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Disturbing news from Greece

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by TG123, May 7, 2012.

  1. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    You assume I also have not lived AND worked in Greece.

    Most banks owed money by Greeks have already set it as lost on their balance sheets- making it official will simply end all the hot air from the Greeks and leave them to deal with their own problems. Maybe that is better for Greece in the long run but only because pain is often the best teacher to people who do not listen in the good times.
     
  2. Philothei

    Philothei Love never fails

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    living in Greece for a year or two does not qualify you to know about Greece or the Govnt...Unless one is in politics or studied political science in that nation



    Yeah the lesson is not learned by ONE nation in Europe ... but many...Wait a while for Italy and Spain..."learning" or being forced to "learn" a lesson that they did not deserve... :doh::sorry::wave:
     
  3. Jafid2005

    Jafid2005 Newbie

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    wow I really do not know what to say. First Europe is Europe and all countries in Europe will always remain in Europe Greece can only get out of the EU not out of Europe. It does boggle my mind with learning that the EU project was an idea of Hitler and how could all the countries go along with this and have a German in charge. I watch the Greek news with hubby and I didn't like that troka is telling all the Greek people to vote for only the top 2 parties, is this democracy, I think not. The EU is bulling Greece and it is ashame. They just want to vacation in Greece and nothing more. Right now they are in the EU, why are products cheaper in Germany and salaries higher then in Greece and other countries if they wanted a EU union shouldn't everyone be getting the same or close to it? why are the salaries in Germany in the thousands a month and with all the cuts in Greece 300 or less? Something is wrong here and as for the Greek people they do work they are hard workers especially the ones that had to leave their countries they work hard and made something out of themselves and now that their motherland is in so much trouble it is very sad for them. Have some compassion here, this is a Christian site is it not? My son is coming home end of June after the school finishes he didn't want to abandon his students now. I am just praying for Greece, the EU countires and all their leaders to do the right thing!!
     
  4. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    It does not have to follow that the other countries go the same way. Greeces departure may actually fix the problem.
     
  5. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    Actually the vision of Europe is far older than that. A relic of the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, European Christendom, Napoleons European conquests, Hitlers European conquests, Churchills dream of a united Europe as a way of preventing future wars and now the latest Franco-German political elites version versus the looser British concept of European economic cooperation.

    The thing is what is the best strategy for Greece AND for the rest of Europe. Greece is the member of a club it never qualified for in the first place and it has not changed as a result of membership and nor has it thrived in recent years as a result of its membership. Its politicians have accumulated debts and bad practices and evidently these will not change overnight and indeed the European straitjacket that austerity measures entails may simply deepen resentment and resistance to constructive changes. So compassion or more accurately tough love may be to simply say goodbye Greece.

    BUt yes prayers for wisdom for Europes leaders are always to be recommended.
     
  6. mzungu

    mzungu INVICTUS

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    First of all I want to stress the fact that the economic crisis in Greece is not a Greek crisis but part of the pan European and worldwide economic crisis brought upon by the Neo Liberal policies first formulated by Friedman.

    The below link is a documentary well worth watching as it gives historical accounts of how Neo Liberalism has wreaked havoc with the world's economies.

    PLEASE WATCH THE WHOLE DOCUMENTARY and if anyone has objections then by all means let us discuss them: Catastroika (English Subtitles) - YouTube
     
  7. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    OK I did try and watch all of this last night but fell asleep half way through.

    This was just communist propaganda really.

    The bit I was awake for discussed the privatisation programme in terms of the calving up of countries assets by greedy oligarches and then listed Greece as merely the last in a long list of victims or this corporate greed. This did not fit the british experience of privatisation in which millions of private citizens became shareholders in previously public enterprises.

    But the documentary used examples from Britain which I lived through and which it distorted so thoroughly to fit into its grand schema that it lost all credibility for me fairly early on. For example the Miners Strike of 1984. Thatcher destroyed this Marxist Union for several reasons including that the industry it represented was massively uncompetitive and costing tax payers billions, that the Union was trying to bring down the government as it had succeeded in doing in 1973 and was attempting to sow the seeds of instability in which a Communist revolution could succeed. Nowadays of course we know all to well the devastation wrought by Communism in the countries it conquered but many in Britain at that time entertained wild and fanciful notions about the virtues of Communism.

