Dispensationalism is the root cause of terrorism
- Thread starter Jack Terrence
- Start date
I haven't bothered to check out this propaganda. It is clear that someone has no clue either about Dispensationalism or terrorism.
Upvote
0
- May 15, 2005
- 11,935
- 1,498
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- CA-Conservatives
This very bad document is a combination of a seriously flawed interpretation of the scriptures with a perverted view of both ancient and recent history.
Upvote
0
Lol - try posting that over on the following site - you'll soon find you are the one that boxer gif of yours is knocking the daylights out of
http://letsrollforums.com/scripture-sound-doctrine-dispensationalism-f77.html
Upvote
0
Another point of biblical clarification regarding America's "Stand with Israel" policies. God forbade Israel to have allies and to acquire the land by force. God told Israel,
Then he said to me, "This is what the LORD says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of Heaven's Armies.
Furhtermore, God said that He would give them the land as the consequence of their returning to Him in obedience. But they have taken the land by military force.
Woe unto you who support Israel!
Then he said to me, "This is what the LORD says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of Heaven's Armies.
Furhtermore, God said that He would give them the land as the consequence of their returning to Him in obedience. But they have taken the land by military force.
Woe unto you who support Israel!
Upvote
0
Though a minority, some Dispensationalists will agree with all but the last sentence of your words in this post, as your "woe unto you who support Israel" appears based in some sort of a works based gospel.
You'd do well to lose your "one size fits all" notions. It only dampens what impact whatever light you might have as to those areas in belief common in with other views.
Upvote
0
God forbade Israel to have allies and to trust in military might.
Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help, who rely on horses, who trust in the multitude of their chariots and in the great strength of their horsemen, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel, or seek help from the LORD. Isaiah 31:1
Woe to those who "Stand with Israel" against God.
Then he said to me, "This is what the LORD says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. Zechariah 4:6
Woe to those who "Stand with Israel" in her disobedience. Woe to those whose theology makes Palestinains jealous to have land instead of making Israel jealous to have Christ.
The Dispensationalism cult is responsible for all the evil in the middle East.
Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help, who rely on horses, who trust in the multitude of their chariots and in the great strength of their horsemen, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel, or seek help from the LORD. Isaiah 31:1
Woe to those who "Stand with Israel" against God.
Then he said to me, "This is what the LORD says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. Zechariah 4:6
Woe to those who "Stand with Israel" in her disobedience. Woe to those whose theology makes Palestinains jealous to have land instead of making Israel jealous to have Christ.
The Dispensationalism cult is responsible for all the evil in the middle East.
Upvote
0
- May 15, 2005
- 11,935
- 1,498
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- CA-Conservatives
No one here is standing with Israel against God, or in her disobedience. But show even one place in the entire Bible where God retracted His statement concerning Israel that "Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee." (Numbers 24:9)
Upvote
0
How is it that all of a sudden the OT applies in their belief system?
I read the various posts those based in their belief system and shake my head.
While they and theirs are busy pointing fingers at those millions deceived by writers of what are nothing more than pop culture books supposedly based on "Dispensationalism," true, they and theirs fail to see the wool being consistently pulled over their own eyes by those pop culture writers of their Replacementist belief system.
Look at the sense of the post on that link, together with the words of those who support it - it reads as out of touch as those who get their "understanding all about God, and Dispensationalism and his favorite chosen people" from what is obviously their version of the Replacementist school's own, latest celebrity writers.
Get it through your heads Replacementists - you and yours are also being manipulated out of your [hopefully] hard earned money by your own celebrity writers due to your belief system as much as all those out there who get their "Dispensationalism" from their version of "books about."
Get back to THE Book!
It is my understanding that with Israel's temporary fall, Romans 11:25-29, Israel as a nation was concluded Lo Ami - not My People - and will continue to be so "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in," and is thus, comprised of individuals each in need of putting their faith in the Blood of Christ.
It is further my understanding that with that nation's temporary, corporate fall, any promise in connection with that nation as one nation under God, was also temporarily put on hold, and will not apply until after this Mystery age - Romans 11:25-29.
While I'm busy attempting to pry both side's eyes open here - you see that phrase I just used there - "one nation under God" - its actual nation is not the U.S., not the nation our forefathers Deduced through their Replacementist Premise even as they knowingly butchered and allowed the butchering of countless of those who were here and who they continue to oppress for the land, to this very day.
"Grandpa, why are the Cowboys and Indians always killing one another in those Westerns?"
Well, grandson, I don't really like looking at that, as it exposes the duplicity of my own belief system but... well, um... Here it is, um. don't tell anyone, okay...
See, son, in the OT, Chronicles 8:14 is a passage there that, well, that many of us espouse as, well, as part of, of, well you know, of our Replacementist view, you know, about, um, "Our God inspired country."
See son, its a passage we have chosen to ignore the actual sense of, together with its actual Malachi 3 & 4 participants.
