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Discussion: Should the words 'gosh' and 'gee' be banned for TAW members?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by MariaRegina, Aug 27, 2007.

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  1. TrueHope

    TrueHope Senior Veteran

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    I think there may be several theories on that one, and I think even priests may disagree as well here. My priest says it is ok, because it is like saying, "Lord, can you believe this....don't let our souls die over this." Another, I talked to, says, Oh no..., another, fine, another no....You should stay with what your heart tells you. We all have different walks. Some easier than others. Mine is not an easy one....so when I know I am ready to explode, I do say that, because I know if I do explode that if Christ came at that moment, I am doomed! lol. For me it is a plea of Help me, take this rage from me, forgive me, forgive them, don't let our souls perish for this momentary fit of anger, or stupidity, or whatever...
     
  2. Protoevangel

    Protoevangel Smash the Patriarchy!

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    That's where my earlier comment "with knowledge comes responsibility" comes in.

    So you see, the connection is not entirely lost. However, I will concede your earlier point, that what is most important is how the person intends the expletive. What is most important is whether it is thought of entirely as an innocent "no-meaning" expression (as if words really have no meaning), or whether it is done with knowledge of what the word was created to mean, and indeed still means...
     
  3. nutroll

    nutroll Veteran

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    The problem with citing a dictionary definition is that dictionaries always try to preserve the etymology of a word. Just because a dictionary says that does not mean that the word has that original meaning for people. I doubt that most people even thought to look the word up until this conversation. And while I agree that we shouldn't willingly do something wrong, I still think that one can be aware of where the word comes from without using it in that way. If someone was raised with those words, even being made aware of where they come from will not necessarily change the meaning of the words to that person. If, like you, they find out where the word comes from and it changes the meaning for them, then by all means they should stop using it. If, however, they find that out, or knew all along, but to them it is still just a meaningless word, I don't think that they are doing anything wrong by using it.
     
  4. Protoevangel

    Protoevangel Smash the Patriarchy!

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    It can also mean one thousand dollars: "a fancy car costing twenty-five gees". Alternate meanings are not the point. The point is how it is used when used as an expletive. It is not entirely uncommon for someone to begin to exclaim the name of Jesus, and to catch themselves in time to only say gee (jee). This is in fact how the expletive was created in the 1880's.

    Certainly. I think Nutroll's earlier post (#105) was right-on when it comes to this.

    "I think the problem is not so much with the words that we say, as with the reasons why we are saying the words. If I choose to say Lord have mercy as a statement of alarm rather than gee, golly, or gosh, I am no better unless I really mean it as a prayer. If I say darn it rather than damn it I am saying the same thing. If I replace darn with yarn or barn or corn or any other word, I am still saying the same thing."
     
  5. Protoevangel

    Protoevangel Smash the Patriarchy!

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    Well, I don't fully agree with every nuance here, but close enough for me to say that I think we are now in basic agreement. I myself am one of those you describe, who never looked these words up before Aria brought this all to our attention. I am grateful to her for doing so. Not counting all of the sarcasm and negativity (including some of my own responses), this has been a very good thread for me. Thanks for sticking with it, and being willing to discuss it rationally.
     
  6. Shubunkin

    Shubunkin Antiochian Orthodox Christian

    +593
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    I know it's just me, but when I hear someone say, "Gee" or "Gee whiz" or "Golly gee" it just sounds to me they don't have enough sense to come up with something more intelligent. Sorry if this accessment of mine is offensive in itself, but I'm relaying what I do think in real life when ever I hear these "expressions" and I do have to wonder if they understand what they mean too.
     
  7. Kristos

    Kristos Servant

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    "Zoikes"

    Shaggy
     
  8. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

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    I respect that. I do agree with each person walks by the light they're given, and what may be ok to one person may not be to another. It's all good. :)
     
  9. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

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    That's fine, but I don't say "gee" because I'm trying not to say Jesus. It doesn't even cross my mind that those could be related or connected. It's totally different words to me. Not even close. Gee is the same as "wow, look at that," to me. So, there's no comparison between the two in my opinion and in how I use it in my life.
     
  10. Protoevangel

    Protoevangel Smash the Patriarchy!

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    OK, one more time:

    Certainly. I think Nutroll's earlier post (#105) was right-on when it comes to this.

    "I think the problem is not so much with the words that we say, as with the reasons why we are saying the words. If I choose to say Lord have mercy as a statement of alarm rather than gee, golly, or gosh, I am no better unless I really mean it as a prayer. If I say darn it rather than damn it I am saying the same thing. If I replace darn with yarn or barn or corn or any other word, I am still saying the same thing."

    I've let it go Dorothea. If your conscience is clean, I have nothing to say about it. May God send His Holy Angels to guide us both on the straight and narrow path. :hug:
     
  11. fuerein

    fuerein Guest

    +0
    To an extent I agree with this, not to the point though where you get into your view of it being offensive to some... let me explain.

