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Featured Divinely Inspired Ambiguity?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by spockrates, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

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    I disagree with this point Radrook. Jesus often spoke spiritually, but if the person he spoke to was just a carnal minded religious person, he let them think just as carnal mindedly as they were. As you 'correctly said' Jesus told His disciples "he had not been speaking in a literal way, but in a spiritual way." That never changed from when he said it to when he explained it.
     
  2. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

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    OK bro, I'm going to say 'metaphors' and 'analogies' aren't bible terms, but 'parables' definitely are. And I will also say my personal opinion is that scripture is written to be understood 'literally' or 'symbolically' or 'spiritually'....depending upon the 'maturity' of the reader to 'see'. I know that all 'three' have had, experiential as well as testimonial application, in my life personally. :)
     
  3. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Paul warned the Church about others preaching a different "Jesus":
    2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached

    There isn't a SINGLE example of ANY tenet unique to the "trinity" being preached to any audience in the Scriptures. But, that is the test Paul commands we apply to any "Jesus" we are told about.
    By contrast, the "Jesus" actually PREACHED in the Scriptures is consistently:
    The servant of his God,
    The anointed of his God,
    The man Jehovah/YHVH God promised.
    The man that Jehovah/YHVH God MADE, or "exalted to be", Christ, Lord, judge, Prince, King... etc.
    The literal descendant of Eve, Abraham, Judah, David and Mary.
     
  4. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    I guess we differ in opinion.
     
  5. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Easy to give things any meaning whatsoever when immediate context is ignored.
     
  6. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Well, the Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

    Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

    Here are a couple of quick points:

    #1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
    #2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).
    #3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).
    #4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9,10,13,14) (John 14:16)
    #5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)
    #6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).
    #7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalm 2:1-12) (Psalm 45:6-7) (Psalm 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).

    In the beginning of the gospel of John, the disciple John says...

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. The same was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1-2).

    John also says in his first epistle...

    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7).

    However, if anyone here is in doubt that Jesus is God Almighty, here is some Scripture that declares that Jesus is God and that He is the Almighty.

    Here is a great article on a list of verses that tell us this.
    (See #45 and other numbers below).

