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Divorce and remarriage

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by bananaman, Feb 28, 2002.

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  1. bananaman

    bananaman Member

    162
    +0
    I know this has the potential to be an emotional topic. I am recently divorced and I have gotten a slew of opinions form people at church about divorce and remarriage.
    I'm interested in scriptures, info, opinions ,discussion, whatever. I need to work through the issues involved and would appreaciate input.
    However , this topic is not about me. It is about divorce and remarriage in general.
    Some questions off the top of my head that i have heard or thought about in this last year.
    1. What are the biblical reasons for divorce?
    2. Are there some reasons for divorce that are permissable but not stated directly in the Bible?(the one that comes to mind as common is abuse)
    3. Is getting married for physical intimacy, a biblical reason based on 1 Corinthians 7 ?
    4. I've been told that getting married out of lonliness is wrong and I should be happy with just G-d. If that is so, then why did G-d say it is not good for man to be alone and create Eve when Adam had great fellowship with G-d?
    5. Is dating biblical?
    6. Are arranged marriages more biblical?
    7. It has been said that it is better to get to know the person over a long period before marrying. Is this biblical, since Jacob only knew Rachel 30 days and many marriages were arranged?

    well, you get the idea. Please give me some input.
     
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  2. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>I am recently divorced and I have gotten a slew of opinions form people at church about divorce and remarriage.

    After I got my divorce about 20 years ago, I read every opinion I could find on the subject. I must have read the chapter Paul wrote on it about 100 times.

    Recently I read what Pat Robertson said about the subject in his 200 questions and answers and I thought it was one of the most balanced teaching on the subject.

    Actually, the bottom line is that if two people are believers, and they have problems, they are going to have to work it out before they will be able to get into Heaven. If you have a situation where one is a believer and one is not a believer, then they are going to have to seperate sooner or later.

    God's ideal is for both to be believers. When one or both is not a believer, then Jesus, Paul & Moses, made some provisions for that. It's not a ideal perfect situation, but there are some general guidelines and what people call the "Pauline Privledge". Thanks, JohnR7

    http://209.15.80.77/200Questions/article.php?topic=13
     
  3. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>1. What are the biblical reasons for divorce?

    Of course divorce is different from remarriage. Paul says if a believer is married to a unbeliever, and the unbeliever wants to depart, let them go.

    >>2. Are there some reasons for divorce that are permissable but not stated directly in the Bible?(the one that comes to mind as common is abuse)

    As Pat Robertson says, two believers would not abuse each other. If the abuse is bad enough to truely justify a divorce, then the abuser is not a saved person.

    >>3. Is getting married for physical intimacy, a biblical reason based on 1 Corinthians 7 ?

    Only if you can not control yourself. Marriage is difficult, being single is difficult. Some people are more happy to overcome the problems of being single, others are more happy to overcome the problems of being married. As God has gifted them.

    >>If that is so, then why did God say it is not good for man to be alone

    Yeah, me to, I got married again because God said it is not good to be alone. I was alone to. Some get support from friends and family so they are not as much alone as other.

    >>5. Is dating biblical?

    I do not think so. People get hurt. God told me to either get married again or quit playing with women's emotions to lead them on to give them hope, only to tell them I was not interested. I know lots of women who were virgins and had never even been kissed by a man other than their husband. They really did keep themselves pure, clean and innocent. For me, that is the way it should be.

    >>6. Are arranged marriages more biblical?

    Why not? Arranged marriages have been known to work out better. But often it all works out the same. My wife arranged a marriage for her sister and it seems to be doing fine.

    >>7. It has been said that it is better to get to know the person over a long period before marrying.

    If there are any problems, it is better to work them out before you get married. It's usually more difficult to work out differences after marriage. The main thing is, are you really commited to God and is the person your married to really commited to God. If so, then you will just keep falling in love with each other over and over again. It will keep getting better and better. But for the deceived and the unbelieving, it goes from bad to worse. Thanks,JohnR7
     
  4. zamar

    zamar Member

    184
    +0
    What did you mean by the comment about two believers working our their problem before they can get into heaven?

    Z
     
  5. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>What did you mean by the comment about two believers working our their problem before they can get into heaven?

    Very simple, God will only let loving people into Heaven. If there is anyone in Heaven that you do not love or get along with, then you do not get into Heaven. That is why Jesus says, they will know that your are His disciple, by the love you have, one for another. This is how you know the Children of God from the children of the serpent. Those who have a serpent for a father don't get along with one another, they fight, bicker and act like divorced people act sometimes. Those who are children of God are loving toward one another and they get along. There is no fighting, bickering, back stabing, gosiping and so forth.