Its how the cowboys and Indians killing each other all the time came to be, and why God caused us to win, you know, um, ur, given our Replacementist forefathers - you know, that believe like us.
See, son, you know that line in TV Westerns about "them heathen" that the good guys use against the Indians, well, see, that is actually Hollywood being accurate by accident as to just how widespread our Replacementist views once were - I'm proud to say, son, that til that Darby fella came along an unleashed what he did, we were once the ruling majority - I mean look at all this land we were able to murder others out of - I mean, that God allowed "them heathen" to lose... sorry, son, kinda got a moment of clarity there.
Anyway, here's that passage we um, even now still mis-appropriate - why, heck - even most of them there dispensational folks - most them get their notions about their system from "books about" too - even most of them still buy into this part of our Replacementist view..
Hmmm, maybe we can make a comeback after all - where's my book writing program...
Here son, for your eyes only...
2 Chronicles 7:
13. If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
14. If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Cowboys and Indians - here son, here is what all that passage was actually about - you known, under the Law back then - Deuteronomy 11:
16. Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
17. And then the LORD's wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
18. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.
22. For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
23. Then will the LORD drive out all these nations from before you, and ye shall possess greater nations and mightier than yourselves.
See that verse 23 there, well, passages like that one gave us the Replacementist right to practically wipe them people out who were here first!
But don't tell anyone, son - promise. Cause right now we're going on about them fool Dispensationalists - right now, they're repeating a similar version to that with Israel over there and all that stuff going on in that there Middle East place - you know, cause most of them "Dispys," too, well, most them also get their "Bible" not from The Bible, but, well you know, from their version of our celebrity authors.
Still, son, I hope you don't grow up just like me...
And the cat's n the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy as to the Replacementist tune...
On all these "books about" your money don't spend
For only the Bible's your friend,
For only the Bible's your friend...
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Modern "Israel" was created by the U.N. and not by God.
THE IDOLATORS OF ZION: ORTHODOX JEWS REJECT ZIONISM SO SHOULD CHRISTIANS - eXile MM - Christians in Exile 2000
THE IDOLATORS OF ZION: ORTHODOX JEWS REJECT ZIONISM SO SHOULD CHRISTIANS - eXile MM - Christians in Exile 2000
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Your duplicity obviously will not allow you to read the words of those who you rant against.
So here is the sum of the above in gnat attention span form:
Your and those of your school read as out of touch as those who get their "understanding all about God, and Dispensationalism and his favorite chosen people" from what is obviously their version of your Replacementist school's own, latest celebrity writers.
At least consider that...
Last edited:
Upvote
0
The link you have provided is a propaganda mishmash. Let's deal with truth and facts.
FACT #1: Zionist Israel was not created under God's leading. However, God will use it for His own purposes.
FACT #2: Zionist Israel is secular, but Orthodox Judaism is simply rabbinic Judaism -- the religion of the Pharisees, who rejected Christ.
FACT #3: Both of these groups reject Yeshua ha Mashiach and will be deceived by the coming Antichrist.
FACT #4: Despite their unbelief, God has had his hand over Israel, otherwise they would have been wiped out long ago.
FACT #5: All unbelieving Jews need the Gospel of Christ desperately. Any preacher who preaches differently is a false teacher. Direct Christian support for the state of Israel is not required and should not be encouraged.
FACT #6: Political support for the state of Israel by the West is not only desirable, but necessary, since the entire Muslim world, and a large segment of the Western world is anti-Semitic and hates Jews. This is the only prosperous democracy in the Middle East. Muslim terrorism is what should be of utmost concern to every nation.
FACT #7: There are large numbers of "traditional" Christians who bitterly (and irrationally) hate Dispensationalism. It is almost as irrational as the Arab hatred for the Jews.
FACT #8: Dispensationalism does teach a pre-tribulation Rapture. Bringing names like Darby, Scofield etc. into the propaganda does not change this fact.
FACT #9: The pre-tribulation Rapture of the Church is a sound Bible doctrine (not a theory), because Christ must first come FOR His saints, before He comes WITH His saints.
FACT #10: Despite the false doctrine of Preterists (of whichever stripe) the Second Coming of Christ is still future, and so is the Millennium.
Upvote
0
Yes, let's deal with TRUTH and not propaganda. The Israel God establishes comes AFTER their resurrection.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Tell us when Israel was resurrected. LOL! Modern Israel is a secular state established by secular society (the U.N.)
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Your post hereinabove is, more or less, the actual assertion of all three schools of Dispensationalism [the Acts 2, the Acts 9, and the Acts 28 school].
Your error, and that of your school is that you get your supposed understanding on "Dispensationalism" from "books about" that both your school and some supposed "Dispensationalist" writers supposedly write "knowingly about."
It is true that sensationalist Dispensationalism has its origin in the Classic School of Dispensationalism, but that is where it splits off from that school, either for the quick buck, on the part of sensationalist Dispensationalism's celebrity authors and their legion of the ignorant that all school's of theology have their particular pews filled with, while other times, the failure is simply that of ignorance on the part of some who, though meaning well, are nevertheless unaware, that they are no longer being consistent in their application in the Dispensational Hermeneutic.