    160 Reasons Jesus Christ is Almighty God

    By Thomas Golda

    1. Jesus IS the visible image of the Invisible God - Colossians 1:15, II Corinthians 4:4...to see Jesus is to see the Invisible God - Mankind was created IN the image of God - Genesis 1:26...Jesus IS the image of God. To see Jesus is to see the Invisible God in the flesh.
    2. Jesus was conceived by God - Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:20. Since Mary was his earthy mother, that makes Jesus fully human..since God was His physical Father, since Jesus did not have an earthy father, that makes Jesus fully God. He was fully man and fully God. The Great Godman.
    3. To see Jesus' face is to see the glory of God - II Corinthians 4:6
    4. Jesus "being in the form of God" makes Him God - Philippians 2:6
    5. Jesus being the brightness of the Father's glory - Hebrews 1:3
    6. Jesus is the exact image of the Father's Person - Hebrews 1:3
    7. That is why to "see Jesus" is to "see the Father" - John 14:9, John 12:45
    8. That is why Jesus said He and His Father are one - John 10:30
    9. Jesus is IN the bosom of the Father - John 1:18. Not "on" the bosom"..not "near" the bosom...IN the bosom...He is in the center of the
    Father. They are "one"
    10. He is called EVERLASTING Father - Isaiah 9:6
    11. Jesus deserves the SAME honour as the Father - John 5:23
    12.Jesus was WORSHIPPED - Matthew 2:11, Matthew 9:12, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, Luke 24:52..Since only God is to be
    worshipped - Matthew 4:10..that means Jesus is God.
    13. Even angels WORSHIP Jesus - Hebrews 1:6
    14. Heaven falls down before the Lamb - Revelation 5:8
    15. Jesus Created ALL things - Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2, John 1:3, Ephesians 3:9 ....God created all things - Acts 14:15, Isaiah
    45:18, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 42:5. Jesus is God
    16. Jesus also made the world - John 1:10. Jesus is God - Isaiah 44:18
    17. Jesus created all things for HIMSELF - Colossians 1:16, Proverbs 16:4(Jesus is God)
    18. By Jesus all things consist - Colossians 1:17
    19. Jesus upholds all things - Hebrews 1:3
    20. Jesus is before all things - Colossians 1:17
    21. Jesus rules heaven and earth - Matthew 28:18. Jesus is God - II Chronicles 29:11
    22. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5
    23. Jesus called Himself the Great "I AM" - John 8:58, John 8:24...a quote from Exodus 3:14
    24. In the body of Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead - Colossians 2:9
    25. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are THREE and they are ONE - I John 5:7
    26. And this is all why Jesus is EQUAL WITH GOD - Philippians 2:6
    27. Jesus was "God manifest in the flesh" - I Timothy 3:16
    28. God was in Christ - Galatians 3:17, II Corinthians 5:19
    29. Jesus is the Power of God and the Wisdom of God - I Corinthians 1:24
    30. Jesus "only" hath immortality - I Timothy 6:16
    31. Jesus is Lord of the living and the dead - Romans 14:9
    32. Jesus is called the Saviour - Luke 2:11, Titus 1:4, Titus 2:13, Titus 3:3, II Peter 1:1, II Peter 1:11, II Peter 2:20, II Peter 3:18, I John
    4:14
    33. Only Jehovah God alone is the Saviour - Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 45:15 , Hosea 13:4, I Timothy 2:2, Jude 1:25...that means Jesus is God.
    34. Jesus ALONE is the Great Judge - John 5:22. The Judge is God - Hebrews 12:23, Revelation 18:8, Hebrews 13:4, Romans 2:3,5
    Jesus is God. All the verses in the Bible that talk about God being the Judge refer to Jesus, since He alone judges. The Father
    judges no man - John 5:22.
    35. Jesus has the keys of hell and of death - Revelation 1:18. The one that can cast into hell is to be FEARED - Matthew 10:28, Luke
    12:5 Only God is to be feared - Rev 14:7
    36. Jesus is from EVERLASTING - Micah 5:2, Isaiah 9:6
    37. Jesus has NO BEGINNING of days - Hebrews 7:3
    38. Jesus is the SAME, yesterday, today and forever - Hebrews 13:8. A quote from Psalm 102:27. Jesus is God.
    39. Jesus' is in the midst or the center of the throne of God - Rev 1:6
    40. Jesus has the Greatest Name above every name ever named - Philippians 2:9
    41. Jesus' name is the Greatest in the world to come as well - Ephesians 1:21
    42. And it is before name of JESUS, not any other name including Jehovah, that the peoples of the earth and heaven and bowing before
