Discussing the new socialist manifesto (not a book)

GlabrousDory4

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Class warfare and racism is their central theme. It's interesting to note where you find one, you find all three most of the time:

Class warfare
Racism
Climate change.

Those all seem like legitimately bad things we should attempt to deal with!
 
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Speedwell

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Elizabeth Warren used to socialist dog whistle in her speech announcing her running for president:

to issue a call to action against wealthy power brokers who "have been waging class warfare against hardworking people for decades."​

Class warfare and racism is their central theme. It's interesting to note where you find one, you find all three most of the time:

Class warfare
Racism
Climate change.
You mean,
Class warfare
Racism
Denial of climate change.

Those three are frequently found in "wealthy power brokers."

But I don't put much emphasis on racism. Much of what is decried as racism is really a function of the class warfare; it just happens that minorities are easily identifiable members of the class which is being warred upon.
 
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hislegacy

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Kamala Harris:

Kamala Harris: Russia Influenced U.S. Elections Due to 'Racism, Sexism, Homophobia and Transphobia'

Harris also came out in support of a Green New Deal, a plan to address climate change and income inequality promoted by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.). In tweeting about it in December, Ocasio-Cortez wrote, “Our goal is to treat Climate Change like the serious, existential threat it is by drafting an ambitious solution on the scale necessary - aka a Green New Deal - to get it done.”

If it looks like class warfare, that is because, in some sense, it is—making the government more redistributive than it is now, and more redistributive than it was during the Barack Obama years.
 
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Speedwell

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Kamala Harris:

Kamala Harris: Russia Influenced U.S. Elections Due to 'Racism, Sexism, Homophobia and Transphobia'

Harris also came out in support of a Green New Deal, a plan to address climate change and income inequality promoted by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.). In tweeting about it in December, Ocasio-Cortez wrote, “Our goal is to treat Climate Change like the serious, existential threat it is by drafting an ambitious solution on the scale necessary - aka a Green New Deal - to get it done.”

If it looks like class warfare, that is because, in some sense, it is—making the government more redistributive than it is now, and more redistributive than it was during the Barack Obama years.
So I get it. You only dislike class warfare when the other side fights back.
 
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Pommer

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The 1%ers are just those folk who, through their tremendous hard work, (or winners of the “birth lottery”, born into the dominate-class, never having the need to worry about meeting their creature-needs, means that they are free to develop those skills their family equips them with), as such, materially, they get the sweetest deal in our society.

Then, every once in a while, the bottom 99% would like a day off from having to worry about staying alive, wondering how they’re going to keep this frantic pace of life going...
If only there were a giant pile of money somewhere!
Well, it turns out that there is, the 1%-ers...they’ve been charged by our society to vouchsafe our resources, our wealth.

We should tap this resource when it is necessary and only when it is necessary.

For the 1%-ers the “necessary time” will never come, therefore they will fight the idea tooth-and-nail, until they see the wisdom of allowing us to help ourselves to “their” wealth, which we gave them (Reagan, BushII, Trump Tax-cuts) to keep for us until we needed.
It’s becoming time that we need it.
 
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rambot

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The dichotomy of the US is so interesting to me. You guys have, likely, some of the smartest people in the world, studying, researching and informing you; Even the smartest folks worldwide travelling to GET to you.. You have the most unbelievable research facilities.
You could, literally, be doing almost anything.

But the stupids just drag you all down. Draaaaaaag yooou aaaaalllll dooooooown.

Europe, whose brainpower is dwarfed by yours is MILES ahead of you in implementing progressive policies and ideas. You could be SOOOO far ahead of them. Countries around the world could aspire to be like you for reasons other than your tremendous wealth. But....

I'm just speaking in BROAD terms here.

Is AOC's plan ambitious, pie in the sky, BARELY a reality. Yep. It's pretty nutzo.
But again, the greatness of America means that it is definitely doable. But you all would have to be on board and see the usefulness of listening to intelligent people and high tech designs. Sadly, I simply cannot imagine that is going to happen.
 
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USincognito

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AGREED! AOC is the biggest threat to DEMOCRACY and, dare I say, WESTERN CIVILIZATION that has EVER been detected by the Right!

We must watch her EVERY SINGLE MOVE AND UTTERANCE! Let us track not just her policies but her clothing choices!

We CANNOT OVERSTATE THE TREAT!

This Ocasio-Cortez Level 5!