    Paul makes it very easy to understand when He gives a list of the works of the flesh and those who are NOT saved, compared to the fruit of the Spirit and those who ARE saved. Thanks, JohnR7

    Galatians 5:19-22
    Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [20] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [21] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
     
  6. zamar

    zamar Member

    184
    +0
    So what you are saying is that all you need is love to get to heaven? And here I thought that we were saved by the blood of Jesus when we recieve Him as our Lord and Savior.

    Huh....John Lennon theology interesting.

    Z
     
  7. InspectorVol

    InspectorVol Regular Member

    328
    +0
    Christian
    This is a very sticky issue. Here is something to read on it though.
    Not my writing, I just copied and pasted.

    WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO MARRY?


    Divine Origin and Purpose

    Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, "It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him."

    Proverbs 18:22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing, and obtains favor from the LORD.

    Genesis 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

    I Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

    God's plan for marriage is to provide companionship, to prevent sexual immorality, and to provide children with loving parents. One wife was permitted for one man at the beginning of time. One wife was authorized for one man by Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul. Elders and deacons are allowed only one wife.


    Who May Marry

    People marry in every place on earth. This has been true throughout all of earth's history. Every government on earth has laws about marriage. Those laws must be followed to be married in the eyes of God.

    Romans 13:1-2 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

    The governments know that marriage is good for the nations. The joining of a couple as husband and wife creates one new family. The family is the building block for the rest of society. When the families are good, then the nation is stronger. When the families are strong and happy, the church is stronger.

    Marriage was not some convenient invention dreamed up by men or governments. God has authorized that a man and a woman may marry. God wanted people to marry from the beginning of time. When man is alone he is incomplete. When woman is alone she is incomplete. (God said, "It is not good that man should be alone." Genesis 2:18.) The greatest happiness that can be found on earth can be found in the Christian marriage relationship.

    Matthew 19:5 Jesus said, "A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one."

    Men and women who are mature enough to leave their father and their mother are old enough to be married. If the man can provide money, food, and a house for himself and a wife, he is old enough to marry. If a woman is responsible enough to take care of the duties of the home for herself and a husband, she is old enough to marry. They should also be able to supply the needs of children that will be born.

    I Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

    God does not allow a man to have more than one living wife. God does not permit a woman to have more than one living husband.

    Matthew 22:30 Jesus said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven." Jesus makes it clear that after death we will no longer be married. This means that if a man's wife dies, he is free to marry another. If a woman's husband dies, she is free to marry another.

    Romans 7:2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

    I Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

    I Timothy 5:14 Therefore I desire that the younger widows marry, bear children, manage the house, give no opportunity to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

    Those who have been divorced on the basis of their spouses' unfaithfulness are free to marry again. The New Testament gives only one reason where God will permit divorce. Matthew 19:9 Jesus said, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery." If the husband commits adultery with another woman, God permits his wife to divorce him and she is free to marry again. If the wife commits adultery with another man, God permits her husband to divorce her and he is free to marry again. Note that God does not REQUIRE divorce when adultery occurs. If the marriage can be saved, that would be better. However, it is then very difficult for the faithful spouse to trust the one who committed adultery. A marriage is built on trust that should never be broken.

    According to the laws of God, those who are free to get married are those adults who have never been married, those who are widowed, and those who are scripturally divorced.

    At least one religion today teaches that their priests are not to marry. Yet this is not what God intended. This doctrine is one introduced by man that was prophesied by the apostle Paul.

    I Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.



    Who May NOT Marry

    A man, who is divorced for any reason other than that his wife committed adultery, is not free to marry again according the Bible. A woman, who is divorced for any reason other than that her husband committed adultery, is not free to marry again.

    Malachi 2:14-16 Yet you say, "For what reason?" because the LORD has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, with whom you have dealt treacherously; yet she is your companion and your wife by covenant. But did He not make them one, having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth. For the LORD God of Israel says that He hates divorce, for it covers one's garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. Therefore take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.

    Matthew 19:8 Jesus said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."

    God hates divorce.

    Luke 16:18 Jesus said, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery."

    Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress.

    We see that God looks at divorce as sinful when the persons involved marry someone else and become guilty of the sin of adultery.

    I Corinthians 7:10-13 A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife. But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.

    I Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

    These verses teach us that when a Christian is married to a non-Christian, a divorce may occur that is not under the control of the Christian. If divorce does not occur because of the scripturally allowed reason of adultery, then the Christian is not permitted to remarry. They must remain single.

    In Leviticus 20:10-21 there are examples of whom God says the Jews were forbidden to have sexual relations with. Therefore, these are examples of whom they could not marry. I believe we are expected to follow these same principles. A man cannot marry another man's wife. He cannot marry his mother, his step-mother, his daughter-in-law, his mother-in-law, his sister, his aunt, his sister-in-law, another man, or an animal.

    Mark 6:17-19 For Herod himself had sent and laid hold of John [the baptist], and bound him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother Philip's wife; for he had married her. For John had said to Herod, "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife." Therefore Herodias held it against him and wanted to kill him, but she could not.

    Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    God forbids a divorced person from marrying unless the marriage was ended because of adultery committed by the other person. God prohibits us from marrying a close relative. God will not allow two men to marry each other. He will not permit two women to marry each other. God will not allow a person to marry an animal.
     
  8. bananaman

    bananaman Member

    162
    +0
    thank you for the link and the posts. Please don't be discouraged by any criticsim of your views. all the posts so far have been very helpful to me.
    In christain love,
    Ben
     
  9. mama

    mama Chocolate the "other" food group

    130
    +1
    I have a personal investment in this topic and according to what I have read so far I am getting into heaven.....I am botherd by a few things and this is what they are.......I have been divorced for several years and in my situation I was physically and emotionally and mentally abused by my husband......The one giant reason I am alive today is because my doctor at the time told me if I didn't get out now one of us, meaning myself or my X would end up dead.....I believe to this day that it was divine intervention because I had already attempted sucide and my home situation was about to explode in horrible violence....I feared for my life but more so the lives of my boys....They too were being abused by him and I was having a hard time keeping them out of harms reach....I would divert attention from them onto me to protect them and it worked for the most part......So on the day my doctor told me to get away from my X I down in the lobby of my doctors office called my dad and told him I needed help....He was at my apartment with in the hour......We packed up what we could and left for salem......I don't care what kind of abuse there is....be it emotionally or physically or mentally or sexually the God that I know...the one that sent his only begotten son to die for me on the cross did not want me in that type of situation....I also tried to patch things up but it was usless and I felt a peace about it...side note he was also unfaithful to me...I have seen it in the bible not to divorce because of burnt bread.....It is also up to my heavenly father to judge me on whether or not I am gonna go to hell or heaven if I am divorced and then remarry....I am blessed because I am getting remarried to whom I believe is my true soul mate by the end of the year.....I think that the examples that are being use about divorce and remarrage is because we as a society are divorce happy.....any little problem and there in divorce court with out even trying to see if maybe counceling could of helped....provided both parties wants to work things out....Its all in God hands and I refuse to judge anyone with out looking into a mirror first.....do not judge less ye be judged...I have a complete peace about getting married again....So honey....no cold feet here and I can't wait to be your wife....I LOVE YOU BEN WITH ALL THAT I HAVE AND ALL THAT I AM....with much love and respect.....mama
     
  10. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    I did a study of the arranged marriages in the Bible and the romantic marriages.

    You hear a lot about arranged marriages being more Biblical than romantic ones, but I couldn't find one arranged marriage in the whole Bible that was happy or healthy. Isaac married Rebekah, and they hated each other in the end. Jacob married Leah, arranged, and her only happiness was having children, but he married Rachel, romantic, and her only misery was not having children. And so on through the whole book! I couldn't find any evidence that arranged marriages are better or happier.

    And I looked at the arranged marriages that I know in my own life. The families stay together a long time, but they are not a happy unit. They tend to be two people living in the same home but without the intimacy or partnering that characterizes love marriages. When you ask them what love is, they typically say something like, "Well, he provides for us, and we have a nice home."

    I decided that what keeps arranged marriages together is that both parties realize that if they fail at the current marriage, the next marriage would be even harder to arrange. Since the prospects of a second spouse are slim and undesirable, the partners work harder to stay married, and overlook a lot more behaviors that would annoy them more if their situation was better.
     
  11. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>Isaac married Rebekah, and they hated each other in the end.

    He loved her at first. But later in life she favored one son over the other and that caused the problems, not the fact that the marriage was arranged.

    Same thing with Jacob & Leah. That was not even an arranged marriage just lies and deceit. Jacob throught he was getting married to Leah's sister. She only has herself to blame for going along with it.

    Adam and Eve was a arranged marriage. So was Ruth and Boez, Esther, Mary and Joseph.

    Samson's parents wanted to arrange a marriage for him and he refused. Look at the problems he got himself into.

    Matthew 22:2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son,

    The Kingdom of Heaven is like an arranged marriage? What is all that about? Does that mean that the marriage between the Bride and Jesus is a arranged marriage?

    I think what gave arranged marriages a bad name was during the dark ages when they were arranged for political reasons. This caused a lot of problems, because there was no choice in the matter. Nor was God even consulted about it. Thanks, JohnR7
     
  12. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    Below are some scriptures I found regarding some of the matters discussed above:

    *******
    Divorce

    "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh, Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:4-6)

    "Unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife." (1 Corinthians 7:10-11)

    *******
    Adulterous 2nd Marriages

    "Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." (Matthew 19:8-9)

    "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18)

    "If a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." (Mark 10:12)

    I believe an invalid 2nd marriage isn't just a one-time sin that we can tell Jesus we're sorry about and then continue in it, for it ordinarily involves continued sexual relations between two people one or both of whom may actually still be married in God's eyes to somebody else, making the 2nd marriage an ongoing adulterous affair.