    - Philippians 2:10. Jesus is God - Isaiah 45:22-23
    43. Only by the name JESUS can one be saved - Acts 4:10-12
    44. Jesus is called the Alpha and Omega - Revelation 1:11
    45. Jesus who is the Alpha and Omega is the ALMIGHTY - Revelation 1:7-8
    46. Jesus is called the King of kings - I Timothy 6:15. Jesus is the King - Zechariah 9:9. The King is God - I Timothy 1:17. Jesus is God
    47. Jesus is called Lord of lords - I Timothy 6:15. God is called Lord of lords - Deut 10:17. Jesus is God
    48. Christ is called the ROCK - I Corinthians 10:4. That is who Israel followed. The ROCK who Israel followed was GOD - Deut 32:3-4.
    God is the Rock - Psalm 18:2 and only God is the Rock - Psalm 18:31. Christ is God.
    49. Jesus calls Himself the FIRST AND THE LAST - Revelation 1:11,17. Only GOD is the FIRST AND THE LAST - Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah
    48:12. Jesus is God.
    50. Jesus knows all things (OMNIPOTENT) - John 2:24-25, John 4:29, John 6:64, John 16:30
    51. Jesus is OMNIPRESENT - Matthew 18:20, Matthew 28:20
    52. Jesus' body fills all (is omnipresent) - Ephesians 1:23
    53. Jesus knows the hearts of men - Revelation 2:23
    54. Jesus dwells in the hearts - Ephesians 3:17
    55. And "liveth" in the believers - Galatians 2:20
    56. Jesus knows the thoughts of men - Matthew 9:4, Luke 6:8
    57. And Jesus will judge the "secrets" of men - Romans 2:16
    58. God shed His blood - Acts 20:28
    59. The cross is the "power of God" - I Corinthians 1:17-18
    60. Jesus called the Kingdom of God His Kingdom - John 18:36
    61. Jesus is the "Deliverer" of the believers from the wrath of God - I Thessalonians 1:10, Romans 11:26. Only God is the Deliverer from
    the wrath of God - II Corinthians 1:9-10
    62. In Jesus' name we TRUST - Ephesians 1:12-13, Matthew 12:21, Philippians 2:19. Only in God do we trust - Psalm 4:5, 7:1, 31:1,
    73:28, Isaiah 26:4. Jesus is God.
    63. Jesus is the TRUTH - John 14:6. Jesus is God - Psalm 31:5
    64. Jesus sent the prophets - Matthew 23:34...God sent the prophets - Jeremiah 7:25. Jesus is God who sent the prophets.
    65. Jesus is the Stone of stumbling - I Peter 2:8. A prophesy from Isaiah 8:13-14. God is the stone of stumbling. Jesus is God.
    66. God is the fountain of living waters - Jeremiah 17:13....Jesus is the fountain of living waters - John 4:10-14
    67. Jesus brings reward to the wicked for their works - Matthew 16:27. Jesus is God - Psalm 54:4-5, II Samuel 3:39.
    68. The reward of salvation is "with Jesus" - Revelation 22:12. Jesus is God - Isaiah 62:11, Isaiah 40:10
    69. Jesus gave power to His people - Luke 9:1. Jesus is God - Psalm 68:35
    70. Jesus is called the HOLY ONE - Acts 3:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 30:15, Isaiah 40:25, Isaiah 41:14, Isaiah 43:15
    71. Jesus is the light - John 8:12. Jesus is God - Psalm 27:1
    72. Jesus is the Husband of believers - Revelation 19:7,9, 21:2, 21:9. Jesus is God - Isaiah 54:5
    73. Jesus gives us rest - Matthew 11:28. Jesus is God - Exodus 33:14
    74. Jesus gathers the sheep - John 10:16. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:11
    75. Jesus seeks and saves that which is lost - Luke 19:10. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:16
    76. Jesus is the Shepherd - John 10:11,14. Jesus is God - Psalm 23:1
    77. Jesus feeds the people and causes them to sit down - Mark 8:5-10, Matthew 14:19-21. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:15
    78. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin - I John 1:7. God cleanses from sin - Psalm 51:2, Ezekiel 36:25.. Jesus is God
    79. Redemption is from Jesus Christ - Romans 3:24, Colossians 1:14. Redemption is from God - Psalm 130:7. Jesus is God
    80. Christ is the Redeemer - Galatians 4:5, Galatians 3:13, Revelation 5:9, Titus 2:14. God is the Redeemer - Jeremiah 31:11, Isaiah
    41:14, Isaiah 44:22, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 44:24. Jesus is God
    81. Jesus wrote new commandments with His finger - John 8:5-9. This is to show that He is God who wrote the 10 commandments with
    His finger - Exodus 31:18
    82. The Bible declares God. That God is Jesus who is written in all the scriptures - Luke 24:27, Luke 24:44, John 5:39, John 5:46
    83. ALL things are by Jesus - I Corinthians 8:6
    84. John the Baptist, the voice in the wilderness prepared the coming of the Lord - Matthew 3:3. A quote from Isaiah 40:3...He prepared
