Discussion of Mat 5:17-18

[ace of hearts]

Hello brother, thanks for your post but you did not address anything or any of the scriptures in the post you were quoting from accept provided your own words which disagrees with God's WORD. Did you want to try responding to the scriptures in the post that disagree with you? Sorry brother God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. As shown in posts # 3 and post # 4 above (linked) God's WORD disagrees with you. God's WORD does not teach God's LAW (10 commandments) is abolished. Please feel free to address the posts and all the scriptures in them that disagree with you. Our words do not make God's WORD dissappear. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and tradtions of men that break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4. JESUS says all those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

God's Sheep hear his Voice.

Still no response to anything I said in post 10.

 

[BobRyan]

Your entire post is off topic except your c&p re-post. .

So far that is your response to every post dealing with Matthew 5 and Christ's statement about fulfill.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective readers.

Your tactic of taking every inconvenient detail in Matthew 5 where Christ said he fulfilled the law and "responding that it is off topic" if it points out any flaw in one of your preferences -- is going to make this a short thread.

 

[ace of hearts]

So far that is your response to every post dealing with Matthew 5 and Christ's statement about fulfill.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective readers.

Bob the thread is about Mat 5:17-18. So when you say how instructive my posts are about your off topic parts of your post has no validity.

So would you care to address the OP? I'm not going down your rabbit trail derailment.

 

[ace of hearts]

With these thoughts in mind brother let's move through the scriptures of MATTHEW 5:17-29 slowly as they further show that none of God's Commandments have been abolished.

MATTHEW 5:17-29
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[21], You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[22], But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
[23], Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has ought against you;
[24], Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
[25], Agree with your adversary quickly, whiles you are in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison.
[26], Truly I say to you, You shall by no means come out there, till you have paid the uttermost farthing.
[27], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery:
[28], But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
[29], And if your right eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not that your whole body should be cast into hell.

[31], It has been said, Whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorce:
[32], But I say to you, That whoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery: and whoever shall marry her that is divorced commits adultery.

Yep Jesus is certainly referencing the 10 Commandment applying them to our very thoughts and feelings.

Thanks for your Scripture quote.

Now what does anything after verse 18 have to do with with verses 17 and 18? You didn't say.

............

NOTE: After stating that none of God's LAW (10 Commandments) have been abolished v17-19, Jesus then goes on to say; v20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus then goes on and amplifies the application of God's LAW to the heart (thoughts and feelings) which is the very root of sin saying that if we lust after women we are committing Adultery and being angry with your brother as murder from the 10 commandments as examples in v17-27.Jesus starts out by saying;

Jesus finishes by saying in v48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

NOTE: The application here in v19-32 changes to specifically focus now on God's 10 commandments where JESUS is saying whoever breaks any one of God's 10 Commandmetns shall be called the least in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN; that is by those already there. The least in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN are those who do not go there. The application of here of the 10 Commandments is shown in v20-22 and v32 where JESUS uses examples of the commandments he is referring to citing "YOU SHALL NOT KILL" and "COMMIT ADULTERY" which are two of God's 10 Commandments found in EXODUS 20:13-14. It is pretty clear here that if JESUS came to put an end to God's 10 Commandments he would not be teaching them and increasing their application to the inside out in verses 19-22 and verses 31-32.

All of which is off topic. Now you're going to say I won't discuss what you said. That would be incorrect because it's already been done in your threads. This thread has nothing to do with verses 19-32 that you want to discuss.

..............

CONCLUSION: JESUS did not come to destroy the law or the prophets he came to fulfill them. The are not fulfilled. Christs work on earth is fulfilled but not God's plan of salvation which is also written in the law and the prophets and Psalms. God's eternal law (the 10 Commandments) are not abolished and not to be broken.

I don't see how you get that from your discussion because your discussion is about us. Besides I never made the point nor implied Jesus came to destroy the law.

..............

Now we have had an overall look at MATTHEW 5:17 in context with the rest of the chapter to v32, lets focus our attention to MATTHEW 5:20.

[20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART.

Off topic. We've discussed this in other threads.

It is BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. We all have a sinful nature *ROMANS 7. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

Off topic again. The thread is about Mat 5:17-18, not us. Nothing in the OP is about how the law affects us.

If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

Off topic. There's no threat found in Mat 5:17-18. The passage is about Jesus and what He did or didn't do.

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

I gathered that is what you already said. I agree that Jesus didn't abolish the 4th commandment. But it's clear to my you either refuse to accept what Jesus actually accomplished or wish to derail the thread talking about us. Maybe your purpose is both.

RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9.

You're off topic again. But while I'm here our righteousness doesn't come from the law -

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

This isn't an invitation to derail the thread.

This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

This is also off topic. The thread is about Mat 5:17-18.

Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear.

So why haven't you responded to the Scriptures I posted? Do they disappear by ignoring them. It appears you think they do. I understand your undivided agenda.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Now where is the scripture that says God’s 4th Commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? There is no scripture is there? If there is no scriprture for this tradition why do you not believe God’s WORD?

You've yet to prove God's Word disagrees with me.
I didn't ask about Sunday in the OP. So you're still off topic.

This post completes my response to your complete post.

 

[ace of hearts]

Some more examples here of how JESUS fulfills the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law (Not God's ETERNAL LAW; 10 commandment) from the OLD COVENANT - law and the prophets and psalms.

