Discipleship - What does it look like in the church?

[PloverWing]

I went to a diocesan meeting last night, as a delegate from our parish. Clergy and lay representatives were there, representing about 20-30 churches, and the bishop was present as well.

The theme of the meeting was envisioning our parishes as schools of discipleship. We did an exercise where we brainstormed about what that might mean, and we came up with words like "prayer", "fellowship", "inclusiveness", "Bible study", "multigenerational events", and so on. All of these are fine things, representing values that we do hold, but - in the end, it all felt very vague to me, like we hadn't pinned down what "discipleship" means.

I know what it means in other fields to develop a "discipline". In music, you practice scales and arpeggios and sight reading and specific instrumental techniques. In martial arts, you practice particular strikes and blocks and stances and so on. In computer science, you practice writing certain kinds of programs and using certain mathematical techniques.

What is it in Christianity? Say that I did have a parish of 100 people who want to learn the "discipline" of the Christian religion, and our church wanted to "disciple" them. What does this mean? What would we train them to learn or practice or do? I'm guessing it would be partly inner spiritual practices (prayer, contemplation, etc.), partly a cultivation of attitudes and actions of service to others, partly study of the Bible and theology, and partly a practice of worship in our liturgical/sacramental tradition. But I can't yet make it more specific than that. What does your parish do when you set out to do "discipleship"?

(For now, I'm posting in the STR forum, because that's the kind of church I'm in. I welcome posters from other denominations/churches -- I think there are other churches that do a better job of discipleship than we do, and I'd like to hear ideas -- but please don't try to talk me out of being Episcopalian. I'm trying to improve my parish, not change to a different faith group.)

 

[NeedyFollower]

I went to a diocesan meeting last night, as a delegate from our parish. Clergy and lay representatives were there, representing about 20-30 churches, and the bishop was present as well.

The theme of the meeting was envisioning our parishes as schools of discipleship. We did an exercise where we brainstormed about what that might mean, and we came up with words like "prayer", "fellowship", "inclusiveness", "Bible study", "multigenerational events", and so on. All of these are fine things, representing values that we do hold, but - in the end, it all felt very vague to me, like we hadn't pinned down what "discipleship" means.

I know what it means in other fields to develop a "discipline". In music, you practice scales and arpeggios and sight reading and specific instrumental techniques. In martial arts, you practice particular strikes and blocks and stances and so on. In computer science, you practice writing certain kinds of programs and using certain mathematical techniques.

What is it in Christianity? Say that I did have a parish of 100 people who want to learn the "discipline" of the Christian religion, and our church wanted to "disciple" them. What does this mean? What would we train them to learn or practice or do? I'm guessing it would be partly inner spiritual practices (prayer, contemplation, etc.), partly a cultivation of attitudes and actions of service to others, partly study of the Bible and theology, and partly a practice of worship in our liturgical/sacramental tradition. But I can't yet make it more specific than that. What does your parish do when you set out to do "discipleship"?

(For now, I'm posting in the STR forum, because that's the kind of church I'm in. I welcome posters from other denominations/churches -- I think there are other churches that do a better job of discipleship than we do, and I'd like to hear ideas -- but please don't try to talk me out of being Episcopalian. I'm trying to improve my parish, not change to a different faith group.)

I think you hit the nail on the head . Jesus said to go make disciples of all nations , teaching them to observe all that He commanded . The issue we face is maybe the same as the apostle Paul when he said ...you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, but not many fathers . The cost to make disciples is all encompassing . How did Jesus make disciples ? Well it cost Him his life (even before the Crucifixion ) How about Paul and Timothy ? Again , they gave up their lives .
The issue at hand is we have all been discipled by the world so before we can make disciples , we have to unlearn much of what the world has taught us to pursue . There is no book ( apart from the bible ) that is a "how to" per se . I do not think spending an hour or 4 a week with Godly people at a church setting and then the rest of the time immersed in the same enjoyments and pursuits with the world will produce anything. Proverbs says that he who walks with wise men will be wise but the companion of fools will be destroyed . If you are able to find some sincere believers who understand the eternally dreadful consequences of getting it wrong and the eternal joys of bringing others into the Kingdom , then encourage sobriety of mind ...a dedicated prayer life .. daily pursuit of God's will ...exclusions of the frivolities which those who know not Christ pursue . Not any easy question you asked . Nor an easy answer .

 

[bekkilyn]

We are just at the start of doing some work on Discipleship in my churches, so I am very interested in this thread as I am also looking for more ideas.

Below I've linked a United Methodist specific article from our conference titled Becoming Disciples:

Becoming Disciples – The United Methodist Church

There may be some differences in the Anglican church, but I'm thinking the basic concept would be similar if not the same, but maybe it can be of some help.

 

[Dave-W]

Discipleship is Jewish

 

[bekkilyn]

Discipleship is Jewish

We discussed something like this during a "vision session" in one of my churches a couple of weeks ago. The idea was that a disciple is someone who is like, or imitates, the teacher, and for Christians, our teacher is Jesus, so a disciple would be one who becomes like Jesus in practically every way. I liked the way the article you linked stated that Jesus didn't say to make converts, but to make disciples, being that there is a difference between the two.

