Discussion: Should the words 'gosh' and 'gee' be banned for TAW members?

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OrthodoxyUSA

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Was it laughing in monastery in 19th century Russia? Was it jokes in 19th century Russia?

No, it was NOT!

NO!

It was censership!:liturgy:

Forgive me...
 
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paleodoxy

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Just one example: "gosh"

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary

gosh
1757, altered pronunciation of God. Probably from by gosse (mid-16c.).

According to the American Heritage Dictionary:

1) gosh.
...Used to express mild surprise or delight. Alteration of God....

According to Merriam-Webster

gosh
One entry found for gosh.
Main Entry: gosh
Pronunciation: 'gäsh, 'gosh
Function: interjection
Etymology: euphemism for God
-- used as a mild oath or to express surprise

As most commonly used, this is nothing more than a socially accepted form of blasphemy.

I grew up using this word, and I always allowed my children to use this word. But with knowledge comes responsibility. Things will change at my home, and I hope people will agree with Aria and me, that these words should at least be voluntarily avoided, and voluntarily banned by TAW members for TAW members.

I would like to register my agreement with the gist of this post and with Aria's attempt to weed out terminological usages that hail from etymologically sacrilegious traditions. God forgive me for having used, in the past, what I thought to be a seemingly innocent expression. As Protoevangeal said, ..."with knowledge comes responsibility." It is high time the Church recovered a higher sense of the Divine, and a greater sensitivity to and awareness of God's absolute Holiness.
 
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Protoevangel

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You are correct in that I missed a part of that definition. I still, however, dont' agree that "gosh" is God's name.

Ask yourself if you would feel comfortable adressing God as "Gosh." If you would honestly have no problems doing this (meaning you really believe 'gosh' is another name for God), I will never say that word around you again. But honestly, I don't think you would feel comfortable with it because gosh is now an expression and an exclamation rather than a name.
That's fine, I'm not the reality police. You could believe that the moon is made of cheese, and I couldn't do anything about that reality disconnect either.

Of course I'm not going to use gosh to refer to God. No way would I call Him by a name invented to make swearing in His name more "acceptable". Actually, that illustrates my point nicely. His name IS Holy. Why would you even want to go near the possibility of misusing that Holy name? I certainly don't.

But if your conscience is clean, who am I to judge you? I only hope it is something you will consider.
 
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Breaking Babylon

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More on Dorothea and I's last posts...

When I say goodness, good grief or good gravy[assuming that these are not offensive or a euphemism for God's Name], I'm also doing it only to express interest or shock. Not because I'm trying to edge around saying God's name in vain, simply because they're phrases I've grown up with which never meant more than shock or interest.

Of course, one could argue that growing up Hindu doesn't make Hinduism right, and that's true, but I'm trying to show my side of things.

Honestly, after all this, I don't know what to think of it. It seems otherworldly to me almost to think that Napoleon or Beaver or Opie were blaspheming. It seems to me like, in terms of blasphemy, Andy Griffith is no better than the Sopranos.

Times and cultures change...

I would love more input.
 
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Protoevangel

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What about "goodness"?

Honest question.
What can I say? I can see how goodness was God-ness, especially when used as goodness gracious or thank goodness. I would say, let your conscience be your guide. Are you using it flippantly, or in praise? If there is any question, I would not use it at all.*

I like OrthodoxyUSA's suggestion... "Try "Lord have mercy!", when you feel the urge."




* May God help me make my statement a reality in my life.
 
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paleodoxy

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How many of us honestly would correct a brother who at coffee hour said something like ' ...gee, I don't think that is what happened ...' ??

The bottom line is that these words have come to be exclamations on their own and divorced from their etymological past. Even if one was taught at some time to use them as a polite substitute (which I'll concede was the wrong thing to do at that time) chances are that there is no longer any Holy meaning attached to them now for either the transmitter or the receiver.

If this thread has run its course, and I am resurrecting a dead animal to everyone's chagrin...please let me know and I'll shut up. I haven't checked for new posts all day, and I'm just reacting to select statements.

