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Featured Discussion moved from "End Times Fiction" thread

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Dave L, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Since there is no singular antecedent for an antichrist in Daniel chapter 9, you might consider the thread on end-time fiction...



    .
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture does not support this. No direct quotes from scripture = false prophecy.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I've been waiting for you to quote something saying the 70th week is complete.
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


    Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


    Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
    Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
    Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
    Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
    Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.


    Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
    Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
    Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
    Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
    Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


    Can anyone honestly deny that the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles?

    .
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Those verses don't say the 70th week is complete.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is complete because there is no gap. And no scripture directly saying a gap exists.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Dave, you came up with the standard. Therefore, by your standard, provide a bible passage that states the 70 weeks are complete. The apostles would have been living during the time which the theoretical completion of the 70 weeks would have taken place.

    If you can't - which you can't - the gap exists because there is an entire book in the bible that deals with the 70th week of Daniel 9 - Revelation. And Revelation is by Jesus Himself.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I need not prove the 70 weeks were contiguous. They would not be 70 weeks if they were not. You are the one facing the insurmountable task of proving they were not contiguous. And all of what you say relating to them is false prophecy until you do.
     
  9. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    So - you are saying that Irenaeus and Hippolytus were not representatives of the true church?

    I followed your link and found the pages almost unreadable.

    But I have already clearly demonstrated that Lowth very clearly and repeatedly stated that Israel would be both restored to her ancient homeland and restored to her God. I incorrectly listed the name of the thread where I did this. It is Dispensationalist Only - The Restoration of Israel, as Taught in the "Age of Enlightenment"
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  10. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The text of the Bible very clearly says that seventy weeks are determined. But it most definitely does not say that these seventy weeks are contiguous. You say that. The Bible does not.
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They would not be 70 weeks if not contiguous.
     
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    They do if you have eyes to see, because Daniel chapter 9 is the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the promise of the New Covenant found in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

    Why would anybody think the angel Gabriel failed to even mention the New Covenant?

    There is no singular antecedent for an antichrist in the chapter, and no "gap" of time was mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

    Daniel chapter 9 should be one of the greatest proofs of our faith, but it has been hijacked by those promoting their own man-made doctrines...


    ........................................

    From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

    Daniel 9:27

    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

    .
     
  13. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I avoid speculation about such things. I deal with facts, not opinions.

    Irenaeus also was not speculating. He was pointing out what the scriptures actually say, not what they might possibly be supposed to mean.
     
  14. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    This is manifestly false, on its face.
     
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Are you aware that the Jews use the same sort of argument to say that Jesus is not the messiah? They say that the Tanach says the messiah comes once not twice.

    Here we are at the closing moments of history, when Gog/Magog and the 70th week is about to begin - and you are stuck over the basics.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Try telling your bank there are 3 or 4 more zeros after the amount of the check you are trying to cash. It is dishonest and a lie to say 70 weeks have thousands of years added to them as Dispies do today,,,and counting.
     
  17. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The instructions in this section include every sacrifice specified as perpetual in the law of Moses, as well as most of the ordinances specified the same way.

    These include a renewal of the command to keep the “Sabbath,” as given in Ezekiel 44:24, Ezekiel 45:17, and Ezekiel 46:1-5 and 12. This had been commanded as “a perpetual covenant” with “the children of Israel” in Exodus 31:16. Again, in Ezekiel 45:21-25 we find the keeping of the “Passover,” with its accompanying “unleavened bread.” This had been commanded as “an everlasting ordinance” in Exodus 12:14 and 17, and “forever” in Exodus 12:24. In addition to these, we find the keeping of “the appointed feasts” in Ezekiel 46:9-11. These are detailed in Leviticus 23:4-43, where they are commanded to be kept “forever” in verses 14, 21, 31, and 41.

    The last of these “appointed feasts” was a command to “dwell in booths for seven days.” (Leviticus 23:42) This came to be called “the Feast of Tabernacles.” (John 7:2) This is not named in Ezekiel, but Zechariah 14:16-19 goes into some detail about it, saying that not only Israel, but all the surrounding nations, will come up to Jerusalem to keep it every year, and that every “family” that fails to come up to that feast will be severely punished, either by lack of rain or by plague, that is, by God himself.