    the coming of Jehovah God!!!!
    85. Jesus forgave sin - Matthew 9:2, Mark 2:5....and only GOD can forgive sins - Mark 2:7. Only God can forgive sin where they are
    atoned for it. Jesus is God.
    86. Jesus forgave sins and healed diseases - Matthew 9:6. Only God can do that - Psalm 103:3
    87. Jesus calmed the storm - Matthew 8:26...Only God can - Psalm 107:25
    88. God was pierced - Zechariah 12:10...quoted again in John 19:37. Jesus is God
    89. God was priced at 30 pieces of silver - Zechariah 11:12-13...quoted again in Matthew 27:9....Jesus is God.
    90. Jesus returns again with His saints - I Thess. 3:13. A fulfillment of Zechariah 14:5 that says GOD will come with His saints. Jesus is
    God.
    91. The Jews wanted Jesus killed for the crime of Blasphemy - Matthew 26:65. In their minds He claimed to be God - John 10:33, and
    Equal with God - John 5:18 and forgave as only God can do - Mark 2:7, Luke 5:21...that was blasphemy is their eyes - Mark 2:7,
    Luke 5:21. Jesus by His words and actions claimed to be God...and that is why He was found guilty by the Jews of blasphemy.
    92. Jesus raised Himself from the dead - John 2:19-21. John 10:17-18
    93. Jesus will raise all the dead - John 6:39-40,44. God raises the dead both physically and spiritually - Ezekiel 37:12-14. Jesus is God
    94. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one and the same. Christ is God - Romans 8:9
    95. Jesus quickens (which means to make alive) - John 5:21. Only God can make someone alive - Ezekiel 37:5-6,9. Only God can
    quicken - Psalm 80:18. Jesus is God.
    96. One cannot serve God and mammon - Matthew 6:24. Only God is to be served - Romans 1:9. The One we serve is Jesus Christ -
    Colossians 3:24.
    97. Jesus is the one who "justifies" - Galatians 2:17. ONLY GOD can justifieth - Romans 8:33. Jesus is God.
    98. Jesus "reveals" truth - Luke 10:22, Matthew 11:27. Only GOD can reveal truth - Philippians 3:15, I Corinthians 2:10. Jesus is God.
    99. God will not share His glory with another - Isaiah 42:8, 48:11. But the Father glorifies the Son - John 17:1,5, John 12:23, John 13:31-
    32. Jesus is God and He is ONE with the Father.
    100. ONLY in the name of JESUS is their salvation. There is salvation is NONE OTHER - Acts 4:10-12, II Timothy 2:10. And salvation
    belongs to GOD - Psalm 3:8, Jonah 2:9, Lamentations 3:26, Isaiah 52:10, Psalm 51:14. Since only in the name of Jesus is there
    salvation and salvation belongs to God, that simply means Jesus is God.
    101. Jesus chooses the elect - John 15:16. Jesus is God - I Thess. 2:13, I Cor. 1:27
    102. Men are Jesus' disciples - John 13:35, John 15:8. Jesus is God - Isaiah 8:16
    103. Jesus' voice is the sound of many waters - Revelation 1:15. Jesus is Almighty God - Ezekiel 43:2.
    104. Jesus' feet are like fine brass - Revelation 1:15. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 1:7, Ezekiel 1:28
    105. Jesus' name is the Word of God - Revelation 19:13
    106. All grace comes from God - I Peter 5:10. Jesus is that God where all grace comes from - Rev 22:21, Romans 16:20, I Thess. 5:28,
    II Thess. 3:18
    107. Jesus comes with clouds - Rev 1:7, Matthew 24:30 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 19:1, Jeremiah 4:13, Numbers 11:25
    108. Jesus is called God - John 1:1, Hebrews 1:8
    109. Jesus is called The Great God - Titus 2:13
    110. Jesus is called The Mighty God - Isaiah 9:6
    111. Jesus is called The True God - I John 5:20
    112. Jesus is "God with us" - Matthew 1:21
    113. Jesus is called "My God" - John 20:28. Since there is "no other God" - Isaiah 45:5,21-22..that means Jesus is that God.
    114. Jesus is called "our hope" - I Timothy 1:1. We hope in Jesus - I Cor. 15:19. We are to only hope in God - I Peter 1:21, Psalm 38:15.
    Jesus is God.
    115. Christ is our life - Colossians 3:4. Jesus is God - Psalm 42:8
    116. Jesus is called Faithful - Revelation 19:11. Jesus is God - Deut 7:9
    117. Jesus is called True - Revelation 19:11. Jesus is God - Romans 3:4
    118. Israel temped Christ - I Corinthians 10:9. Jesus is God - Deut 6:16, Numbers 14:22.
    119. Christ sent serpents and destroyed Israel - I Cor 10:9. Jesus is God - Numbers 21:6-7
    120. Jesus rebukes and chastens - Revelation 3:19 - Jesus is God - Hebrews 12:5-7, Proverbs 3:11-12.
    121. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of faith - Hebrews 12:2
