre-trib. rapture is very common among fundamentalists and evangelical, post trib. scenarios would be far less common.
 
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JES1023

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No. But your point of reference has been limited to baptist and that may be why you are experiencing a difference between what Scripture says and what you are being told to believe.

Baptists are almost exclusively Dispensationalist, I've never seen one that even took seriously a post tribulation rapture. A pre-trib. rapture is very common among fundamentalists and evangelical, post trib. scenarios would be far less common.

My apologizes but didn't mean to imply only Baptist are fundamentalist as I know some Pentecostal Churches and Nazarene etc, have the core beliefs.

But I do recall being told that the Southern Baptist Church is not so dogmatic about the PTR and gives its members more liberty in their views.
 
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mark kennedy

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My apologizes but didn't mean to imply only Baptist are fundamentalist as I know some Pentecostal Churches and Nazarene etc, have the core beliefs.

But I do recall being told that the Southern Baptist Church is not so dogmatic about the PTR and gives its members more liberty in their views.
Well that's all very true, Baptists would include a broad spectrum of doctrines and ideas. The Nazarene church downplays eschatology while the Pentecostals sometimes have prophecy conferences. The fact of the rapture is essential doctrine but when it will happen at the end of the age is far less important, I think most Christians would agree.

Dwight Pentecost wrote a book on the end times, actually he has written several. He relates a conversation with a young man who was post-trib., he asks him what his hope is. He said he expects to die for Christ in the tribulation, assuming of course it came in his life time. Personally I don't think the question is a fair one, whether Christ comes at the beginning, in the middle or at the end our hope is the same. We will be raised in his likeness and return with him in victory.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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redleghunter

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So after being involved in 2 Independent Baptist Churches and knowing of their teaching of the Pre Trib Rapture I was wondering is this normal for a fundamentalist view of Bible? As the more I have learn of this subject it is a different view by miles of my understanding.
I don't know what constitutes a Fundamentalist church today as in the context of others definition of "fundamentalist."

However the original movement of the late 19th century was heavily influenced by a pre tribulation rapture eschatology. Which was never a dogmatic distinction. Meaning a reason to refuse fellowship. Some may have but the majority no.
 
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redleghunter

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So after being involved in 2 Independent Baptist Churches and knowing of their teaching of the Pre Trib Rapture I was wondering is this normal for a fundamentalist view of Bible? As the more I have learn of this subject it is a different view by miles of my understanding.

I presented the below thread months ago which may help with the OP with regards to the earlier Fundamentalist movement. It's based on the 5 fundamentals of the Christian faith. A response to the 19th century liberal skeptic Christian views prevalent at the time.

Have Fundamentalists Forgotten What Fundamentalism Is?
 
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faroukfarouk

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There is no hint of any "pre-trib rapture in the bible.


The rapture takes place after the resurrection, at His coming.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18


  • And the dead in Christ will rise first.
  • Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

JLB
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John 16.33)

Distinct tribulation from:

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." (Matthew 24.21)

The true pilgrim church is not going to be the object of God's wrath on earth or be on the receiving end of the Great Tribulation.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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My apologizes but didn't mean to imply only Baptist are fundamentalist as I know some Pentecostal Churches and Nazarene etc, have the core beliefs.

But I do recall being told that the Southern Baptist Church is not so dogmatic about the PTR and gives its members more liberty in their views.

I consider myself a Bible-believing disciple of Jesus Christ. I do take the Bible literally, so according to the definition I read, that would make me a fundamentalist, I guess.

Honestly, for a long time after God woke me up, I didn't really care which view was correct. That just wasn't my focus. And, even more honestly, since I didn't really care--because it didn't change my hope--I will tell you that I used to believe in pre-trib rapture blindly, simply because that is what I was taught.

When a friend challenged that view, I began to really dig through all the relevant Scriptures. When I put all the Scriptures together I found that they didn't support pre-trib, they supported post-trib. Now, I believe in post-trib, pre-wrath. Matt 24:20-32 is a clear example of a post-trib passage spoken by Jesus Himself.
 
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Hank77

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Now, I believe in post-trib, pre-wrath. Matt 24:20-32 is a clear example of a post-trib passage spoken by Jesus Himself.
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, [you] know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Who was Jesus speaking to when He said these things, to what generation?

Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

There is several interpretations of this prophecy.
 
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Radagast

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Baptists are almost exclusively Dispensationalist, I've never seen one that even took seriously a post tribulation rapture. A pre-trib. rapture is very common among fundamentalists and evangelical, post trib. scenarios would be far less common.

Many fundamentalists and evangelicals (particularly those on the Presbyterian side of the fence, but also some Baptists) don't believe in a rapture at all, but are amillennial or postmillennial. See also here.
 
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JES1023

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I don't know what constitutes a Fundamentalist church today as in the context of others definition of "fundamentalist."

However the original movement of the late 19th century was heavily influenced by a pre tribulation rapture eschatology. Which was never a dogmatic distinction. Meaning a reason to refuse fellowship. Some may have but the majority no.

Will I know that the 2 IBFC I was involved in; taught this like it is a basic fundamental Bible belief which at first I was all right with, until I did my own research and
came to a Rapture=Christ 2nd Coming. And since Darby and Schoffield it seems to me like the PTR, is a very dogmatic view in at the least the few churches I been in.
 
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JLB777

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The true pilgrim church is not going to be the object of God's wrath on earth or be on the receiving end of the Great Tribulation.


The true Church is not the object of God's wrath.

Which is why He gathers His Church together, in the air before He pours out His wrath.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18


  • And the dead in Christ will rise first.
  • Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

The resurrection/rapture is one event, that happens at the coming of the Lord, whereby He gathers His Church together, in the clouds, in the air, to be with Him, before He destroys the wicked, at the brightness of His coming.


  • Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

  • shall be caught up together with them


Together with them, indicates that the resurrected ones and the raptured ones [all His Church], are caught up together in the air and are with the Lord, safely above the earth, when He pours out His wrath upon the earth; upon the wicked, not the Church who is safely with Him above the earth.


Paul explains to the Thessalonians in the first and second letter that He will gather His Church together, then He will destroy the Antichrist [false messiah] by the brightness of His coming.


Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


Both the gathering of His Church [resurrection/rapture] and the destruction of the Antichrist, happen
at His coming.




JLB



 
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