 

[seeking.IAM]

OP interchanges the words "Discipleship" and "Discipline." I think the two mean different things and easily can be be confused. I agree that discipleship involves discipline, although I think discipline is far broader than that.

I think discipleship is following in the way of Jesus, and putting one's faith into action. The first act of discipleship is obedience. When calling disciples, Jesus approached a couple of fishermen and said "follow me." They did, seemingly with no questions asked. That's obedience, pure and simple.

We are to do likewise and be obedient to the teaching and ways of Jesus. Others should be able to see the mark of that in our lives as a living witness by what we think, say, & do. I believe a lot of disillusion with the Church is because many people can't see discipleship in its Christians. Or as Ghandi said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

 

[Paidiske]

I think part of the reason it's a bit vague is that it's different for everyone.

So, for example, I have two young adults who started coming to my church at about the same time. They're about the same age; they're both tertiary educated and reasonably bright. But that's where the similarities stop.

One is a pastor's daughter who's been raised in a fairly abusive environment and is trying to salvage what is good about her parents' faith from the way they treated her and her siblings, and as part of that, has shifted denomination. There's some really difficult and complex pastoral stuff there.

Another is a guy who's never been to church before but is now coming because his new love interest is a Christian. He has lots of questions, is open-minded and willing to explore, is thinking about baptism, but also has some pretty big and complex issues of his own to do with relationships and his health, as well as a healthy wariness about whether the church is actually a safe and sane place.

One has a pretty well developed prayer life; and one has none. One has a very good knowledge of the Scripture, but is learning to read it in a non-fundamentalist way; one has been given his very first Bible by me. One finds hymns really difficult because she's never sung them before, but only modern praise-band type stuff; one finds hymns represent a sense of tradition and stability he finds appealing. One has lots of history in various areas of service to the community; one has no idea how he could contribute in that way.

And so on. There's no one-size-fits-all for that. I have to take the time to get to know each person and offer whatever wisdom and suggestions and opportunities I can that seem right for each.

And when we realise that's true for each person we might want to disciple, we realise that there isn't a neat set of boxes to be ticked in order. There are some things we'd want everyone to have; baptism, communion, participation in parish life in various ways, but the shape that takes is going to be unique to each person.

 

[Job3315]

I went to a diocesan meeting last night, as a delegate from our parish. Clergy and lay representatives were there, representing about 20-30 churches, and the bishop was present as well.

The theme of the meeting was envisioning our parishes as schools of discipleship. We did an exercise where we brainstormed about what that might mean, and we came up with words like "prayer", "fellowship", "inclusiveness", "Bible study", "multigenerational events", and so on. All of these are fine things, representing values that we do hold, but - in the end, it all felt very vague to me, like we hadn't pinned down what "discipleship" means.

I know what it means in other fields to develop a "discipline". In music, you practice scales and arpeggios and sight reading and specific instrumental techniques. In martial arts, you practice particular strikes and blocks and stances and so on. In computer science, you practice writing certain kinds of programs and using certain mathematical techniques.

What is it in Christianity? Say that I did have a parish of 100 people who want to learn the "discipline" of the Christian religion, and our church wanted to "disciple" them. What does this mean? What would we train them to learn or practice or do? I'm guessing it would be partly inner spiritual practices (prayer, contemplation, etc.), partly a cultivation of attitudes and actions of service to others, partly study of the Bible and theology, and partly a practice of worship in our liturgical/sacramental tradition. But I can't yet make it more specific than that. What does your parish do when you set out to do "discipleship"?

(For now, I'm posting in the STR forum, because that's the kind of church I'm in. I welcome posters from other denominations/churches -- I think there are other churches that do a better job of discipleship than we do, and I'd like to hear ideas -- but please don't try to talk me out of being Episcopalian. I'm trying to improve my parish, not change to a different faith group.)

I think the main thing will be to teach God loves us and how He demonstrated it through Jesus. Then, learn the will of the Father, which is to live like Jesus.

When I realized God loves me, like truly loves me through Jesus, that He is not mad any more, that I can hear Him and that He talks, that I can do greater things than Jesus, and when I realized God loves everyone and He wants everyone to be saved, healed and delivered, I started simply loving everyone and praying for them.

Listen to Dan Mohler on YouTube, it changed my life!

 

[everbecoming2007]

I went to a diocesan meeting last night, as a delegate from our parish. Clergy and lay representatives were there, representing about 20-30 churches, and the bishop was present as well.

The theme of the meeting was envisioning our parishes as schools of discipleship. We did an exercise where we brainstormed about what that might mean, and we came up with words like "prayer", "fellowship", "inclusiveness", "Bible study", "multigenerational events", and so on. All of these are fine things, representing values that we do hold, but - in the end, it all felt very vague to me, like we hadn't pinned down what "discipleship" means.