    Privatisation was about rolling back the tide of socialism that had paraylsed the entrepreneurial spirit and freedom of British people for a generation. It was about allowing market forces to finally sweep away industries that could no longer pay their way and open up the way for industries that could. The documentary used the example of the railways and subsidies provided as an example of how privatisation had not worked in Britain. It neglected to mention that government meddling with the industry (and I do not mean the necessary insistence on safety standards) e.g. preserving uncompetitive lines and keeping fares down had meant that market forces never really had a chance to work. Plain fact is that roads are cheaper and the money would be better spent on them. The problem with railway privatisation is that in may ways it never went far enough. Most of Britains network should have simply been shut down.
     
  8. mzungu

    mzungu INVICTUS

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    So I take it that British industry and the economy is doing well? The very fact that you use the word Communists as a threat betrays your lack of understanding modern politics. Anyone who uses communism as an excuse to further the greed of the financial sector is basically unaware of the facts.

    Watch the whole documentary then quote the erroneous parts. This is not about capitalists vs communists. Both capitalism and communism have REGULATIONS which are noticeably lacking in NEO LIBERALISM which is based on pure greed.

    Capitalism can function very well together with socialism (public health, education, highways, etc.).

    Classic capitalism does not allow for monopolies such as Microsoft. Neo liberalism does and since Neo liberalism was implemented in the US then monopolies got a foothold.

    By the way is it not true that Thatcher turned industrial Britain into Service industry Britain? What happened to Westland , Leyland, Rover, Jaguar, etc?

    Do you deny the role ENRON played? Is it communist propaganda what happened in California? Or the water department in Paris?

    Small government and no regulations means an open playing field for Goldman Sachs and the like! Any self respecting citizen knows that when you start selling your silverware then you are on the downward spiral that will end you up on the streets of poverty.
     
  9. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    It was under the last conservative administration. But after a decade of socialist economics and a massive mishandling of the financial crisis of 2008 by the last socilaist administration they are now in recovery mode.

    Neo-Liberalism is not crony capitalism. It insists on the rule of law. Neoliberal policies in failed states does not work because these are failed states not because of neo-liberalism.

    British Leyland was costing the tax payer billions and was the umbrella company for various brands. Rover and Jaguar are now a part of Tata motors which manufactures in the UK and is making a profit on Jaguar and Landrover cars. The Rover brand is now dormant. Westland continues to exist in AugustaWestland and is still in Yeovil. Britain is currently a net exporter of cars for the first time since 1976 - a clear example of the success of neo-Liberal policies and privatisation in general

    ENRONs exposure is an example of the rule of law and would be praised by Neo-Liberalism

    Where GoldmanSachs conducts itself illegally and this can be proven it will be held to account.

    Goldman Receives Subpoena Over Crisis Report - NYTimes.com
     
  10. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    Hitler wanted to rule all of Europe therefore the EU was Hitlers plan? I'm not seeing it.
     
  11. lismore

    lismore Legend

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    The Allies were too soft on Germany after World War 2. We should have given them a fair punishment for the unprecedented evil Germany loosed on the world 1939-1945.

    Germany should be sold off to pay the Greek debt.
     
  12. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    6 million Germans died in that war, millions more were permanently scarred by the experience, their cities were ruins, much of what was left was carted off to the Soviet Union in the East. Many of the men of fighting age were in prison in the USSR until 1955. They have paid reparations to countries like Greece and they have undergone a deep transformation of their national character. To hold todays generation responsible for the sins of their grandfathers is simply unfair. They have moved on why can't you?
     
  13. Philothei

    Philothei Love never fails

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    Further more the two Germanys should have never be joined into one...Who's plan was that? Yeah the end of Germany is coming...and France. They are of the same people ...they have the same roots. Napoleon was not any better than Hitler... They were always the ones to cause trouble to the rest of European nations... Never happy with what land they had :(
     
  14. Philothei

    Philothei Love never fails

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    They never paid reparations to Greece! You have no evidence and you cannot bring any evidence cause they never paid!!!

    This is a myth that Germany spreads around but the time is near for Germany to pay the price... After all they gathered all the Turks in their land ten million of them... And they made them work for them... They are responsible for bringing hordes of immigrants and Muslims into Europe. They also lead the neo-facsist movement in Europe...It is a timebomb... There will be a big clash between the two..But that is what happens when one is money and power hungry...In the end things burst in their sims. The sad part is that they want to do the same to other EU countries...and open up their borders to that mess.... Europe is a dictactorship and Germany and France are the Junta...:sorry::sorry::sorry::sorry: There is no democracy in EU :(
     
  15. mzungu

    mzungu INVICTUS

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    First of all Germany never paid us war reparations. Secondly Germany still owes us the FORCED loan she took from us worth about 160 billion € today.