First, allow me to qualify my last post and this post by simply asking you to separate the issue of mild substitutions for God's name from the issue of "cursing" or "cussing" (generically considered). My agreement with Aria and Protoevangel is limited to the former. Thus far, I have not even touched on the latter. I think they are separate questions, and I don't want to be misunderstood as adopting every jot and tittle sentiment from Aria's original posts in this thread.

Second, personally I support the idea of kindly asking and allowing individuals to voluntarily cut out the use of certain etymological substitutions for God's name. I am sensitive to the cultural issues here, and can appreciate the fact that many struggle to adopt a prohibitive posture regarding "innocent" expressions they have employed throughout the course of their own lives, apart from any sort of malevolent or willful intention to violate the Blessed and Holy Name that is above every name.

This is an issue of ongoing sanctification. People need to have the freedom to prayerfully contemplate the questions involved, reach opinions formed by spiritual knowledge, and implement changes at a pace that is commensurate with where they happen to be spiritually. We are all on a different plane in our walk, which is, in large part, shaped by our different backgrounds, experiences and influences.

I am not going to sit here from my perch on high, and declare which terms are appropriate (and only similar sounding), vs. those which are direct etymological substitutes for God - as I have not given this issue the profoundly thorough attention that it deserves.

Throughout my life, I have probably been more conscious and sensitive to avoiding vain usages of God's name than most I have been in personal contact with, although I am convicted that my inattention to the word 'gosh' is an exception to this, as I have made the unfortunate habit of invoking the word. 'Geez' is an example of a term I absolutely will never use.

To respond very briefly to the above poster I've quoted, I don't see how it is relevant to say that certain terms may have been detached from their original etymological expression, and therefore it is now ok to invoke what were once sacrilegious substitutions for God. God is eternal, and so His Son. One may detach words from their etymological founding by infusing them with fresh, self-declared meanings, but one can never ultimately detach those terms from the Name of which they were ultimately derived.

This is a separate issue from cursing, because frankly I think there are very appropriate (albeit extremely limited) times in which it would be perfectly fine - and even necessary - to use words such as s**t, d**n, f**k, et. al., when they are employed as a means of expressing righteous indignation over actions, behaviors, heresies, or what have you to strongly drive home a point. Evil, gross and peculiarly egregious ideas, rebellious actions, immoral behaviors, habitual sinful teachings or practices, etc. need to be identified for what they are. The descriptor should always mark the object with accuracy. A spade is a spade. Anything less is a lie and a whitewash.

(I am giving you my personal philosophy, and telling you how I approach these things in my life, and how I apply these principles spiritually. (I think there is biblical and historical support for this.) But I am NOT asking CF to change its rules.)

So anyway, all that to say this:

I agree with the majority posters here to the effect that it is inherently Pharisaical to bind others to obscurantist and doubtful standards rooted in the controversial etymological histories of words. On the other hand, the Pharisees were also known for ignoring the Spirit of the Law to the detriment and danger of their own souls. IMHO, the spiritual concern with respect to God's name still stands (regardless of the current etymological 'status' of a particular term). God and His Son were the occasion for the derivation of slang expressions (such as 'Gosh' and "Geez") intentionally designed to be phonetically congruent with their names. This was not an accident, and regardless of what we say about the current etymological understanding with regard to these, they can never be ultimately divorced from Him who was the occasion of their birth.

As I see it, both sides in this debate are making the same error of infusing and investing too much into the etymological questions -- to the extent that we have missed the much bigger issue.
 
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Guineverelyndy

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That's fine, I'm not the reality police. You could believe that the moon is made of cheese, and I couldn't do anything about that reality disconnect either.

Of course I'm not going to use gosh to refer to God. No way would I call Him by a name invented to make swearing in His name more "acceptable". Actually, that illustrates my point nicely. His name IS Holy. Why would you even want to go near the possibility of misusing that Holy name? I certainly don't.

But if your conscience is clean, who am I to judge you? I only hope it is something you will consider.

