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"Distinction Theology?"

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Dave-W, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    The law does not say "a male child must be circumcised in the heart prior to becoming circumcised in the flesh" but the law does say "a male child must be circumcised on the 8th day". Torah teaches us that the law of circumcision comes from the father. Abraham believed YHWH and it was counted to him as righteousness; Abraham was circumcised in his heart. Abraham received the seal of righteousness, he circumcised himself as well as every male in his household. Abraham even circumcised Isaac on the 8th day. We know that it was in Isaac that the descendents of Abraham would be counted. I do not seek to give you a new law, but I seek to renew an old law into your heart "AbbaLove", every male child must be circumcised on the 8th day (Genesis 17:12) if you wish to become perfect (Genesis 17:1).
     
  2. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    I am sorry Abba love, I don't think I can answer your questions without violating the SOP
     
  3. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    Not following you on this visionary.
     
  4. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    I do not see this as true, but then again it depends on your terms I guess. I also think a problem is the terms being used. When the term "new testament" is used, do you mean new covenant? Then in using "old testament" to mean old covenant. I see the term "the word" being used as (law). When you say law, do you mean all 5 books of Moses (spanning many different covenants), or the Sinai covenant? Then throw in the idea of a covenant itself. Marital covenant, will of inheritance covenant (testament). Two covenants completely different context of what they enjoin in.
    I think agreeing on these things might go a long way in finding agreement and unity.
     
  5. Laureate

    Laureate whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

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    The irony being, the tenants of Judaism is founded upon Father Abvraham, that is why we refer to him as,the Father of our Faith.
     
  6. Laureate

    Laureate whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

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    Everything listed below pertains to following the example of the First Prophet who was Called.

    "And Yésʰûʷəʰ said unto them, honestly I say unto you, That you who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of Adam shall sit in the throne of his glory, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    And every one that has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

    But many who were First shall be Last; and the Last shall be First." [Matthew 19:28-30]
     
  7. Laureate

    Laureate whatisthebaytreeknown4? What's debate reknown for?

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    And in like manner, the Sephardic Spain (Manasseh) and Portugal (Apʰrîyém), and the assortment of Latin tribes (from the land of עברי Iberia the Hebrews) comprises the greater portion of those who were separated from them.
     
  8. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Yes indeed. Abram was priest before he became a "mighty prince". It was evil for Israel to desire a king when Samuel lead them as prophet and priest; YHWH served as her father and king during her long journey. Samuel anointed both Saul and David as kings of Israel (Matthew 23:9). Ironically the Catholics are taught to call their priests "father", yet they do not build altars, are not permitted to marry wives and have children. Samuel served the people as priest and prophet; we have many whom serve the people as teachers but few are fathers (1 Corinthians 4:15). Paul the Pharisee begot the Corinthian church in Christ; Paul was an apostle or father to the gentiles. It was the duty of Abraham to circumcise his sons Isaac and Ishmael; Paul the son of a Pharisee circumcised Timothy. We know the Pharisees are the strictest sect of our religion (Acts 26:5)
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  9. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Come to the synagogue and talk to the rabbi. MJ rabbis will discuss this with you and explain it in detail.
     
  10. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    Dave, thank you for sharing the message. I suspect this is my favorite post from you. :)

    You are addressing function and that is the probable root of contention for many. Flesh desires equality in station and function and when its absent we mimic children and decry the sibling who received more or something we didn’t.

    Yet, we are shown in the new testament that distinctions exist. Paul’s exposition of crowns are specific and are earned through our deeds. They aren’t dispensed to all.

    We see a continuation of the Jewish place in the naming of gates. They could have been named after the disciples but God chose the 12 tribes instead.

    Practically speaking, we aren’t lessened in His eyes if one bears a crown and the other doesn’t. His infallible love is capable of exhibiting itself without forming distinctions in the heart. Differing roles don’t equal lessening in His eyes.

    If we consider the diversity of gifts and talents that are addressed in several places we see evidence that function is a hallmark of His kingdom. Some are called to offices and others to work which supports (or spearheads) the missions He sets.

    We are not aggrieved by the idea we are lacking in a certain gift (most of us). But encounter a stumbling block on this subject. We must direct our thoughts to the heart to pluck out the thorn that impedes its embrace.