In fact, that is how earlier Pentecostalism [eternal insecurity] came into being, with its, on the one hand, Pre-Trib assertion, on the other, its "he that endures unto the end shall be saved" - departure, if you will, from said Pre-Trib assertion. Its failure to apply the Dispensational Hermeneutic consistently, as made obvious by contradictions like those.
Again, what you have just stated is exactly consistent Dispensationalism's view.
Even more so, where the Acts 9 and Acts 28 school are concerned, as these two tend towards a much consistent cessasionist perspective in their view of present things.
Acts 2 being the more Classic, or Traditional school, or view, Acts 9 being the Mid-Acts Perspective, and Acts 28 being the Acts 28 Position.
The more astute cannot but observe in those three schools elements of the Reformed and its various offshoots, and their various split offs. Par for the course in the history of differences in approach and or opinions in every subject, endeavor, science, you name it - out there.
In this, its best to forget an over reliance on "books about," and instead see the Dispensational Hermeneutic for what it actually is - a study principle as to those Things That Differ within Scripture, as to their distinctions in some areas, their - only similar - in others, and their sameness in others.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
There is no disputing this passage. In fact, additionally the Lord will gather Jews from around the world and bring them to Israel so that they may repent and be saved. At the same time, the fact that Israel exists as a secular and unbelieving nation is proof that God will fulfil this prophecy also. Before 1948 no one would have believed that that prophecy would be literally fulfilled. And the borders of Israel will be changed at the second coming of Christ.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
If Israel is to be placed in the land upon their resurrection, and they will know the Lord as their God at that time, then the people who now possess the land are NOT Israel, for they have not been resurrected, and neither do they know the Lord as their God. They reject God's Messiah.
Keep it simple dude! Those who "Stand with Israel" are actually supporting imposters.
Upvote
0
faroukfarouk
Fading curmudgeon
You're not going to send people to Guantánamo because they see that the words 'Israel' and 'church' in the Bible mean something distinct: the basis of dispensationalism.
Upvote
0
Within a camp within the perspective I eventually came to embrace even before I'd known others shared a similar perspective - the Acts 9 or Mid-Acts Perspective - we are 100% cessasionist outside of the Spirit effectually working in the Believer through the Word.
Our view in that as to this land issue, etc., is that God does not have a hand in any of it as He has temporarily ceased His hand in any of it.
That God, for example, made good use of the roads the Roman Empire built in their Genesis 11, Romans 1 quest for glory in their own vanity through the ignorance that was in them, does not mean God's hand was behind those roads - and that was when God was still very active in the signs and wonders aspect of His witness of His will.
Scripture asserts He takes the wise in their own craftiness, it does not say that He makes them that way, nor towards His own intents.
Likewise as to whatever of all that has been going on in the Middle East after God for the third time in the book of Acts related once more to Israel through - get this - an Apostle of the Gentiles - what He related to that nation for its third and final strike at the end of Acts 28:
25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Shortly before that, this odd new Apostle - of the Gentiles, no less [!] - had already laid out what he had about that in Romans 2, and 9-11, Israel having fallen at Acts 7:52, per Matt. 12:30-32, and Romans 2.
In short, that that land is once more the raging issue that it is, on the one hand does not mean that God is behind all that, while on the other, does not preclude His making use of their disobedient return, a return in disobedience which is, in fact what their prophets foresaw.
Again, foreseeing and foreordaining are not one and the same principle.
Did God bring about the internet? Have His own made use of it though? - That is what is being confused here - especially by sensationalist under the guise of "Dispensationalism."
Two Mid-Acts writers of note foresaw all this mess back in the 1920's - only to find themselves in battle with what were back then's version of today's celebrity writers, as those back then also distorted what views opposed their own that their celebrity continue its proud reign over their followers.
Same old same old...Boxer, you and yours are way past a day late and a dollar short on all this...
Upvote
0
No, that is the basis found in celebrity writers "books about."
That is how you and yours consistently approach these issues - through reading about it in "books about.."
Doing so results in a way of approaching what one is looking at, either in another school's "books about" or in Scripture, already laden down by one's particular school's and or book's manner of "reasoning through a thing" - through its school's particular way of doing so.
Below, I point to a "book about."
But only because I had already invested years before I even knew the Lord, training myself not only in how to look at a thing objectively, but to look at my own looking at a thing, even as I was engaged in said looking.
Proverbs 3:
5. Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
So far you have given no scripture to support your views. Yet you call your views "facts." Here is the scripture I posted again.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
What is your proof that the secular state which men (not God) calls "Israel," is the Israel of Ezekiel? God told Ezekiel that they would be placed in the land upon Israel's resurrection. When did that happen? My question is a straight forward question.
Upvote
0