    We find the same thing in the renewed laws of the priesthood. Ezekiel 44:15 explicitly limits this to “the sons of Zadok,” because he was the only priest that remained faithful “when the children of Israel went astray from” the Lord. Zadok’s descent from Aaron through Phineas is traced in 1 Chronicles 6:3-8. This is significant because the priesthood was given to Aaron and his sons “for a perpetual statute” in Exodus 29:9, and with “an everlasting priesthood” in Exodus 40:15. Then Aaron’s son Phineas and “his descendants after him” were additionally given “a covenant of an everlasting priesthood” in Numbers 25:13. So a future appointment of “the sons of Zadok” as priests is a fulfillment of this eternal pledge.

    Other perpetual laws about the priests are also repeated here. Their holy garments are mentioned in Ezekiel 42:14 and 44:17-19. These had been commanded to be worn “always” in Exodus 28:38 and as “a statute forever” in Exodus 28:43. Again, Ezekiel 44:21 says, “No priest shall drink wine when he enters the inner court.” This is the same as in Leviticus 10:9, where it is commanded as “a statute forever throughout your generations.” And Ezekiel 48:14 forbids them to sell their land. This might seem strange to us, but this was to preserve the land to them and their children for ever. This, again, is a repeat of what we find in Leviticus 25:32-34, where the priests could only sell their houses until “the Jubilee” (an equivalent of what we call a lease,) but they could not sell their land at all “for it is their perpetual possession.”

    Likewise, “every sacrifice of any kind,” including “the best of all firstfruits of any kind” were reserved as food for the priests in Ezekiel 44:29-30. These had been reserved as food for the priests as “a statute forever” in Exodus 29:28, Leviticus 6:18, 7:34 and 36, and 10:15, “as an ordinance forever” in Numbers 18:11 and 19, and “by a perpetual statute” in Leviticus 24:9.

    Thus we see that the commandments for this future worship repeat the perpetual ordinances originally given through Moses. But they are not a reinstitution of that law. For some of the laws here are different from those given through Moses. For instance, the daily “burnt offering” of a lamb every morning and every evening, with flour and oil, is commanded “continually” in Exodus 29:38 and 42, as well as “throughout your generations” in Exodus 29:42. This command is repeated in Ezekiel 46:13-15, but there it is only every morning, and the amount of flour and of oil is different.

    Another radical difference between this future worship and that under the law of Moses can be seen by referring to 1 Samuel 13. In this chapter Saul, God’s anointed king over Israel, offered up a burnt offering. “And Samuel said to Saul, ‘You have done foolishly. You have not kept the commandment of the LORD your God, which He commanded you. For now the LORD would have established your kingdom over Israel forever. But now your kingdom shall not continue. The LORD has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the LORD has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what the LORD commanded you.’” (1 Samuel 13:13-14) Under the law of Moses, offerings were not to be made by rulers, but by priests. Again, in 2 Chronicles 26:16-21, king Uzziah was struck with leprosy because he offered incense. But the law of this future temple will be different:

    “Then it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the New Moons, the Sabbaths, and at all the appointed seasons of the house of Israel. He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel.” (Ezekiel 45:17)

    As punishment for presuming to act as priests, Saul lost his kingdom and Uzziah was struck with leprosy. But as we noticed on page 216, this coming prince “shall be a priest on His throne.” (Zechariah 6:13)

    These clear and well defined differences between this future law and the one given by Moses are absolute proof that this was never intended to apply to a time before Jesus came. For when Jesus was here, He said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17-18) So, long after Ezekiel was given, Jesus himself said that not even the tiniest detail of the law would pass until He had fulfilled all of it.

    A further and very marked difference between this future worship and that in the old system is clearly stated in Jeremiah 3:16.

    “‘Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,’ says the LORD, ‘that they will say no more, “The ark of the covenant of the LORD.” It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.’”

    Some have made a great point of a need to find the ark, in order that prophecy can be fulfilled. But this scripture explicitly states that “the ark of the covenant of the LORD” will no longer even “come to mind,” much less be visited.
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So why do you side in with them on their other errors?
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Well, just provide the text from Daniel 9 of Gabriel doing so.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Well, I am not a dispensationalist, but no-one is claiming thousand of years have been added to the 70 weeks. It is still 70 weeks. The 70th week is forthcoming.
     
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