As poster earlier in another thread Luke 24:44 disagrees with your interpretation brother. It is not saying God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) are abolished. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. It is saying that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

The Book of the law of MOSES *EXODUS 24:7 is not God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) *EXODUS 20:1-17 that in the NEW COVENANT give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11.

Yes Jesus kept what you call shadow laws. Jesus also kept the rest of the laws applicable to a male Jew like He said in Lk 24:44 referencing Mat 5:17-18.

The subject of the thread isn't about what the law does or doesn't do. So you're off topic.

Here let's look at some examples again through the scriptures showing the meaning of

LUKE 24:44. [44], And he said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Why do you think I always say to you if you do not understand what the shadow laws are from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD pointed to?

What has this got to do with the above verse? I've no idea why you think an individual needs to understand the OT for salvation. You've never to my recollection shown how this affects accepting Jesus as Savior. When the subject comes up in the Scripture there's nothing that requires this in any way.

The above isn't an invitation to derail the thread further. I'm being polite to you by the above.

What do you think the animal sacrifices pointed to and the earlthy Sanctuary and levitical priesthood pointed to? In regards to LUKE 24:44 you do know the Mosaic shadow laws, the prophets and Psalms all pointed to JESUS right as the coming Messiah e.g. *DANIEL 9:24-27; PSALMS 40; HEBREWS 10; PSALMS 22 etc etc...

How are you connecting this to Mat 5:17-18? Isn't what you're attempting to do is do away with part of the law? What does verse 18 say about that? I read no jots or tittles that you seem to disagree with.

Some (not exhaustive) more OLD testament scriptures of JESUS fulfilled in the new testament

[1] Messiah would be born of a woman. Genesis 3:15; Matthew 1:20; Galatians 4:4
[2] Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-6
[3] Messiah would be born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:22-23; Luke 1:26-31
[4] Messiah would come from the line of Abraham. Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Romans 9:5
[5] Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac. Genesis 17:19; Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:34
[6] Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob. Numbers 24:17 Matthew 1:2
[7] Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:33; Hebrews 7:14
[8] Messiah would be heir to King David's throne. 2 Samuel 7:12-13; Isaiah 9:7 Luke 1:32-33; Romans 1:3
[9] Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal. Psalm 45:6-7; Daniel 2:44 Luke 1:33; Hebrews 1:8-12
[10] Messiah would be called Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23
[11] Messiah would spend a season in Egypt. Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:14-15
[12] A massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace. Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16-18
13 A messenger would prepare the way for Messiah Isaiah 40:3-5 Luke 3:3-6
[14] Messiah would be rejected by his own people. Psalm 69:8; Isaiah 53:3; John 1:11; John 7:5
[15] Messiah would be a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:15; Acts 3:20-22
[16] Messiah would be preceded by Elijah. Malachi 4:5-6; Matthew 11:13-14
[17] Messiah would be declared the Son of God. Psalm 2:7; Matthew 3:16-17
[18] Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Isaiah 11:1; Matthew 2:23
[19] Messiah would bring light to Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2; Matthew 4:13-16
[20] Messiah would speak in parables. Psalm 78:2-4; Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:10-15; 34-35
[21] Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted. Isaiah 61:1-; Luke 4:18-19
[22] Messiah would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:5-6
[23] Messiah would be called King. Psalm 2:6; Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 27:37; Mark 11:7-11
[24] Messiah would be praised by little children. Psalm 8:2; Matthew 21:16
[25] Messiah would be betrayed. Psalm 41:9 Zechariah 11:12-13 Luke 22:47-48 Matthew 26:14-16
[26] Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field. Zechariah 11:12-13; Matthew 27:9-10
[27] Messiah would be falsely accused. Psalm 35:11; Mark 14:57-58
[28] Messiah would be silent before his accusers. Isaiah 53:7; Mark 15:4-5
[29] Messiah would be spat upon and struck. Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 26:67
[30] Messiah would be hated without cause. Psalm 35:19; Psalm 69:4; John 15:24-25
[31] Messiah would be crucified with criminals. Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27-28
[32] Messiah would be given vinegar to drink. Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34; John 19:28-30
[33] Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced. Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10; John 20:25-7
[34] Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed. Psalm 22:7-8; Luke 23:35
[35] Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments. Psalm 22:18 Luke 23:34; Matthew 27:35-36
[36] Messiah's bones would not be broken. Exodus 12:46; Psalm 34:20; John 19:33-36
[37] Messiah would be forsaken by God. Psalm 22:1; Matthew 27:46
[38] Messiah would pray for his enemies. Psalm 109:4 Luke 23:34
[39] Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side. Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34
[40] Messiah would be buried with the rich. Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60
[41] Messiah would resurrect from the dead. Psalm 16:10; Psalm 49:15 Matthew 28:2-7; Acts 2:22-32
[42] Messiah would ascend to heaven. Psalm 24:7-10 Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51
43 Messiah would be seated at God's right hand. Psalm 68:18; Psalm 110:1 Mark 16:19; Matthew 22:44
[44] Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:5-12 Romans 5:6-8 (source)

Brother the above are only some of many more. We haven't even started talking about CIRCUMCISION and some of the other SHADOW laws associated with the annual feast days, new moons and special ceremonial sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week (not God's 4th commandment) from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

Hope this helps to explain your question in relation to Luke 24:44

No problem. You're attempting to prove Christians are obligated to the law which isn't the subject of the thread.