AOC laughing.jpg
 
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Gigimo

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Class warfare
Racism
Climate change.

That's what happens when you kick the white working class to the curb, you somehow have to find a way to get enough "victim" votes and that seems to be the path most traveled presently.
 
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KCfromNC

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for the sake of this thread - we will be using the following definitions:

so·cial·ism:
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Manifesto:
: a written statement declaring publicly the intentions, motives, or views of its issuer

The latest release of such policies and proposals is the New Green Deal,

Can you enumerate 5 way in which this advocates for the government seizing ownership of private businesses?
 
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KCfromNC

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The mayor of NYC recently said:

Brothers and sisters, there’s plenty of money in the world. There’s plenty of money in this city. It’s just in the wrong hands,”
But whose money is it? and how do you get their money?
Unless it is by the government taking ownership of private businesses, seems off-topic for this thread.
 
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KCfromNC

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OK, I agree that some socialistic concepts have been adopted over the years, but we are now seeing leaders in one of the two major political parties committed, openly, to the idea of Socialism. This does not mean that every person who votes for them is a Socialist or even knows what Socialism is (absolutely not that), but things are moving swiftly in that direction and it has been observed by many commentators that the senior figures in the party are afraid to oppose these naive activists or even criticize Antifa, for instance, lest that disaffect the millennials who have supported the party in recent years and see a lot of this as their generation's cause -- free everything.
Again, another post worrying about SOCIALISM! but not actually mentioning which businesses are going to be taken over by the government. Weird.
 
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KCfromNC

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It's interesting to note where you find one, you find all three most of the time:

Class warfare
Racism
Climate change.

What's also interesting is what you don't find : collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Which again makes this off topic for the thread.
 
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LoAmmi

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Again, another post worrying about SOCIALISM! but not actually mentioning which businesses are going to be taken over by the government. Weird.

Right wing translator running... analyzing....


Socialism = all bad things.
 
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KCfromNC

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Right wing translator running... analyzing....


Socialism = all bad things.
Given how scary it appears that some are addressing, say, mistreatment of minorities, I can only imagine how terrifying it would be if actual SOCIALISM! showed up. People would be falling over in the streets. Luckily we'd have universal heath care, at least.
 
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LoAmmi

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That's what happens when you kick the white working class to the curb, you somehow have to find a way to get enough "victim" votes and that seems to be the path most traveled presently.

I'm going to disagree. Republicans pushed for things like free trade, union busting, and other things which hurt the working class. Jobs moved overseas, people lost collective bargaining, wages stayed stagnant. What happened is that Democrats embraced things like gay rights, abortion rights, and the like and white working class folks decided that was a bridge too far and went with those opposed to those things, regardless of any damage they felt economically.
 
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LoAmmi

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Given how scary it appears that some are addressing, say, mistreatment of minorities, I can only imagine how terrifying it would be if actual SOCIALISM! showed up. People would be falling over in the streets. Luckily we'd have universal heath care, at least.

Hey, if people can be convinced that the Nazis were socialists and atheists, despite Hitler hating both of those groups, they can be convinced of anything!
 
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essentialsaltes

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Long and short of it, the manifesto is pushing to have the federal government control virtually every avenue of life, from birth, to schooling, from health care to wages, to housing and climate.

It calls for one of the most complete governmental control over just about everything.

Which point(s) of the New Green Deal would be forbidden by Article I Section 8?

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce...

Which point(s) of the New Green Deal calls for collective ownership of one or more industries?
 
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Sparagmos

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Long and short of it, the manifesto is pushing to have the federal government control virtually every avenue of life, from birth, to schooling, from health care to wages, to housing and climate.

It calls for one of the most complete governmental control over just about everything.

Here is the question (at least one of them), are you comfortable giving up that much control?
You have an odd idea of “control.”
I don’t find that current government programs like Medicare and social security cause people to be “controlled.” In fact, in a democracy, when the government does something it means that WE THE PEOPLE are in control of it. Currently, I have no control over the cost, or people’s access to higher education. I have no control over fossil fuel companies whose only motivation is profit. I have no say in pharmaceutical prices.
 
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Sparagmos

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The mayor of NYC recently said:

Brothers and sisters, there’s plenty of money in the world. There’s plenty of money in this city. It’s just in the wrong hands,”
But whose money is it? and how do you get their money?
It’s money that was stolen from the working class who have not been properly compensated for the goods they produce.
 
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Sparagmos

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