    122. God said "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness" - Genesis 1:26. The plurality refers to the Trinity. This is not talking
    about the angels or heavenly host. Angels cannot create life. Secondly, nowhere is it indicated that angels are made in the image of
    God. Third, there is no indication that mankind is created in the image of angels.
    123. The plurality of the Trinity is also referred to in Genesis 3:22 and Isaiah 6:8. Jesus is God.
    124. Before Jesus became man, He had glory with the Father before the world was - John 17:5
    125. All things are given into Jesus' hand - John 3:35
    126. Jesus is described as "WHICH WAS" dead, and "IS" alive - Revelation 2:8. The one who "which was" and "which is" is Almighty
    God - Revelation 4:8, Revelation 1:8. Jesus is God.
    127. The "Great Day" of the Wrath of the Lamb - Revelation 6:16-17 is the "Great Day" of God Almighty - Revelation 16:14. Jesus is the
    Lamb who is God Almighty.
    128. Jesus is the King - I Timothy 6:15, John 18:37. Jesus is the King who is called the "only wise God" - I Timothy 1:17
    129. Jesus is called the "Just One" - Acts 22:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 45:21
    130. Jesus "gives" repentance - Acts 5:31, Acts 3:26. Jesus is God - II Timothy 2:25
    131. Jesus reconciled all things to Himself - Colossians 1:20. Jesus is God - Romans 5:18-19
    132. Jesus brings Judgment on the churches in Revelation 2 and 3. Jesus is God - Hebrews 10:30, Deuteronomy 32:35-36
    133. God has a Father - Revelation 1:6. That God is Jesus Christ.
    134. Jesus stilled the waves and rules the sea- Matthew 8:26-27, Mark 4:39-41. Jesus is God - Psalm 89:8-9
    135. Jesus has eyes that are sent forth into all the earth - Revelation 5:6 - Jesus is God - II Chronicles 16:9
    136. To know the love of Christ is to be filled with the fulness of God - Ephesians 3:19
    137. Christ strengthens the believers - Philippians 4:13. Christ is God - Isaiah 40:29, Isaiah 41:10
    138. In Christ's presence is fullness of joy - John 15:11. Jesus is God - Psalm 16:11
    139. To see Jesus is to see the Father and to hate Jesus is to hate the Father as well - John 15:24, John 15:23
    140. Jesus turns the water into wine - John 2:7-11. A creative act to show that Jesus is Creator God.
    141. Jesus walks on water - John 6:19, Matthew 14:26, Mark 6:48 - Jesus is God - Psalm 93:4, Psalm 95:5, Psalm 72:8, Job 9:8
    142. Jesus causes the blind to see - Matthew 9:27-30, Matthew 11:5, Mark 8:22-26, Mark 10:51-52. Jesus is God - Psalm 146:8, Isaiah
    35:4-5
    143. Jesus causes the deaf to hear - Matthew 11:5, Mark 7:32, Mark 7:37 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 43:7-8
    144. Jesus causes the dumb to speak - Matthew 9:32-33, Matt 15:31, Mark 7:37, Luke 11:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 36:6, Ezekiel 24:27,
    Ezekiel 33:22
    145. Jesus causes the lame to walk - Matthew 11:5, Mark 2:11, Luke 7:22 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 35:6
    146. Jesus' face shines as the sun - Matthew 17:2. Jesus is God - Psalm 84:11, Malachi 4:2
    147. Jesus will inherit all nations - Psalm 2:7-8. Jesus is God - Psalm 82:8
    148. Jesus will rule all nations with a rod of iron - Revelation 12:5. Jesus is God - Isaiah 14:5-6
    149. Jesus will smite all nations with a rod or iron. He is the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God - Revelation 19:15. He is Almighty
    God who brings wrath.
    150. Jesus and His Father established the ends of the earth - Proverbs 30:4
    151. Jesus was without sin - II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, I Peter 2:22. Only God is without sin - Deuteronomy 32:4. Jesus is God
    152. Jesus is ABOVE ALL - John 3:31
    153. Jesus is GOD OVER ALL - Romans 9:5
    154. Jesus is LORD OF ALL - Acts 10:36
    155. The Lord God sent His angel to John - Rev 22:6. It is Jesus that sent His angel - Rev 22:16. Jesus is the Lord God.
    156. Jesus is called the "Lord of Glory" - I Corinthians 2:8. Jesus is YHWH God - Psalm 24:8-10
    157. Jesus gets glory now and forever - II Peter 3:18
    158. The Father calls Jesus "LORD" who made heaven and earth - Hebrews 1:10
    159. Heaven is God's throne and earth His FOOTSTOOL - Isaiah 66:1, Matthew 5:34-35. Jesus is God - Matthew 22:44, Hebrews 1:13
    160. Every knee shall bow, and "every tongue" shall confess to GOD - Romans 14:11. The God "every tongue" is confessing to is
    JESUS CHRIST - Philippians 2:11