    The reason I believe it's so important to determine whether a 2nd marriage is adultery or not is because adultery, as every other sin, cannot be continued in if we are going to be saved (Galatians 5:19-21, Hebrews 10:26-27), no matter how much peace we may have about continuing in it (Proverbs 14:12), no matter how many good works we also do (Matthew 7:21-23), and no matter our opinion of scriptures which may appear to us to be too harsh (Mark 8:38).

    *******
    Abusive Situations

    I believe a woman can physically separate herself from an abusive husband to avoid harm, but that she can't divorce or remarry without her 2nd marriage being an adulterous affair (Mark 10:12).

    *******
    Is Celibacy Possible?

    When Jesus told his disciples the truth regarding divorce and remarriage in Matthew 19:9, their reaction in Matthew 19:10 may be our own. I believe that anyone stuck in a difficult marriage situation where they can neither continue in an adulterous 2nd marriage nor be at this time reconciled to their 1st valid spouse, can live through it by praying and asking for celibacy (Matthew 19:11-12), remembering that "ye have not, because ye ask not" (James 4:2b) and "everyone that asketh receiveth" (Matthew 7:7-8) and "ask, and ye shall receive" (John 16:24) and "all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive" (Matthew 21:22).

    *******
    Reconciliation

    I believe if a woman has had a valid marriage at one time, but is now in an invalid 2nd marriage, repentance from adultery would require she divorce the invalid 2nd husband, and be reconciled to her valid husband or remain single (1 Corinthians 7:11).

    Some argue that breaking the 2nd marriage "is like trying to make two wrongs equal a right," but if the 1st marriage was valid, and the 2nd invalid, then breaking the 2nd is right, for it's an adulterous affair. This is true even if there were children by the 2nd marriage, as people can have children even by adulterous affairs.

    Some say Deuteronomy 24:1-4 forbids a woman in a 2nd marriage to return to her 1st husband, but Jesus' commands regarding marriage are different than the Mosaic law. "The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17). "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery" (Matthew 19:8-9, compare 1 Corinthians 7:11, Matthew 5:31-32).

    *******
    Adulterous 1st Marriages

    If a man has married a 1st wife that was already divorced from a valid husband, I believe his marriage to her is an adulterous affair (Matthew 19:9, Luke 16:18). Therefore I believe he would be free to divorce and remarry validly for the 1st time.

    If a woman has married a 1st husband that was already divorced from a valid wife, I believe that unless he divorced his 1st wife on account of fornication, her marriage to him is an adulterous affair (Matthew 19:9). Therefore I believe she would be free to divorce him and remarry validly for the 1st time.

    *******
    Sued For Divorce By An Unbeliever

    I believe 1 Corinthians 7:15 is saying that if an unbelieving spouse sues a believing spouse for divorce, the believing spouse shouldn't fight it. In this case the divorce itself would not be a sin for the believer because they aren't the one who initiated it (contrast 1 Corinthians 7:10-11). But I don't believe this means the wife can then remarry without her and her 2nd husband committing adultery (Matthew 19:9, Luke 16:18).


    http://www.geocities.com/postrib
     
  13. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>Huh....John Lennon theology interesting.

    Satan always has his counterfit.
     
  14. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Under the law a priest was to marry a virgin. I believe that holds true today for pastors and ministers. Because they are to set a proper example for others.
     
  15. Dewjunkie

    Dewjunkie Well-Known Member

    +4
    Christian
    I have to say I disagree with your statement. My second marriage is a result of an adulterous affair. I am not proud of this, but at the time I had strayed from God and was not living in accordance with God's will. However, my second wife and I have both been saved since our marriage, and our relationship is stronger now than ever. God is blessing us financially, emotionally, spiritually, with our 2 wonderful daughters, and with good careers. All since we asked for forgiveness of our sins and started living in Him. Remember, God forgives and forgets. I truly believe that God has forgiven us for our sin and is happy to have us back in his service.

    On the topic of arranged marriages, I may not agree in full with arranged marriages, but I do think that long term dating does not help a marriage. I dated my first wife for 3 years prior to marrying her, and within the first year found myself continually at odds with her, as she changed and I changed we changed from everything we had known of each other in the first 3 years of dating. My parents only dated 7 months and have been married for 30 years. No scripture necessarily to back up my views, just my views.
     
  16. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    Having looked at the topic of arranged marriages, I can find no evidence that arranged marriages work out better than love marriages. In the Bible, and in modern life, arranged marriages had(have) equal the failure rate and unhappiness levels as love marriages.

    Plus, if you look at Song of Solomon, it is God's ideal for marriage, and that was definitely a love marriage, not an arranged marriage.
     
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