I know what it means in other fields to develop a "discipline". In music, you practice scales and arpeggios and sight reading and specific instrumental techniques. In martial arts, you practice particular strikes and blocks and stances and so on. In computer science, you practice writing certain kinds of programs and using certain mathematical techniques.

What is it in Christianity? Say that I did have a parish of 100 people who want to learn the "discipline" of the Christian religion, and our church wanted to "disciple" them. What does this mean? What would we train them to learn or practice or do? I'm guessing it would be partly inner spiritual practices (prayer, contemplation, etc.), partly a cultivation of attitudes and actions of service to others, partly study of the Bible and theology, and partly a practice of worship in our liturgical/sacramental tradition. But I can't yet make it more specific than that. What does your parish do when you set out to do "discipleship"?

(For now, I'm posting in the STR forum, because that's the kind of church I'm in. I welcome posters from other denominations/churches -- I think there are other churches that do a better job of discipleship than we do, and I'd like to hear ideas -- but please don't try to talk me out of being Episcopalian. I'm trying to improve my parish, not change to a different faith group.)

My parish has prayer groups, meditation, studies, discussions. All of these in their own way impart a sense of how to go about being a disciple and how to love God, but I'm not sure we talk about it in those terms. I participate in a book discussion group. Some participants are unchurched, and I speak often on theology and spirituality.

But I have my own way of discipleship. I lean on the sacraments. I pray at set times as time and circumstances permit, in a structured way, as I have for years. I fellowship with friends to talk about God, theology, and spirituality.

In daily life I turn my love toward God, and from there I go about my life teaching others the faith in a way they can understand and relate to, churched and unchurched alike, from a variety of religious backgrounds. I visit one in jail. I talk about the love of God, tradition, sacraments, and liturgy.

I show kindness to those I meet, especially to the vulnerable and rejected in society and the unchurched and those wounded by the church. I know that I may be the only means by which that one soul can perceive in their lives a ray of the love of God at that time. Every moment is priceless, an opportunity to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, and to intercede and travail for the salvation of others.

Love of God and love of neighbor. This is at the heart of our calling to discipleship, and there are a multitude of ways to express it as best suits each person's circumstances and salvation.

We may live small and hidden lives, some of us, but they are not hidden from our Lord, nor those to whom we minister out of the charity engrafted in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

 

[PloverWing]

Thanks, everyone, for your insights. As I've reflected, I think part of the problem for me is that "disciple" is one of those church words that I never use outside of church, so I don't have a genuine intuition for what the word means. It's a bit like those parables that tell me that God is like a shepherd, or a king, or that prayer is like nagging a judge at his home: I've never met a shepherd or lived in a country with a king, and if I show up at a judge's house to harass them, I'm likely to get arrested. Those metaphors are so far from my experience that they don't help much.

@Dave-W 's linked article helps with this. (Thanks, Dave!) The model of discipleship there is also outside my experience, but it at least explains the metaphor. Maybe the closest modern parallel is my relationship with the chief instructor at my karate school who's trained me for the last decade -- but even there, I only imitate his martial arts techniques; I don't imitate how he eats dinner or puts on his shoes.

We've also got the problem of being really far removed from Jesus in time, so I have no idea how he ate dinner or put on his sandals. More importantly, we have only glimpses of how he prayed, how he spoke to his friends, how he conducted his family life. I guess the idea of discipleship is that we do the best we can to imitate the life and teachings of Jesus, based on what was written about him in the New Testament.

I suppose one possibility is (again, paralleling the karate school) a chain of disciples, where A was a disciple of Jesus, and B was a disciple of A, and C a disciple of B, down through the centuries. And that's sort of how it goes; the only Christians whose daily lives we can imitate are those who are alive now. But "disciple" starts to be an overly strong word. Our current parish priest is great, but if I think of myself as his "disciple", that's putting an awful lot of responsibility on the head of one overworked, fallible human being.

Maybe I'm overthinking. Maybe "discipleship" is just church-ese for "living the Christian life", and I should just do that translation in my head and quit obsessing.

 

[bekkilyn]

However, we aren't necessarily far removed from Jesus the Christ, as he is right now, so perhaps discipleship isn't so much a matter of imitating the life of someone who (as a human) lived a couple thousand years ago, but instead progressing towards being conformed to Christ in the here and now. I suppose to exterior effect may be "living a Christian life" but I view it more as a matter of heart and mind.

 

[Paidiske]

But "disciple" starts to be an overly strong word. Our current parish priest is great, but if I think of myself as his "disciple", that's putting an awful lot of responsibility on the head of one overworked, fallible human being.

Our current model of ministry is not the same as discipleship, and you're quite right, it's not the relationships our clergy are expected to have with their parishioners. The closer parallel, actually, would be when the parish has an ordinand on field placement, and there is a bit more of the "model yourself on this person and their ministry" thing going on.

But I think there is discipling amongst the laity. I think back to when I was a young adult in the church for the first time, and looking up to older folks in the parish who were prayerful, humble, with hearts to serve etc. And seeing them as an example of what I was called to grow into.

We don't have to put everything on the shoulders of the clergy when our pews are full of such beautiful saints.