    Article Source:
    160 Reasons Jesus Christ is Almighty God
     
  7. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    No. This is talking about his sacrifice upon the cross.

    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." (1 Peter 2:24).

    So Jesus is also a literal door, and a vine, too? (John 10:9) (John 15:1).
    Jesus was speaking in spiritual terms. The drinking of his blood is a symbolic representation of believing in Christ as our Savior and the eating of his flesh is in reference to doing God's will (See Romans 3:25, John 4:34).

    Not true. In John 3, Jesus is speaks about a spiritual rebirth (i.e. to be born again spiritually).
    In John 4, Jesus speaks about spiritual water (kind of like the spiritual bread he offers).
    In John 4, Jesus says his meat is to do the will of the Father.
    In other words, Christ's spiritual nourishment is obeying God the Father.

    "... the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63).
    "Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." (John 6:68).
    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

    A thing in God's Word can be a figure of speech and also spiritual.


    ...
     
  8. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely true.

    Yeah .... I've read all these distortions, snippets of text taken out of context, and half baked theories before, and have previously taken the time to debunk every one of them in other forums. I will be happy to do so again, one at a time, if you will do me the courtesy of addressing the point I have already raised.
    This is simple.
    All you have to do is show ONE ..... just ONE example of ANY tenet unique to the "trinity" being preached to any audience in the Scriptures.
    Or, you could show tremendous courage and honesty, and admit the obvious.
    There are none.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  9. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    If we were talking about one or two verses that would be one thing, but the sheer number of verses is overwhelming that Jesus is God (Which then means that the Trinity is true).



    ...
     
  10. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    .. SO, you NOT will do me the courtesy of addressing the point I have already raised?
    This is simple.
    All you have to do is show ONE ..... just ONE example of ANY tenet unique to the "trinity" being preached to any audience in the Scriptures.
    Or, you could show tremendous courage and honesty, and admit the obvious.
    There are none.

    The fact that you chose not to respond is a .... timid ... admission.

    Regarding your "sheer number of verses"... there isn't a single one that states "Jesus is God"... anywhere in the Scriptures.

    All you have "cut-n-pasted" is a list of verses that you THINK ... MEAN ... "Jesus is God"..... in contrast to the Scriptures, that state unquestionably, Jehovah alone is God, and Jesus is His "holy servant".
    Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house. 8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  11. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    There are many important truths in Scripture that are not recorded in God's Word as being preached to an audience. There is no verse or passage that says that a truth in God's Word is invalid if we do not see a written record in His Word of that truth being told to an audience or group of people.

    Anyways, the audience of the whole of the Bible is the entire world (even when certain books of the Bible were written to certain churches or individuals). The Scriptures are very clear that Jesus is God in 160 verses in Scripture.


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  12. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Regarding which "Jesus" is the true "Jesus" there IS a passage that REQUIRES us to accept the Jesus PREACHED... and that means to an audience!
    2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached..
     
  13. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    The different written manuscripts declares the truth of what they preached. So no. There does not need to be evidence of such.