    Germany is bullying Europe and she is making a hefty profit. She borrows at 0 - 1% and lends at 4 -6%. The crisis has made her approx 50 billion in interests alone. If you speak German then I will gladly post a video from German state TV where Germany is being exposed for her crisis profiteering tactics.

    NEO LIBERALISM has wreaked havoc with the worlds economies. It has all but negated any sovereignty countries have and replaced it with stock market and banking rule!

    NEO LIBERALISM has only one GOAL and that is PROFIT AT ANY COST.

    SPAIN is almost on the verge of economic collapse and if she goes then Good bye EU! But I suppose Greece is to blame for all the problems in the EU.

    What happened to the industrial might of Britain? She has been reduced to nothing more than a service industry country by the Neo Liberalism of Thatcher.

    The UK had the best education and the best NHS worldwide. NEO LIBERALISM wants you to pay for everything even the air you breathe if it could.

    Wake up people! Be you left or right! Be you communist or capitalist. The war is between the "REGULATORS vs SPECULATORS". Capitalism can and has been proven to live comfortably with socialism (Public health, education etc.) while retaining the right to private commerce. NEO LIBERALISM just caters to the financial institution shareholders interests.

    It is high time we got rid of this most inhuman system and go back to what Europe once was.

    To hades with these vultures! We have had enough of their corruption and greed, and if it takes armed revolt to rid ourselves of these parasites then so be it! Thy robbed my child's future and we will claim it back no matter the cost!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  16. mzungu

    mzungu INVICTUS

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    Published on 16 May 2012
    The German national channel "ARD" ("Allgemeine Rundfunkanstalten Deutschlands"), also called "Das Erste" (the first), which was the first TV channel in Germany, recently revealed how with massive fraud against a whole nation of people, with close cooperation from a certain select Greeks of course, Germany was able to profit some 45 billion euros from the euro crisis, on the back of Greeks! The show which was broadcasted on Greece's own national NET television channel, shows the confession of the German head of EFSF, Klaus Regling, in an interview with news magazine FOCUS on this very subject. According to the German head of the Fund, Germany, has not suffered at all from the current debt crisis and instead has recorded significant gains which he notes are expected to multiply over time. This, according to Regklingk, is because Germany is not directly lending Greece, but is rather gaining on the interest rates from the loans which are greater than those by which it borrows from.

    "The majority of market participants do not believe in the end the crisis and expects more downgrades of states this year," said Regling in an interview with news magazine FOCUS. "The markets are, in fact, more money would soothe even further. That may be right or wrong, but it is a fact. Create large numbers in the window of calm " Policy was an extension of the bailout but difficult to enforce, said Regling. In recent months, Europe has regained confidence. Since mid-November last year, interest rates have fallen by a third. This development in just four months showed that this had happened at the right time. "The rescue operations have not cost Germans. The image that funds (to Greece) flowed into a bottomless pit was wrong. There are no gifts and no permanent financial transfers. On the contrary, Germany has profited from the crisis, because a lot of capital flowed into the country (Germany)."

    Germany has only given 15,2 billion euros (according to formal data from the German government), a sum that does not in any way compare with what it has benefited from in keeping Greece "under fire". One economic analyst in the video also says that Germany's profits were so great because it is able to lend money to other nations with similar debt problems because it is able to borrow at lesser interest rates. This difference allowed the German Republic to gain some 45 billion euros from the crisis, and it is expected that this sum will rise to 65 billion.

    The most amazing part of this shocking video -confession- is that Germany's members of parliament suddenly developed Alzheimer's when asked if they knew about this.



    Germany Caused The Greek Crisis... To Win Big! (VIDEO) ~ H E L L A S F R A P P E.flv - YouTube
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  17. UnamSanctam

    UnamSanctam Guest

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    "Boohooo we've spent decades building up an untenable public opinion that we don't have to pay our expenses and can just take it easy, and now evul Germany is out to get us"
     
  18. mzungu

    mzungu INVICTUS

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    That is OK! Wait till Neo Liberalism comes knocking on your door! We shall see who cries! The 4th Reich and its allies; Finland, Holland, Austria, and Denmark can form their own union.

    Nigel Farage Germany is our new Master! - YouTube
     
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