So it is His name, or isn't it? It's a little difficult to take His name in vain if it isn't His name and instead is a "name invented to make swearing in His name more acceptable." You just stated it is an invented name that you would never use to address God. Therefore, it I use it, I'm not taking His name in vain! Because it isn't His name, by your own admission.

Man, this forum makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Oh, and too late on judging me. You've insinuated that I'm a blasphemer, and that I'm a "so-called Christian."

I've said all I have to say. Goodbye.
 
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TrueHope

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What can I say? I can see how goodness was God-ness, especially when used as goodness gracious or thank goodness. I would say, let your conscience be your guide. Are you using it flippantly, or in praise? If there is any question, I would not use it at all.*

I like OrthodoxyUSA's suggestion... "Try "Lord have mercy!", when you feel the urge."




* May God help me make my statement a reality in my life.
In all honesty, that's what I say, in 2 languages when I am really going! And, if and when I do slip up, as I was a rebellious spirit for far too many years in my life, I am extremely aware of what I consider blasphemous out of my mouth...at that immediate second, then I am truly begging "Lord have mercy". It is human nature, we all have habitual sayings, many unthought of, because, well, "Everyone says them" and they are in our subconscious. But, my rules for me, are not another's for another. God had to point these things out to me, and I had to follow. Had man, I would have said, ase me, who are you to judge me. It is God who judges and we must look at ourselves and ask, how would He judge me on this behavior, this choice in language, this choice in reactions etc. Many people don't think of that. I am an extremely stubborn, set in my ways person with many things, and very open minded and relaxed about others....it is one's priority to choose, and pray upon topics such as this. Is it so important to one as it is to another? No, not all can agree, or the world would be filled with single minded robots. Now, saying that, it again, is the individuals walk with the Holy Trinity and how it convicts us. Do we respond, or do we rebel? Often we rebel, without even knowing, or noticing it. If this topic is bothering so many, to me, it looks like a tugging from the Holy Spirit...but that is my small opinion. Either way, it still is individual. In my house, I am the only one instilling the no swearing rules...which were the big rule up until last year....God only knows why others laxed on this rule in my house. But one day, our Lord will convict all of them, and me, on all my frustrated mistakes, which are quite often......the question should not be is it blasphemy, but upon reading it, did you feel a dope slap on your head. And not condemning one if their answer is no.
 
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Sothron

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I have decided on my own authority to insist that the real meaning of words like "peanut butter", "jam", "jelly" and "jackalope" now all really refer to God. Please desist in using such language. ;)

I think we need to step back here and look at things. If people say they do not use a word in the way you think it should be used then how does that put them in error? Those bland words are common venacular at this point with no ulterior motive attached. Frankly I never heard of anyone ever being offended by such 1950's television show verbage.

I hope I do not offend anyone but surely if this is causing this much unrest then is it worth the cost of being right?
 
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Sothron

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So I guess Good Gravy and Good Grief are out?

Apparently anything that shows surprise and starts with the letter "G" are some obscure reference to God that must not be allowed.

I would suggest one of my favorite sayings from the 49er days: con sarn it. Or ZOUNDS! which is in fact from Shakespeare. And that has to be ok. I think.
 
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TrueHope

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I have decided on my own authority to insist that the real meaning of words like "peanut butter", "jam", "jelly" and "jackalope" now all really refer to God. Please desist in using such language. ;)

I think we need to step back here and look at things. If people say they do not use a word in the way you think it should be used then how does that put them in error? Those bland words are common venacular at this point with no ulterior motive attached. Frankly I never heard of anyone ever being offended by such 1950's television show verbage.

I hope I do not offend anyone but surely if this is causing this much unrest then is it worth the cost of being right?
HEY, I say "Peanut butter and Jelly":yum: sometimes when I am holding back a raging bad word!!! Now, what can I say???;)
 
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Sothron

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I also have been made aware of words like "Zoinks!" such as Shaggy used in Scooby-Doo cartoons and "Sufferin' Succatash!", "Heavens to Mergatroid!" and "Well, I'll be..."

All may be used to express surprise or anger. When in doubt, turn to cartoons for inspiration.
 
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