    I don’t believe this is the lone struggle. We are apt to see God and the kingdom through the narrowness of our existence when its reality is greater.

    There are those who wish to emphasize differences and others who promote ideologies fueled by hidden needs that are best resolved by God. If you’re wholly focused on your position within the Body as opposed to the work you’ve been given to perform that’s a problem. It is my consensus that hails from pride not love.

    As a servant, it isn’t mine to define the chain of command or its makeup. That’s the Commander’s job. And if He declared specific roles for Jews and others within His command who am I to complain?

    I made a choice to follow Him. And He never said I’d make the rules. The role of Jews in the kingdom and their function is only grievous if you must come first and cannot accept your place in light of theirs.
     
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  11. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Thank you!
     
  12. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    Since this thread involves "Priesthood" I think comments on this verse is excellent for this thread. Think priesthood here.
    Who is the Christ in this next verse?
    "in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:"
    Le 4:3 If the priest that is anointed <04899> (Messiah)
    Le 4:5 And the priest that is anointed <04899>(Messiah)
    Le 4:16 And the priest that is anointed <04899>(Messiah)
    Le 6:22 And the priest of his sons that is anointed <04899>(Messiah) in his stead
    As the op points out the function of the order of Aaron (as a Levitical priesthood) as representative agency before God. Appearing before God on behalf of Israel.
    Whom did they represent?
    Ex 28:29 And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the LORD continually.
    No Gentiles were named there
    Ex 39:14 And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes.
    This is what Ephesians is speaking about. Apart from circumcision a Gentile had no tribal affiliation and therefore no Messiah before God
    04899 משׁיח mashiyach maw-shee’-akh
    from 04886, Greek 3323 Μεσσιας; n m; [BDB-603b] {See TWOT on 1255 @@ "1255c"}
    AV-anointed 37, Messiah 2; 39
    1) anointed, anointed one
    1a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince
    1b) of the king of Israel
    1c) of the high priest of Israel
    1d) of Cyrus
    1e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings

    Ephesians is "distinguishing" between the "Annointed ones".
    Above he speaks of the High priest according to the order of Aaron
    Below he speaks of the high priest as specifically order of Mechizedek in Jesus
    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  13. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    Recently I've had the honor to discuss the Torah of devarim/ deuteronomy 22 and the context of consent and disconcerting english misstranlations of hebrew connotation.

    While shechem was held in utter disregard by 2 of the 11 brothers of Dinah.
    I imagine she suffered her brothers cruelty more than a plague of famine upon the land.
    If she were in fact in love with shechem. And avraham acted according to her hearts counsel. Her brothers defied their father, plotted deceit and shed blood as David had. Leaving her to mourn a number of days for the man who showed her humbleness. A field And shew bread indeed.

    If this be the case. Dinah would be left as a widow to the husband she truly loved. And further more if a son or daughter were to come from their consomation, they would be orphaned.

    Something that reminds me of the widow whom eliyahu visited.
    I imagine she was of the tribe of yhdh.
    Or even likely a decendent of Leah.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  14. Gregory Wilson

    Gregory Wilson Member

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    Good point!! Yet Romans 11 says Gentiles are grafted into this Jewish olive tree. And it says elsewhere that we are all One in Messiah, Jew and Gentile, and Gal 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek... And then what seems to do it for me is Yeshua's words in Matthew 5:19 - WHOEVER keeps and teaches the commandments will be called great in the kingdom. And surely the kingdom is made up of more than Jews. So yes I think Gentiles in Messiah are called to observe the parts of Torah that are applicable to them as well... Shalom,

    Greg
     
  15. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Jerusalem covered by His wings...This picture was taken over Jerusalem on January 16, 2019!
     
  16. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    This scenario and other Biblical accounts reminds us of Leviticus 19:18 and Yeshua's Words in Matthew 5:38-48.

    Shakespeare's inspiration for his plots/intrigue comes from the best source for the human nature of fallen sinful mankind including how women were [mis]treated.
     
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  17. Gregory Wilson

    Gregory Wilson Member

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    AMAZING!!!! Hope it wasn't photoshopped!
     
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