    Often I find these words being used precisely when someone cannot come up with something more intelligent to say, but I do not mean that negatively. If someone catches me off guard, surprises me, whatever I instinctively look for SOMETHING to say but my mind is still slightly in shock from the surprise and it takes a second to re-order my thoughts. However my mind instinctively WANTS to say something and these kind of words/phrases that are sometimes railed against are used by many as more of a "filler" as they process the whole event and get their thoughts together. I guess that could still fall under the "idle talk" prohibitions, but still sometimes you just want to make SOME expression, yet don't quite know how to express it and these words become a common expression that most understand even when a good word to properly express your thoughts doesn't come to mind.

    I don't know... just my pondering thoughts.
     
  12. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

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    :sorry: :blush: Sorry about that. And thank you for your kind words. :) :hug: back atcha.
     
  13. NyssaTheHobbit

    NyssaTheHobbit Orthodox Christian (chrismation date 1/10/09)

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    Actually, if you look too deep into etymology, you'll find that even "zoinks" and "zounds" are offensive. Making those cartoon characters quite the potty mouth. ;)
     
  14. VickiY

    VickiY Well-Known Member

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    I truly think we need to ake a few steps back, here...First, I'd like to note that zounds is a contraction of the oath "God's wounds".

    Next, I'd like to state that it should certainly not be an issue if someone uses "geez" or "gosh" in innocence. Language changes, and if no one has ever told a person what a word he is using means, then surely we cannot blame someone for using it? Language evolves, and I, for one, even though I am aware of the origins of the words, think no more of "gosh" other than that the user has seen one too many Leave It To Beaver episodes, although I dislike hearing "geez".

    That said, origins of the word do not make for acceptable current usage. Just ask an Englishman going out to smoke a f.a.g. Or that old lady gathering f.a.g.g.o.t.s for her fire. Clearly, we have no problem banning words that began as innocent and became offensive over time, because they convey an entirely different meaning to the modern listener. The same is true in reverse...banning a formerly offensive word that no one else can even recognize as offensive is just...offensive.

    Certainly if someone is aware that a word is cursing or vulgar, they should not WANT to use it...but to step on someone because they innocently used such a word is not right.
     
  15. VickiY

    VickiY Well-Known Member

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    Also, a few weeks ago someone mentioned that it was not the former meaning of a word that means female dog, but the current meaning that matters. Surely the same reasoning should apply here?

    AND while we're on the subject, Orthodox Christians should be protesting over the ban on F.o.s.
     
  16. NyssaTheHobbit

    NyssaTheHobbit Orthodox Christian (chrismation date 1/10/09)

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    What is considered "cussing" and "swearing" is also very much a product of culture. Certain words considered curse words in Britain are considered harmless in America. We don't even know what they all mean. :p I've also heard of places where words like "tabernacle" and "baptism" are used as curse words. (Somebody linked to an article a while back.) I've also heard of words like "jackal" being used as curse words in some places. They're certainly not used that way here. Normally, those of us (like me) who use words like "gosh" and "darn" are not considered to be cussing or swearing at all, no matter how we use it in a sentence. And those old-fashioned cuss words no longer have any meaning at all, so much so that they're used by cartoon characters.
     
  17. Asinner

    Asinner Seeking Salvation

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    I don't believe in banning words, books, smoking . . . Let people's hearts govern them. I think we can discuss certain words and perhaps come to a better understanding of their meaning and then . . . let the people decide for themselves whether their conscience is troubled. (Actually, there are a lot of words that I strongly dislike and I try to teach my children the meaning of the words they use.) If I am offended by someone's language, then I will either ignore it or walk away, but I would never tell them they are not allowed to use those words in front of me. We are called to love, not to judge or act superior. This is not directed to anyone here but me. I need to follow my own advice.

    Love,
    Christina
     
  18. xristos.anesti

    xristos.anesti Veteran

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    I am not aware how much these word offend God -

    I AM however somewhat aware how much my actions, words and thoughts offend God -

    the words mentioned (Gosh, Gee and whatever else) are just words and mean nothing to me - I do not use them nor does anyone I know - you can vote and decide - but it looks like a cosmetic issue to me -

    Also, if you start banning words - why not ban them all - that way we can make sure that we do not offend - while we're at it - let's ban thinking too....


    Many years.
     
  19. Bushmaster78FS

    Bushmaster78FS Senior Contributor

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    If any of you guys were in the military, I am sure you would all cry your eyes out with the usage of Lord's name in vain everyday and day after day... Everytime I hear it, it is like you are stabbed... Especially I am almost hearing GD everyday, but JFC is something I want to go and smack the heck out of that person, when I hear that I usually cough out loud or something and they are like What?!?!?
     
  20. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Being a ColdWar Vet, SGT USMC AD 82-90, I know exactly what you are talking about.

    Forgive me...
     
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