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  14. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15).


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  15. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Paul disagrees with you. Logic disagrees with you. I disagree with you.
    The FACT that the "trinity" is NEVER .... EVER .... explained, preached or plainly stated .... while the TRUE Jesus is REPEATEDLY explained, preached and plainly stated renders the "trinity" exactly what history proves it to be .... a man-made doctrine, heavily influenced by Greek philosophy.

    The fact that you chose not to respond is a .... timid ... admission.

    Regarding your "sheer number of verses"... there isn't a single one that states "Jesus is God"... anywhere in the Scriptures.

    All you have "cut-n-pasted" is a list of verses that you THINK ... MEAN ... "Jesus is God"..... in contrast to the Scriptures, that state unquestionably, Jehovah alone is God, and Jesus is His "holy servant".
    Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house. 8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.
     
  16. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Not really interested in having this debate with you.
    I gave you plenty of verses already.
    If you do not accept the true God as revealed in Scripture then that is something you are going to work out with God. If not, then that is your choice. But you will bow before Jesus either today (acknowledging His Lordship or you will do so in the future). Either way, you cannot escape it.


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  17. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Sure! I can go for either one!! If you can show "by word", which in our case would be a Biblical record of the apostles TEACHING a "trinitarian Jesus"... or any of their writings that CLEARLY STATE OR EXPLAIN trinitarian tenets.
    What is NOT acceptable is; ANY verses that merely MIGHT work with "trinitarian" concepts, IF you are already persuaded that the "trinity" is true/possible, AND if you ignore the more natural interpretation of the verse ....like the 160 pathetic attempts you posted.
     
  18. Dartman

    Dartman Well-Known Member

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    Given the lack of GOOD verses for your position, I think that's prudent.
    ..... oh, yeah ..... you gave WAY too many twisted, misinterpreted, irrelevant and taken out of context, verses. Don't get me wrong, the VERSES are wonderful, what that guy you quoted DID to them is the travesty!
    I would love for you to pick your best 5, and let's discuss them.
    The "trinity" has been the "mainstream" theology of those claiming Christianity for about 1,700 years. That list of 160 points you posted amounts to "trinitarians" coming up with about 10 points per century .... and not a single clear statement of "trinitarian" tenets in the 160!!

    If you think I don't have the true God, then you are very quick to give up! I am still VERY willing to look at the Scriptures with you ..... (not 160 at a time) .... but a reasonable amount.
    (You DO realize I am convinced it is YOU that hasn't accepted the true God, as revealed, explained, stated and preached in Scripture ..... right?)

    I began bowing before Jesus, as my Lord, more than 47 years ago.
    I accepted him as Jehovah's chosen servant, Jehovah's "only begotten son", the direct descendant of Adam & Eve, Abraham, Judah, David and Mary, exactly as promised by his God, and my God.
    The difference between you and I is, I accepted the "Jesus" actually preached in the Scriptures, rather than the "Jesus" Paul was frightened the Corinthians might accept ... and which some eventually did.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  19. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    This is not the topic of this thread.
    I also provided the verses already.
    Accept them or do not accept them.
    The choice is yours.
    Moving on beyond this discussion.


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  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    The question is, though, whether the difference makes a difference in carrying out the mission Jesus has given His Body:

    1. Make disciples (just as Christ did)
    2. Take care of each other (just as Christ made sure His disciples had three hots every day)
    3. Operate in a manner that nobody without a grudge can call despicable

    The only differences that matter to us as a Body are those that result in a failure to do the things we are commissioned to do.

    “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

    “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.”
    ~ Mark 9:38-40

    A bunch of Catholics doing the things Jesus said, professing the name of Jesus. I have nothing to say about how they view communion.

    Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but don’t argue about disputable issues. --Romans 14

    There are such things as "disputable issues" and there are things that are indisputable.

    Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. -- 2 Corinthians 13

    Things that are indisputable will have two or three explicit scriptural references. There are other things that have one witness or conflicting witnesses that Christians may honestly dispute.

    But you will find that none of those things gets in the way of actually carrying out the mission.

    And, most likely, people who get mired down in those issues are the ones not carrying out the mission.
     
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