Distinguishing between right and wrong

zephcom

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Please be sure to read down to the end of post #56 (or at least read the end, the last --


It's the perfectly to be expected that you will sometimes explain to me what I already agree with, and I'll explain to you what you already agree with, sometimes. If we manage to communicate well enough, which is always a challenge.

I definitely, just as I explained in that quote, and in another post, do not see God as merely a superhuman, say like merely a much wiser and smarter older man, 10 times as smart. No, definitely not how I see Him! :)

I have read your denial of seeing God as a super-human. But at the same time I see you treating Him as a super-human as you try to defend such things as free will and your attempts to force Him to comply with various scriptures.

I suppose it is totally human to intellectually see things one way while behaving differently.
 
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Halbhh

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I have read your denial of seeing God as a super-human. But at the same time I see you treating Him as a super-human as you try to defend such things as free will and your attempts to force Him to comply with various scriptures.

I suppose it is totally human to intellectually see things one way while behaving differently.

I see Him as like He is described in Isaiah chapter 55 -- above us so far we can't know much about Him -- which I gave you a link to above.

Suppose we could say 20 interesting truths about God.

That would be very very little -- akin to only saying He's wearing green shoes, even.

Barely touching the surface.

But it would be hard to know what Isaiah ch 55 is saying without a sympathetic openess while reading!

Put another way, we don't hear unless we listen. When I say put aside preconceptions, I mean that's the only chance to even hear accurately.

The normal human challenge we all face all the time is to really hear, instead of only hear what we expect. It's a normal thing most all face all the time.
 
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zephcom

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I see Him as like He is described in Isaiah chapter 55 -- above us so far we can't know much about Him -- which I gave you a link to above.

Suppose we could say 20 interesting truths about God.

That would be very very little -- akin to only saying He's wearing green shoes, even.

Barely touching the surface.

But it would be hard to know what Isaiah ch 55 is saying without a sympathetic openess while reading!

Put another way, we don't hear unless we listen. When I say put aside preconceptions, I mean that's the only chance to even hear accurately.

The normal human challenge we all face all the time is to really hear, instead of only hear what we expect. It's a normal thing most all face all the time.

You say you see God as He is described in Isaiah 55, specifically verses 8-9. And I see those verses as describing a super-human. In other posts, you have attributed human emotions (regret) to God. And while you will grant God superior computing powers and knowledge than humans you also limit those same things in a manner that reflects human limitations. You have also given God a status which is similar to a human's father.

There is a significant pattern there. You are thinking about God as a form of humanity.
 
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Halbhh

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You say you see God as He is described in Isaiah 55, specifically verses 8-9. And I see those verses as describing a super-human. In other posts, you have attributed human emotions (regret) to God. And while you will grant God superior computing powers and knowledge than humans you also limit those same things in a manner that reflects human limitations. You have also given God a status which is similar to a human's father.

There is a significant pattern there. You are thinking about God as a form of humanity.

We do know a few things from scripture, yes, even the surprising Genesis 6:6, and also including this: Instead of making 'God as a form of humanity' as you are supposing, we learn that humans were made by God "in His image" --

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Here's some more for you:

8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

9“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,

11so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."
Isaiah 55 NIV

Have a good evening!
 
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zephcom

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We do know a few things from scripture, yes, even the surprising Genesis 6:6, and also including this: Instead of making 'God as a form of humanity' as you are supposing, we learn that humans were made by God "in His image" --

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Here's some more for you:

8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

9“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,

11so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."
Isaiah 55 NIV

Have a good evening!

This gets interesting. We are 'made in His image' instead of Him being a super human. Other than the first is looking at us from God's perspective and the second is looking at God from our perspective, what, exactly, is the difference?

Humans and God look pretty much the same. At least enough the same that one can say we are 'in His image'.

Of course, that is assuming that 'in His image' is talking about the physical bodies we occupy to experience this realm and not the spirit being we really are.

And you have a good evening also.
 
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UnprofitableServant

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There are things that I know are wrong, like killing someone or lying. But I have a hard time distinguishing between right and wrong.

Is it right for me to isolate myself from people as long as I don't hurt? I don't know.

Is it right for me to move to this place or that place, even though my parents are against it, because they need help in their old age? I don't know.

Can I be a Christian and not attend church because I am afraid of getting hurt? I don't know.

Should I give a homeless man some money that is standing outside of Walmart holding a sign when people are telling me that he will go and buy drugs? I don't know

Should I allow a homeless man stay at my house, even though he could kill me in my sleep; or would it be wrong for me to deny him a place simply because I don't trust him? I don't know.

These are driving me nuts.

I don't expect you to answer every single question. I just want to know, how do you distinguish between right and wrong when it is not completely obvious?

Greetings,
I think this can be difficult to answer if we are wanting a rule to determine what is right and wrong for every single instance that comes up in our lives. What we want is for someone to say, "yes this is right or no this is wrong", and that forever settles it in our mind. I think right and wrong can be depending on the circumstances, more importantly, what is God saying.

Circumstances can dictate whether or not something can be seen as wrong at one time, but can be justified in another. For example, the prostitute Rah-ab. She lied to the officers when they asked if there were any Israelite's in her house. Lying is wrong, isn't it? Yet in the book of Hebrews, she is considered 'one of the righteous' in the eyes of God for lying. Why is she considered one of the righteous if she lied? I think the answer to this question can help you to see how circumstance can dictate whether something can be considered wrong in one area, yet correct in another.

What is God saying is the best way to determine whether or not something is wrong or right. God is righteous. His judgments are just. If we do what He wants us to do, then we will always be doing the right thing. It can be difficult at first to listen to God, mainly because what He wants us to do goes against our flesh, also because we tend to 'cover our ears' when he wants to speak to us. I personally think God can speak to us as a still small voice in our conscience, convicting us when we do something wrong, and prompting us when He wants us to do something right.

Have you ever thought about how God spoke to people in the old testament? We like to think that he is a loud audible voice that spoke to people and it was really clear it was God speaking. Sure, that type of things did happen, but was it the only way? Take Abraham for example: He was able to hear God's voice so clearly, that when God spoke, Abraham replied, "I am here Lord". Was everybody in the old testament able to hear God's voice so clearly? Aside from the select few that wrote the Bible. I wouldn't think so. I think Abraham was so in tune with God, that he was able to obey anything that God told him to do, because God kept speaking to Him, because Abraham would obey everything that God him to do. I digress...

Back to the point about how hearing from God can help determine whether or not something is wrong. Do you think God telling Abraham to offer His son Issac as a sacrifice was un-loving? It is murder after all, and isn't murdering someone against what God told us to do? Then why was God telling Abraham to murder His son Issac? Maybe it was because God promised Abraham that Issac was going to be the one that will make him a great nation, and Issac became an idol? Therefore, God wanted to see if Abraham's faith was in Issac or in God, by sacrificing someone that God once said will be used for a greater purpose, God was testing Abraham's faith. Of course, God told Abraham to stop, but in Abraham's heart, he killed his own son.

The point is that God determines what is right and what is wrong. He is above all principalities and governments in both earthly and heavenly places. Therefore, if He says you should do something, then it is right. If he says not to, then it is wrong.

I hope this helps.

Peace
 
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