Discussion moved from "End Times Fiction" thread

[Douggg]

So why do you side in with them on their other errors?

It is your rationale that sides with the Jews (Judaism).

 

[Dave L]

Well, I am not a dispensationalist, but no-one is claiming thousand of years have been added to the 70 weeks. It is still 70 weeks. The 70th week is forthcoming.

70 + 000 = 70000

 

[Douggg]

70 + 000 = 70000

Wrong. 70 +000 = 70.000

No one is adding 2000 years to 70 years, anyway.

 

[Biblewriter]

Try telling your bank there are 3 or 4 more zeros after the amount of the check you are trying to cash. It is dishonest and a lie to say 70 weeks have thousands of years added to them as Dispies do today,,,and counting.

No one is even alleging that the seventy weeks have anything added to them. Saying that they are not contiguous is not saying that they are longer than the stated 70 weeks.

The hard fact is that, in the text of Daniel 9, the seventieth week is not even mentioned until after it clearly stated that the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. That happened considerably more that seven years after the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Dave L]

It is your rationale that sides with the Jews (Judaism).

No. They call for a physical kingdom as you do. Jesus says it is spiritual.

 

[Dave L]

Wrong. 70 +000 = 70.000

The point being weeks are measured units. If you add time to them you have more weeks.

 

[Dave L]

No one is even alleging that the seventy weeks have anything added to them. Saying that they are not contiguous is not saying that they are longer than the stated 70 weeks.

The hard fact is that, in the text of Daniel 9, the seventieth week is not even mentioned until after it clearly stated that the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. That happened considerably more that seven years after the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus.

Scripture directly saying a gap exist = a gap. No scripture = no gap.

 

[Biblewriter]

The point being weeks are measured units. If you add time to them you have more weeks.

And my point is that saying they are not contiguous is not adding to them. This is a hard fact that is beyond debate.
You are the one who is adding to scripture, by insisting that the meaning is that seventy contiguous weeks are determined.

 

[Dave L]

Wrong. 70 +000 = 70.000

No one is adding 2000 years to 70 years, anyway.

How so? We already have 2000+ years and counting. Totally contradicting what Gabriel said.

 

[Dave L]

And my point is that saying they are not contiguous is not adding to them. This is a hard fact that is beyond debate.
You are the one who is adding to scripture, by insisting that the meaning is that seventy contiguous weeks are determined.

You cannot say they are not contiguous unless scripture says so. And it says no such thing.

 

[Douggg]

No. They call for a physical kingdom as you do. Jesus says it is spiritual.

That's a half truth. The Kingdom of God is both spiritual and visible, to be the everlasting kingdom, in heaven, on this earth, and the world to come.

Is God invisible, visible, and everlasting? Yes.

 

[Biblewriter]

You cannot say they are not contiguous unless scripture says so. And it says no such thing.

As I already pointed out, this prophecy does not even mention the seventieth week until after it stated that the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. And this unquestionably did not happen within seven years of the time of our Lord.

But the Revelation clearly describes two different future periods of 3-1/2 years, 42 months, or 1260 days, which are all the same time period of half of a Jewish week. For a Jewish year was 12 months of 30 days each.

So a future fulfillment of the seventieth week is indeed distinctly stated in the very text of scripture. And this is true, regardless of when the Revelation was written.

 

[Jipsah]

Wrong. 70 +000 = 70.000

No one is adding 2000 years to 70 years, anyway.

Dispensationalist arithmetic

 

[Jipsah]

No one is even alleging that the seventy weeks have anything added to them. Saying that they are not contiguous is not saying that they are longer than the stated 70 weeks.

yep, the car will be paid off in five years. That’s four years, then a thousand year pause, then another year. Just ‘splain that to the repo man

The hard fact is that, in the text of Daniel 9, the seventieth week is not even mentioned until after it clearly stated that the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. That happened considerably more that seven years after the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus.[/QUOTE]

 

[BABerean2]

Well, just provide the text from Daniel 9 of Gabriel doing so.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

 

[Dave L]

As I already pointed out, this prophecy does not even mention the seventieth week until after it stated that the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed. And this unquestionably did not happen within seven years of the time of our Lord.

But the Revelation clearly describes two different future periods of 3-1/2 years, 42 months, or 1260 days, which are all the same time period of half of a Jewish week. For a Jewish year was 12 months of 30 days each.

So a future fulfillment of the seventieth week is indeed distinctly stated in the very text of scripture. And this is true, regardless of when the Revelation was written.

After the 62 weeks (69th week) = during the 70th week.

 

[Dave L]

That's a half truth. The Kingdom of God is both spiritual and visible, to be the everlasting kingdom, in heaven, on this earth, and the world to come.

Is God invisible, visible, and everlasting? Yes.

The kingdom is visible only by evidence proving it is present. It will never be a physical earthly kingdom of this world according to Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

It doesn't say he will confirm the new covenant with many.

 

[BABerean2]

It doesn't say he will confirm the new covenant with many.

What covenant did the Messiah of Daniel chapter 9 confirm?

.

 

[Douggg]

What covenant did the Messiah of Daniel chapter 9 confirm?

.

The prince who shall come - the Antichrist - will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle that Moses required of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

What covenant did Israel transgress that Daniel was praying about? Transgressed by worshiping other gods. The Antichrist will transgress the same covenant. The act is called the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:13.

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?